topic Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me? in Credit Cards

How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

MS00000000 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:31:13 GMT

I recently opened a few new cards, and although one was an Amex that was backdated to 1995, the others caused my AAoA to drop to 6 years and it lowered my EQ from the high 690's (don't remember exact score) to 683. I want to purchase a vehicle before the end of the year, but I am hoping to increase my scores enough that I get the best possible interest rate on the auto loan. My basic credit picture is as follows:

Chase Amazon Rewards Visa CL $1000 (opened in 2005)
Local CU Visa Rewards CL $10,000 (opened in August 2010)
Amex TrueEarnings CL $2000 (opened in August 2010, but reporting as opened August 1995)
Home Depot Store Card CL $1000 (opened in August 2010)
Best Buy Reward Zone Mastercard CL $500 (opened in August 2010)

I also have a mortgage that is not yet reporting, 1 paid medical collection that is just over 2 years ago, 1 30-day late from over 3 years ago, and a couple of closed credit card accounts still showing, and a PIF installment loan for my last auto still showing.

My utilization is currently 8%, and while some of the cards listed above have reported a balance, I have and will continue to PIF with the exception of the Home Depot card, which I just used with a no interest promo that will be paid off over the next 6 months. Since the Amex is still new, I haven't been able to pay the unbilled charges yet, but will do so as soon as the system will allow me to, which should be in about a week and before the statement date. As of today the Amex is at 75% utilization, so I would not apply until after I am able to pay that down sometime next week. All cards should report with zero balance except for Home Depot.

I have 5 hard inquiries on each EX and EQ and 2 on TU. I've been looking at the Amex cards exclusively, because I really just want to get one to increase my scores and I know they will backdate the account. But, the Costco TrueEarnings card was one of the first cards I was approved for last month and I think I only had 1-2 inq on EX and EQ at the time, and only one other new account that was probably not reporting at the time.

Does anyone have any advice on whether I should wait before apping for another Amex card, and if so, how long I should wait? Also, what card might serve me best in general? I thought a charge card might also help my score rather than another revolver. I have seen a lot of comments about people getting the Zync, and it has the lowest annual fee of the charge cards as well. Also, is this a solid plan for increasing the scores, or should I maybe be doing something different?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

Creditaddict — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:33:39 GMT

I would wait at least 6 months as you have a lot of new accounts.

Once you get a card like Amex, I probably would have skipped the Best Buy MC, it won't grow like your other cards

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

Ron1 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:35:10 GMT

I wait for six months to apply for Blue after getting Costco Amex last year. Amex Zync is a good card to have. I used it a lot on dining.

Ron.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

MS00000000 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:37:27 GMT

@Creditaddict wrote:
I would wait at least 6 months as you have a lot of new accounts.
Once you get a card like Amex, I probably would have skipped the Best Buy MC, it won't grow like your other cards

Yes, I hear you loud and clear on the BBRZ MC. The only reason I got that was because I have a couple of utility bills that allow payment by MC, but no other types of credit cards and I thought I'd get a few little rewards for using a card like that to pay those specific bills each month.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

MS00000000 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:52:23 GMT

So that's two votes for waiting 6 months. Unfortunately, that plan won't help me get the AAoA up before the end of the year. Do you think Amex would decline me, or would I risk some sort of hassle from them on the card I already have? I could live with a decline, but don't want to rock the boat with the current card.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

Creditaddict — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:55:45 GMT

I would go a 70/30 chance of being declined for another amex credit card BUT I would give you a 95% approval on a charge card and if all your trying to do is get your AA up then it doesn't matter what kind of amex you open you just need the backdate, so get the gold free for first year and next year close it if you don't want to pay for it

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

MS00000000 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:04:17 GMT

@Creditaddict wrote:
I would go a 70/30 chance of being declined for another amex credit card BUT I would give you a 95% approval on a charge card and if all your trying to do is get your AA up then it doesn't matter what kind of amex you open you just need the backdate, so get the gold free for first year and next year close it if you don't want to pay for it

Is the Gold easier to get than the Zync? I was thinking I'd keep whatever charge card I was approved for open, so the $25 AF seemed easier to swallow.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

Ron1 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:20:40 GMT

Do you need to have another Amex now? They might close your Costco Amex account or request additional financial document (F/R). I would wait six months if I were you.

Ron.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

MS00000000 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:32:52 GMT

@Ron1 wrote:
Do you need to have another Amex now? They might close your Costco Amex account or request additional financial document (F/R). I would wait six months if I were you.

Ron.

I am just trying to get my AAoA higher than 6 yrs before the end of this year to get a lower interest rate on an auto loan. I see no other way to do that besides adding another Amex that is backdated. Suggestions on alternate ways of doing this are welcome, but that's the only thing that seemed plausible.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

Creditaddict — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:41:47 GMT

Zync is probably easiest

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

Ron1 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:43:09 GMT

You may want to wait to apply for another Amex after getting auto loan.

Ron.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

Creditaddict — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:43:12 GMT

The fact you started with the credit card vs charge and were approved, I don't see any negative to add a charge card, amex loves to give out charge cards more than credit cards

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

haulingthescoreup — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 21:03:52 GMT

Have you crunched the numbers to see what a third AmEx with an opening date of 1995 will do to your AAoA? Remember to add the ages of every account on each report (one report at a time), whether open or closed, from the opening month and year to this year.

What was it before the new cards? In other words, it dropped from what to what?

I would be surprised to see much of a points loss in going from 8 years AAoA, for instance, to 6 years. Depends on what it was when it started. You don't lose points in just dropping a year or two, unless it drops you into a new history range, for instance, under 2 years, 2 years to under 5 years, 5 years to under maybe 8 or 9 years, etc. (Lots of debate about the break points beyond 2 and 5 years.)

I think what you're actually being hit for is the presence of 3 brand-spanking-new accounts on your reports, rather than the drop in AAoA. You should slowly regain points over the coming months, but it's generally more like 6 months before you are back to where you were before. Not necessarily, but in most cases.

You might have your points back by the end of the year; you might not. How cast iron is it that you must get an auto loan at the end of the year? In other words, would February 2011 work?

Again, you might get your points back by the end of the year just from the new accounts aging. But I'm not convinced that another AmEx will do the trick.

Granted, an additional back-dated AmEx won't show as a new account, but I also don't think that you're going to get any significant point increase simply for increased AAoA.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

MS00000000 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:05:32 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
Have you crunched the numbers to see what a third AmEx with an opening date of 1995 will do to your AAoA? Remember to add the ages of every account on each report (one report at a time), whether open or closed, from the opening month and year to this year.

What was it before the new cards? In other words, it dropped from what to what?

I would be surprised to see much of a points loss in going from 8 years AAoA, for instance, to 6 years. Depends on what it was when it started. You don't lose points in just dropping a year or two, unless it drops you into a new history range, for instance, under 2 years, 2 years to under 5 years, 5 years to under maybe 8 or 9 years, etc. (Lots of debate about the break points beyond 2 and 5 years.)

I think what you're actually being hit for is the presence of 3 brand-spanking-new accounts on your reports, rather than the drop in AAoA. You should slowly regain points over the coming months, but it's generally more like 6 months before you are back to where you were before. Not necessarily, but in most cases.

You might have your points back by the end of the year; you might not. How cast iron is it that you must get an auto loan at the end of the year? In other words, would February 2011 work?

Again, you might get your points back by the end of the year just from the new accounts aging. But I'm not convinced that another AmEx will do the trick.

Granted, an additional back-dated AmEx won't show as a new account, but I also don't think that you're going to get any significant point increase simply for increased AAoA.

It was at 9 something before the new cards, and is 6 something now. Adding an additional AMEX would bring it back up to 8 something if my math is correct. You might be correct that the drop is due to the new accounts though. I was basing my theory on the "What's hurting your score" section that just now indicated a short credit history where it never indicated that previously.

Was planning on the end of the year for the auto loan because dealers are dumping cars like crazy for year end numbers, so February wouldn't be as ideal as far as the price of the car I don't think. It's not set in stone that I have to get one though. I was actually preparing for this at the end of last year and realized it would be stupid to buy a car when I didn't have a house yet, so I worked on getting the house instead. Now that the new year has rolled around, I'm looking at the car again.

I'll crunch the numbers one more time and see what the AAoA would be after adding another backdated Amex and see if it's over 8 or not, but I think it would be. If the Amex is backdated, would the FICO scoring still consider it a new account even though it shows the age back to 1995? That seems odd, but I'm new to the whole FICO game so I am not surprised at anything with the scoring.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

haulingthescoreup — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:15:58 GMT

Worth running the numbers. Wow, that was a heckuva drop, from 9 to 6!

No, a newly added back-dated AmEx account would not be regarded as a new account. In fact, I'm not even sure that people get a Scorewatch alert for this, although I've heard both ways.

It's possible that your points loss breaks out to something like 3-5 points for getting rebucketed to 5 - under 9 years AAoA (if indeed that's a new score bucket), and the rest was for the new accounts. You might well have your points back in time.

I don't know if you're familiar with the "util game", where you time your CC payments to tweak maximum points from your FICO's. Since you're aiming for a specific score, it would be worth doing this. You should aim for having only one CC reporting a balance when your score is pulled for a loan, and that balance should be some token amount like $20 or so. It can take a while to get cards to line up and behave for this, so I wouldn't wait until the very last minute. Be sure to have one reporting a balance. I lost 12 points a couple weeks ago on EQ for going from 1 card with a balance to none.

Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

MS00000000 — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 05:04:47 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
Worth running the numbers. Wow, that was a heckuva drop, from 9 to 6!

No, a newly added back-dated AmEx account would not be regarded as a new account. In fact, I'm not even sure that people get a Scorewatch alert for this, although I've heard both ways.

It's possible that your points loss breaks out to something like 3-5 points for getting rebucketed to 5 - under 9 years AAoA (if indeed that's a new score bucket), and the rest was for the new accounts. You might well have your points back in time.

I don't know if you're familiar with the "util game", where you time your CC payments to tweak maximum points from your FICO's. Since you're aiming for a specific score, it would be worth doing this. You should aim for having only one CC reporting a balance when your score is pulled for a loan, and that balance should be some token amount like $20 or so. It can take a while to get cards to line up and behave for this, so I wouldn't wait until the very last minute. Be sure to have one reporting a balance. I lost 12 points a couple weeks ago on EQ for going from 1 card with a balance to none.

Yes, it was a big drop. Just calculated and it was 9.85 and now is 6.83. I assume the FICO score rounds down. If I add an Amex this month, it will bring it back up to 7 something, and best case scenario, just barely an 8 by December. It's so close. I don't really understand the "buckets" I've read about, so not sure if it will help but I was thinking it wouldn't hurt if I was approved.

I've read about the timing of payments I think. Charge up, but PIF before the statements cut so they report with zero balance, yes? Except for the one. Is there some benefit to having a token amount like $20 showing on one as opposed to having that one report a higher balance if the utility is still only 7 or 8% of total CL?

..Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

alvinsl — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:31:13 GMT

fyi. in august i applied for both the Green and the Zync cards within 5 days of each other. Was approved for both.

Re: ..Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

Creditaddict — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:33:24 GMT

@alvinsl wrote:
fyi. in august i applied for both the Green and the Zync cards within 5 days of each other. Was approved for both.

Why a Green and a Zync?

Re: ..Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

MS00000000 — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:40:48 GMT

@Creditaddict wrote:
@alvinsl wrote:
fyi. in august i applied for both the Green and the Zync cards within 5 days of each other. Was approved for both.
Why a Green and a Zync?

Yes, why a Green and a Zync, and did you apply online for both or phone, or?

Re: ..Re: How soon is too soon to apply for second Amex card, and which one would be good for me?

alvinsl — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:49:33 GMT

curiosity. i'd been trying to get an amex card for over two years. after being approved for the green i couldn't resist the temptation to apply for the zync (this was the card i really wanted). i didn't really expect to get an approval since i'd been turn down 4 times in the last three years. but since i only had 4 inq and my cr was finally clear of any negative info, i decided to try. i applied online (instant approval on both).