topic Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer in Credit Cards

Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

Anonymous — Thu, 16 Sep 2010 01:38:56 GMT

Received a letter in the mail today, Cap1 will now be charging a $59 annual fee on a credit card I have had with them for over 10 years that had no annual fee. Ten years of business to Cap1 gone in an instant so they can make an additional $59 a year on top of the interest they already collect. Goodbye Crap1, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 00:47:37 GMT

I read your post this afternoon while i was at work and thought to myself, "man that sucks." Just got home and in my mailbox is the same noification. You didnt mention the "whys" on your post, but I want to ask if you turned the letter over to the backside to read the important information. Mine reads the change to my membership fee was based on the following reasons and on information based in a report from the consumer reporting agency listed below (Equifax):

there are too many delinquent past or present credit obligations
proportion of revolving account balance(s) to credit limit or high credit is too high
the current membership fee on your account
your recent capital one balance

The interesing thing is they sent me a preapproval via email a little over a month ago (which I accepted and received) based on MY EXISTING CREDIT AND MY CREDIT HISTORY WITH THEM. I am in a quandry because this is the oldest tradeline I have since I began rebuilding my credit. All of my previous lines of credit were cancelled and I had a charge-off with Cap One. Via their collection agency they offered me a new card upon payoff of my charged off account. Now grant it the card received one increase from $200 to $500 and has stayed there ever since, but they were the first company to allow me to regain and rebuild credit. Not sure if it is worth $59 from $19.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

MarineVietVet — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:06:44 GMT

Cap 1 is also my oldest card and if I get that same letter I guess I'll have a decision to make.

From a BK years ago to:
EX - 9/09 pulled by lender 802
EQ - 7/06-663, 3/10-800
TU - 8/10-772
You can do the same thing with hard work

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

USC08 — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:07:22 GMT

Is this legal under the new credit card laws?

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 03:06:29 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
(Equifax):

there are too many delinquent past or present credit obligations
proportion of revolving account balance(s) to credit limit or high credit is too high
the current membership fee on your account
your recent capital one balance

For the concern about the CARD ACT. There is no violation here. This could be considered a loophole because it's a fee not an interest rate. All the restrictions in regards to universal default ... card user performance regarding other accounts only applies to interest rates not fees so that part is not applicable. That pretty much covers the blue.

The red would be fair game even if we were talking about interest rates because it concerns the account in question however the higher interest rate cannot be retroactive to the preceeding balance and must be reviewed every 6 months there after and if the consumer is found more credit worthy then the interest rate must be lowered. This should not be a hard pull if you remind them of the 6 month mark because by law states is not user initiated it's law required. So it's non PP.

The only thing they have to do is give you fourty five days notice of the change. Lack of doing so is violation of the CARD ACT.

You have the right to refuse the fee change and they have the right to close the account. That's pretty much it.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:54:54 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
(Equifax):

there are too many delinquent past or present credit obligations
proportion of revolving account balance(s) to credit limit or high credit is too high
the current membership fee on your account
your recent capital one balance
For the concern about the CARD ACT. There is no violation here. This could be considered a loophole because it's a fee not an interest rate. All the restrictions in regards to universal default ... card user performance regarding other accounts only applies to interest rates not fees so that part is not applicable. That pretty much covers the blue.

The red would be fair game even if we were talking about interest rates because it concerns the account in question however the higher interest rate cannot be retroactive to the preceeding balance and must be reviewed every 6 months there after and if the consumer is found more credit worthy then the interest rate must be lowered. This should not be a hard pull if you remind them of the 6 month mark because by law states is not user initiated it's law required. So it's non PP.

The only thing they have to do is give you fourty five days notice of the change. Lack of doing so is violation of the CARD ACT.

You have the right to refuse the fee change and they have the right to close the account. That's pretty much it.

Have to admit, though, that even though it's probably legal, it sure does suck.

Personally, I'd nuke any card that tries to charge me an AF -- most certainly if the AF is over 10% of my CL.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

Tazman81 — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:08:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
(Equifax):

there are too many delinquent past or present credit obligations
proportion of revolving account balance(s) to credit limit or high credit is too high
the current membership fee on your account
your recent capital one balance
For the concern about the CARD ACT. There is no violation here. This could be considered a loophole because it's a fee not an interest rate. All the restrictions in regards to universal default ... card user performance regarding other accounts only applies to interest rates not fees so that part is not applicable. That pretty much covers the blue.

The red would be fair game even if we were talking about interest rates because it concerns the account in question however the higher interest rate cannot be retroactive to the preceeding balance and must be reviewed every 6 months there after and if the consumer is found more credit worthy then the interest rate must be lowered. This should not be a hard pull if you remind them of the 6 month mark because by law states is not user initiated it's law required. So it's non PP.

The only thing they have to do is give you fourty five days notice of the change. Lack of doing so is violation of the CARD ACT.

You have the right to refuse the fee change and they have the right to close the account. That's pretty much it.
Have to admit, though, that even though it's probably legal, it sure does suck.

Personally, I'd nuke any card that tries to charge me an AF -- most certainly if the AF is over 10% of my CL.

+1 -- I say its about time to nuke them. I will be nuking them soon, though not for the same reason. They were the first ones to give me a card after my bankruptcy. It started at a $500 limit then went to $750. I called to ask about my "next step", and was told that I am not in any credit steps program and that my account was just increased 8months ago because of my good usage and payment history. So, I told them that I had good usage and payment history for the last 8 months and would like an additional increase. I was told the card does not qualify for a manual review blah blah blah... Anyhow, I called the back door numbers, and really got no where. The lady told me to fax in my written request to their corporate office so that they can review this. I did so, and the response I got by mail was, "we do not accept written request for credit line increases". So, over a period of only 15 days, I received 5 (yes, no studdering here, 5) letters from Crap One saying my account is not eligible for a manual review for a credit line increase. So, I said fine, I went to my credit union and I'm getting a credit card from them. Once I receive it, then I am going to be forced to spend an additional $213 (exactly) on crap1 so that I can get up to my 10k point limit and get my little gift card so I don't loose my points, and then its to the sock drawer with crap1. I will have no use for them, and will charge a pack of gum every 2-3 months to keep it active. But if they start to try to hit me with an annual fee, then they are goners.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

GregB — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:19:02 GMT

Ask yourself these questions:

1. Are you better off now than you were before CapOne gave you a CC?

2. Was there any other CC Company that would have been a better choice?

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:30:33 GMT

It's interesting that so many of you have such bad experiences with Capital One. And I can see why!

I got their No Hassle Cashback Rewards (2% on gas/groceries + 1% on everything else with no cap and no annual fee). I love the card for foreign transactions as they don't charge me a fee. Also, the cashback is straightforward: I can redeem any available amount at any time. No expiration or jump-through-a-hoop to get there.

When I applied, they gave me a CL of $7400 right away which I thought was generous.

With Cap One it seems that if you start out low with a rebuilder card or a secured card, they keep you there and are unwilling to graduate people with good history.There is a deep rift between their subprime and their prime cards.

So far, they've adhered to what they promised. But I've only had the card for two months. We'll see!

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

haulingthescoreup — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:34:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

It's interesting that so many of you have such bad experiences with Capital One. And I can see why!
I got their No Hassle Cashback Rewards (2% on gas/groceries + 1% on everything else with no cap and no annual fee). I love the card for foreign transactions as they don't charge me a fee. Also, the cashback is straightforward: I can redeem any available amount at any time. No expiration or jump-through-a-hoop to get there.
When I applied, they gave me a CL of $7400 right away which I thought was generous.
With Cap One it seems that if you start out low with a rebuilder card or a secured card, they keep you there and are unwilling to graduate people with good history.There is a deep rift between their subprime and their prime cards.
So far, they've adhered to what they promised. But I've only had the card for two months. We'll see!

Exactly. And this is true of most other builder/ rebuilder cards, even those that don't come from banks with better cards as well. It does get frustrating if they won't graduate you, but they're well-known for this.

I've always called these "training wheels" cards. Just like little kids learning to ride bikes, you might need these in the early stages. But you're not going to want to have training wheels forever, so when your credit profile improves and you can get better deals elsewhere, it's time to take off the training wheels and let someone else use them.

They were appropriate in their time; now they're not.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:38:18 GMT

Good description, the training wheels I mean.This in turn leads me to wonder why they wouldn't graduate loyal customers to reward their loyalty and reliability. Is it that they have been burnt by such customers in the past? That would be understandable. However, if it comes down to you yourself as a reliable and willing customer who feels himself / herself rejected, it is always a huge disappointment.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

haulingthescoreup — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:20:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Good description, the training wheels I mean.This in turn leads me to wonder why they wouldn't graduate loyal customers to reward their loyalty and reliability. Is it that they have been burnt by such customers in the past? That would be understandable. However, if it comes down to you yourself as a reliable and willing customer who feels himself / herself rejected, it is always a huge disappointment.

And that's the kicker right there --the feeling of being judged and found wanting. No one wants that, especially if they've successfully come back from past credit problems.

I finally got beyond that. It became very obvious during the initial credit meltdown that banks were guessing wildly as to which customers they wanted to hang on to and which to cut loose. As maddening as FICO scoring can be, it at least has several decades of research behind it. Banks use more than FICO scoring in their approval processes, and it looks to me like many of their additional evaluation tools are frequently dreamed up in the elevator while facing a Friday deadline.

I'm baffled that Cap One doesn't use the knowledge they have of their successful rebuilding customers to take them up to the next level. I'm baffled that HSBC and Barclays, which are prestigious banks in the rest of the world, stick with their lame-o US card portfolios, although Barclays is getting better. I'm baffled at Citi's and Chase's frequent about-faces as to whether they're approving new apps, increasing CL's, or extending rewards. But all this is obviously due to some sort of internal policies that they're trying out, not to what they think of me as a customer, so I shake my head and keep going.

I just judge some of the lenders that we learn about here, and I find them wanting.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

MarineVietVet — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 19:34:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
It's interesting that so many of you have such bad experiences with Capital One. And I can see why!
I got their No Hassle Cashback Rewards (2% on gas/groceries + 1% on everything else with no cap and no annual fee). I love the card for foreign transactions as they don't charge me a fee. Also, the cashback is straightforward: I can redeem any available amount at any time. No expiration or jump-through-a-hoop to get there.
When I applied, they gave me a CL of $7400 right away which I thought was generous.
With Cap One it seems that if you start out low with a rebuilder card or a secured card, they keep you there and are unwilling to graduate people with good history.There is a deep rift between their subprime and their prime cards.
So far, they've adhered to what they promised. But I've only had the card for two months. We'll see!

I've had my Cap 1 account almost 13 years and it's been no better or no worse than BoA, Citi, Discover, etc.

I've had "disagreements" with all of them at one time.

From a BK years ago to:
EX - 9/09 pulled by lender 802
EQ - 7/06-663, 3/10-800
TU - 8/10-772
You can do the same thing with hard work

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

GregB — Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:00:36 GMT

Is this the normal procedure for a person that gets a CapOne secured card?

1. Joe's credit is poor. No CCC wil give him a regular CC at all.

2. CapOne is one of the companies that has a secured card. Joe gets one with a $200 limit.

3. Joe has learned his lesson and does well enough that CapOne unsecures the card.

4. Joe continues to do well and CapOne raises the limit to the max for that card, $500.

5. Joe feels he is now a good credit risk because he knows he has cleaned up his act and is convinced he has great credit. CapOne still knows he was a poor risk and will take a while before they catch up with Joe.

6. Joe applies for a CLI from CapOne, who screws up here IMHO by not communicating that his starter card has a $500 limit and can go no higher. They aren't quite ready to give Joe a different CapOne card with a better limit since they are still trailing Joe in their opinion of his credit improvement.

7. Joe applies with BigBank, who pulls his CR and sees only the CapOne acct with $500 limit and perfect payment history. I think at this point his credit looks better to BigBank than CapOne because BigBank only has the report. BigBank gives Joe a CC with a $500 limit.

8. Joe applies with OtherBank who pulls a report showing Joe has two CC with $500 limits and perfect payment history. The report might still have the negatives that Joe had when he got the secured card in step #1, but if they are still there, they are very old. OtherBank gives Joe a CC with a $2,000 CL.

9. At this point, an app with CapOne would get him a good CC and a good CL. He would get the same from other CCC.

It seems the problem was all caused by Joe BUT since human nature isn't going to change, CapOne would do well to improve their system. By offering a very wide range of products, they have created some interesting challenges.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

Anonymous — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 01:16:59 GMT

@GregB wrote:
Is this the normal procedure for a person that gets a CapOne secured card?

1. Joe's credit is poor. No CCC wil give him a regular CC at all.
2. CapOne is one of the companies that has a secured card. Joe gets one with a $200 limit.
3. Joe has learned his lesson and does well enough that CapOne unsecures the card.
4. Joe continues to do well and CapOne raises the limit to the max for that card, $500.
5. Joe feels he is now a good credit risk because he knows he has cleaned up his act and is convinced he has great credit. CapOne still knows he was a poor risk and will take a while before they catch up with Joe.
6. Joe applies for a CLI from CapOne, who screws up here IMHO by not communicating that his starter card has a $500 limit and can go no higher. They aren't quite ready to give Joe a different CapOne card with a better limit since they are still trailing Joe in their opinion of his credit improvement.
7. Joe applies with BigBank, who pulls his CR and sees only the CapOne acct with $500 limit and perfect payment history. I think at this point his credit looks better to BigBank than CapOne because BigBank only has the report. BigBank gives Joe a CC with a $500 limit.
8. Joe applies with OtherBank who pulls a report showing Joe has two CC with $500 limits and perfect payment history. The report might still have the negatives that Joe had when he got the secured card in step #1, but if they are still there, they are very old. OtherBank gives Joe a CC with a $2,000 CL.
9. At this point, an app with CapOne would get him a good CC and a good CL. He would get the same from other CCC.

It seems the problem was all caused by Joe BUT since human nature isn't going to change, CapOne would do well to improve their system. By offering a very wide range of products, they have created some interesting challenges.
.

Very accurate description.

I believe that CrapOne, Orchard and the others should tell you up front that "This card will only have a CL higher than $500 when hell freezes over." Making you believe you have hope when none exists is lame.

Equally lame is when on CrapOne card #1 you can never get past the $500 barrier, but you can apply for a second card and get a $5,000 CL.

Rebuilders serve their purpose and are not by definition evil. Where I would draw the line is on a $500 CL card with a $59 AF.

You mention that "CapOne still knows he was a poor risk" and while I find that highly possible, it also makes me wonder about why they force you to open another, separate account to get a higher CL. Perhaps it could be that the CrapOne $500 CL on a, say, 5-year-old account reporting on your credit reports is CrapOne's secret code to let other creditors know one was once totally FUBAR? While they can't report negative information after approximately 7 years, the never-increasing $500 CL could really be a false positive serving as a warning to others who pull your report.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

homerunstacy — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 02:54:19 GMT

Cap 1 is my oldest open card as well. I guess it "cap-ed" out (pun intended) at $500 and never changed. Actually I think I even started with 500 CL. It served its purpose when I opened it in 2003. I now have other cards with 3k - 6k limits on them but I kept Cap 1 around for the age. My AF was actually $39 on the card. Not sure it will go up or not. Paid it last month. I may fire them just before it is due again next year. The card has been collecting dust for the last year anyway.

Side note - I just closed a household bank card for the same reason. It served its purpose when I needed it and now I no longer need it nor do I want to waste money on an AF for a card I never plan to use again. They even offered to refund half of the AF to keep me but I still declined. I considered also closing a chase BP rewards card with a $1200 CL that I never use too. It is from 2008 but the rep talked me into keeping it open since there is no AF. I'm just a little worried I have too many cards right now. I am trying to trim down a bit.

On the positive side my overall CLs went up on three cards in the last few months. BOA mastercard went from 2500 to 4000. Hit luv button today - got a call back from them, asked me a few questions and bumped it up no problemo. Also app'd for West Elm Card/WFFNB card and got instant approval for 4k a couple weeks ago.

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 03:50:19 GMT

Nice work, homerunstacy! Your rebuilder cards did their job (with your help), and now you're moving on.

West Elm, huh? I'd never heard of them, but they're a furniture store, so it makes sense that they give higher CL's. Congrats!

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

Safe4Me2 — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 04:17:15 GMT

Grrrrrrrrrrrr I got the same notice and I deciding if I should keep the card or not. My account is just a year old...

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

homerunstacy — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 04:30:54 GMT

Thanks.. Yes. love West Elm Store. Charged some bedding stuff as soon as it arrived and then PIF'ed.

I also am a big fan of Zgallerie - Another WFFNB card. That one I got three years ago with a $2500 CL. I've used that one a twice for large purchases. Right now carrying a balance with 0% intrest for 12 mo on the zgallerie card. Maxed it, paid 1/4 off 1st month before statement even dropped and rest will get paid off in the next 3 months. I am sure I am taking a hit on overall util. I'd probably be in the 740s already if I wasn't carrying a couple promo balances. However, the beautiful new living room chairs and a sofa set was oh so worth it =)

Re: Another Unsatisfied Cap1 Customer

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 18 Sep 2010 04:40:04 GMT

I used to hate on WFNNB, due to problems with getting them to update $0 balances on my J.Crew card, but the day that I called up and asked in my shaky voice if they would consider GW'ing my old lates, up to and including a 90-day, and the CSR replied that all she saw was the last two years, and I was clean, and she would update to the credit bureaus accordingly, they've become one of my favorite banks. Giant score hops when those came off, because I came out of one of the two negative score buckets.

And they seen to be very generous with CLI's, at least on my J.Crew card, so I have serious warm fuzzies for them, insofar as I have warm fuzzies for any bank at all.

Nice work with the 0% purchase APR. That's the whole point of working on our credit profiles --we can qualify for this sort of deal, and save/ make money in the process.