topic Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get? in Credit Cards

Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:13:10 GMT

This list below is all of Amex's no annual fee CCs:

Blue
Clear
Hilton HHonors

I'm thinking of having DW app for another Amex card (she alreay has Zync) early next year to add another old account and improve her AAofA. DW has Unknown EX, 695 EQ and 726 TU, and her most recent baddies was a CO in 11/2008 (yes, I know Amex does not use Ficos).

FYI -- DW is currently an AU on my Blue Cash, Hilton HHonors and Cash Rebate Amex CCs.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Creditaddict — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:15:10 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
This list below is all of Amex's no annual fee CCs:

Blue
Clear
Hilton HHonors

I'm thinking of having DW app for another Amex card (she alreay has Zync) early next year to add another old account and improve her AAofA. DW has Unknown EX, 695 EQ and 726 TU, and her most recent baddies was a CO in 11/2008 (yes, I know Amex does not use Ficos).

FYI -- DW is currently an AU on my Blue Cash, Hilton HHonors and Cash Rebate Amex CCs.

with the changes amex seems to have made to giving out credit card products vs charge cards, I'm not sure that one is easier then the other to get. Use to be Delta, Blue, so on.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:19:05 GMT

@Creditaddict --

You have me thinking that DW should app the Delta Gold card and PC after a year. I wonder if they are still offering the first year of annual fees for free.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Creditaddict — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:22:24 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Creditaddict --

You have me thinking that DW should app the Delta Gold card and PC after a year. I wonder if they are still offering the first year of annual fees for free.

I much rather have Clear for the simple rewards.

Most of the time now with Delta it takes 30-50k points to even get 1 round trip ticket... with that kind of spending required I rather just pay for the $300 ticket. The Jet Blue card is nice if they fly in your area because it takes as little as 5k points for a ticket.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Anonymous — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:27:30 GMT

I personally like Clear as well for the simplicity of the card overall -- especially when the card will likely be #2 for DW.

If it were all about rewards I'd have her use her Blue Cash AU card, but my primary focus right now is to improve her credit profile before we app for a mortgage in 12-24 months.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Imhotrodcrazy — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 23:54:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Creditaddict --

You have me thinking that DW should app the Delta Gold card and PC after a year. I wonder if they are still offering the first year of annual fees for free.

I just got an offer in the mail a week ago for the gold card, and yes, the fee was waved for the first year. I believe from there on it was $95 a yr. I filed it in the proper place, the trash can.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 05:00:34 GMT

@Imhotrodcrazy --

For the most part I agree with you. However, my goal is to reduce mortgage cost by creating the best credit profile possible for DW.

A couple hundred spent now to save tens of thousands over the life of the loan is a good investment to me.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

smc733 — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 12:22:42 GMT

Keep in mind the clear may be the hardest Amex to get. No fees of any kind including late fees and cash advance fees means you better have impeccable credit with a long history to get the card.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

shiftomnimega — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 13:40:38 GMT

Clear was my first major credit card. After reading through these forums and looking back I'm sort of surprised to hear that it is the hardest to get, but I suppose all considered it makes sense.

They approved me for my lowest credit limit ever, 2300, four years ago. I don't use it anymore in favor of blue cash, but I wonder if I should ask for a cli just for giggles.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 15:50:24 GMT

If your mortgage timeline is within one year, I'd suggest Gold.*

It's easier to get a charge card than a revolver, and I worry about that recent CO. The fee should be waived for the first year, and if you get your mortgage before the fee is due, she can then switch over to a Blue or whatever else she would qualify for, thus avoiding the fee.

The fee might not be waived if she doesn't get a pre-approval, I dunno.

The charge cards are just as useful as revolvers as long as you're not trying to control high util and need the revolving CL.

eta: *actually, if your mortgage timeline is within one year, she should be very cautious about adding new credit. Please check my next post...

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 15:49:16 GMT

stan_the_man, I should have asked this first: on her two myFICO score reports, what are the negatives on screen 2, in order?

Getting new cards might not help her out, in fact, or not that much.

If you and she want to raise her scores, concentrating on her negatives is where you should start.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 17:48:00 GMT

@haulingthescoreup -- You raise some really good questions and concerns.

Here are the negatives:

EQUIFAX (695 as of 10/6/2010):

You have a serious delinquency (60 days past due or greater) or a derogatory description on your credit report.
You recently missed a payment or had a derogatory indicator reported on your credit report.
You have a short credit history.
Your oldest account was opened 10 Years, 4 Months ago
Average age of your accounts 6 years

Transunion (726 as of 10/6/2010):

You have a serious delinquency (60 days past due or greater) or a derogatory description on your credit report.
The remaining balance on your non-mortgage installment loans is too high.
You have a short credit history.
Your oldest account was opened 10 Years, 4 Months ago
Average age of your accounts 6 years

To answer some of your other questions:

Utilization: This is just what I allow to report for each of our cards. It's regularly between 2% and 7% (usually near the lower end), and currently at 5%.
Ability To Revolve: I don't foresee the need any time soon, but -- if we do need to do it -- I have very ample credit lines to allow balanced to revolve without killing me on utilization.
Amex Pre-Approvals: None are currently listed directly on the Amex's site for DW
Mortgage Application Date: I really don't know when. It's going to happen at some point but the where and when are still up in the air. It looks like we're going to have to sign another one year lease that expires in 12/2011 (so that is going to be one of the factors guiding our decision as well).

Keep in mind that I know that while it's going to be new credit -- in the sense that it will be a new trade line -- Amex is going to be backdating the card to 2001. So, the only evidence on the CRs will be the new inquiry (see below for a full list of inquiries). If DW is going to app for it, it makes the most sense to do it as early as possible in 2011 -- to get the most number of extra months of age.

DW's Experian Inquiries:

American Express (Zync): 08/21/2010
First USA (Chase): 12/04/2009
Citi Cards/Citibank (Secured CC App that was rejected because DW didn't have recent use of credit -- that pissed me off): 11/15/2009

I would also like for more of DW's old tradelines not to be AUs (for one reason to reduce the risk of a Fico scoring model change), since as of right now four of her five oldest accounts are AUs. In addition, in order to keep her utilization as low as possible, it probably makes sense to remove her as an AU on my Blue card (the one that actually reports a decent size balance every month). That will remove an account that is currently tied for being her second oldest trade line (which happens to be another Amex AU).

Finally, I've pretty much exhausted all efforts to GW/remove DW's baddies -- so they only thing that's going to help us there is time (we don't see the worst of these dropping until late 2013 through 2015). I'm working on paying down DW's two student loans (which actually have very low rates of 2.875% and 3.125%), so we'll see if that helps at all.

So, that leaves us with only one of the three negatives that we might be able to improve "You have a short credit history." I know this won't increase DW's overall history length, but it will add another old trade line (which will actually be the oldest Individual Account, as opposed to an AU) and it will increase the AAofA by a few months (or negate the AAofA loss if I remove her as an AU from my Blue to optimize her utilization).

Okay, my essay is now done.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 18:15:36 GMT

Oh, thank goodness, you've done your homework.

I wouldn't worry about changing scoring models, not in this time frame anyway. FICO fires out new scoring models, but lenders are incredibly slow to switch over. They still love their Equifax Beacon 5.0 and their Experian Fair Isaac Risk Model V2 and their TransUnion Empirica, whether 1998 or 2004. Mortgage lenders are even more reluctant to change models than credit card and auto lenders, and I have seen no indication that mortgage lenders are planning to switch to FICO 08 any time soon.

I don't see any reason to take her off your Blue for now. The util won't matter until you're actually starting to apply, and you can control the reporting when that happens.

So you're right, the only thing that can be controlled is her length of history, and your best bet on that is to keep adding on the AmEx cards with 2001 dates. Did she actually get the Zync that was applied for in August? If so, she can start adding on others after six months. (It seems to be the general advice around here to build up six months' worth of history with them before going on, and that makes sense.)

But with her current AAoA and longest history, I'm not sure that adding accounts with 2001 dates (plus waiting a bit more) will be enough to bump her up into the next age tier, which I think is 9 years. Still could help, though, and it certainly couldn't hurt.

How recent are her baddies? Every year beyond 2 years helps, although the changes can be awfully incremental.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Oct 2010 03:59:47 GMT

She did get the Zync card in August.

Most of the baddies came in two waves -- a whole bunch in January-March 2007, and then the CO that with a DOFD of May 2008 (and the CO in November 2008).

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

haulingthescoreup — Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:21:26 GMT

Good, so she's got her foot in the door with the Zync.

I'd say then that AmEx is going to be her best bet for getting some age on there, because of the back-dating. I'd have her hold off until six full billing cycles have gone through, and then try for a Gold, since you feel the annual fee is worth it to improve her credit (and I agree.) Then maybe another 6 months and get her own revolver, depending on what they've got going then.

The main issue will be maintaining spotless history from here on out. Sounds like she's coming up on two years, which is great, although I don't know how much of a score change she'll see, since she has major derogs (the charge-offs.) But it would be interesting to do a before-and-after score pull, checking again in early December when the 11/2008 will definitely be over 2 years, and see if there's any decent bump then.

In the meantime, I wouldn't worry about inqs. She needs to "dilute" that bad history with clean new history. You might want to project forward what her AAoA will change to with the addition of each new AmEx backdated to whatever month of 2001 and see when it hits 9 years. If it looks like even the addition of those cards won't do the trick, the judicious addition of maybe an additional two cards in another 9 months or so will help with the diluting. It's hard to predict which would be better --older AAoA via AmEx-only, or additional tradelines, sacrificing AAoA.

How many open TL's (revolving and installment) does she have now? And I don't suppose that any of her baddies are on a WFNNB card, are they? (some examples: Victoria's Secret, J.Crew, Eddie Bauer, Express.) It appears that WFNNB is willing to erase past negatives after a credit report has been clean on every account (not just theirs.) At any rate, that's what the CSR told me when she erased my 30-60-90, God bless their little hearts.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 08:11:00 GMT

Spotless history going forward shouldn't be a problem, since we're now saving/paying down debt (student loans) at a rate of +25% of gross income.

I've already been working to dilute DW's derogs by adding every single last AU that will increase her AAofA. Right now she has 7 open revolving trade lines (2 individual, 5 AUs). I can also add two more AU tradelines that are slightly less than her AAofA (Macys CC & Charge), as well adding her as an AU to my brand new NFCU/USA Fed CC that I haven't even received yet.

If I add all the AUs, DW then would have 2 individual and 8 AU revolving trade lines. If we go ahead with adding two Amex trade lines, then 6 months would put us into March (giving a 3/2001 backdate) and another 6 months would be September (giving a 9/2001 backdate). After those Amex tradelines were added, it would then be 4 individual and 8 AU revolving trade lines.

All 12 of these tradelines would have spotless history -- no derogs and utilization less than 10%. In addition to these tradelines, DW would have two other open tradelines for student loans (they also have no derogs).

I created a couple scenarios using the above accounts to determine when DW hits 7, 8 and 9 years in AAoA:

Scenario A: Do Nothing
Scenario B: Add new Amex in 3/2010
Scenario C: Add new Amex in 3/2010 and add Macys AU tradelines (Macys Amex & Macys Charge)
Scenario D: Add new Amex in 3/2010, add Macys AU tradelines (Macys Amex & Macys Charge), and add Amex #2 in 9/2010
Scenario E: Add new Amex in 3/2010, add Macys AU tradelines (Macys Amex & Macys Charge), add Amex #2 in 9/2010 and add NFCU/USA Fed AU

7 Years
A: 1/2011
B: 1/2011
C: 3/2011
D: 3/2011
E: 4/2011

8 Years
A: 4/2012
B: 2/2012
C: 4/2012
D: 3/2012
E: 5/2012

9 Years
A: 4/2013
B: 2/2013
C: 4/2013
D: 3/2012
E: 5/2013

None of the baddies were with WFNNB, and I've worn my GW welcome out with three of the four creditors with no success. The last one, the account with the CO, is GEMB. I have not given up on them yet, but all I have left is sending GW letters further up the chain (not looking good so far).

By the time this thread is over, I feel like I'll have written a novel.

BTW -- I'm going to check to see how DW's Fico score is impacted by passing the two year mark from her last delinquency.

Re: Which Amex Is Easiet To Get?

haulingthescoreup — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:39:27 GMT

It doesn't look like she'll hit nine years in any of these scenarios in your timeframe, so it looks like adding TL's will be the way to go. I think I'd hold off on adding her as AU to any of your cards until they're over a year old. She'll have a new account ding from the Zync, and there doesn't seem to be any point in continuing to get those with additional cards, since there are alternatives (AU's and additional back-dated AmEx's.)

It looks like she's now in the credit gardening stage, which can be boring as all get-out, except that you get fun little surprises (not being sarcastic --there tend to be mysterious little score hops along the way.) In the meantime, the most important thing will be to preserve the AmEx relationship. Don't call them, don't do test limits, don't let her reports jump around, including fluctuating balances, and keep charges on the Zync modest, as these are all things which are believed to trigger FR's and closures. Flying under the radar is the name of the game on this one. You want them to be happy to have her as a customer, so that she can pick up some additional cards in the future, getting the double bonus of new clean TL's and instant age.

Note for the AmEx lovers (which includes me): Long-term AmEx holders will scoff at what I just typed, as they don't seem to have these troubles for the most part. But I think it's well-established by now that new account holders have less wiggle-room. Once AmEx is used to you, you have a lot of latitude, but IMO, new cardholders should act like the new BF/GF around suspicious parents and not do anything to set them off.

eta: "By the time this thread is over, I feel like I'll have written a novel."