topic Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue in Credit Cards

Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Feb 2011 22:44:15 GMT

Hello all-

First, here is a rundown of my credit. First time posting so i'm not sure all of the necessary stats to show:

16 years longest account

731 Experian score (which I found out later I guess is kind of worthless)

733 Transunion FICO

1 mortgage

1 credit card I actively use (Citibank AAdvantage $16,900 limit)

1 other citi card I have open but don't use

1 30 day late payment in November of 2007 (a classic misplaced $25 amazon card bill...stupid) The only bad mark on my account

I applied for the Amex Blue Cash and was declined. They pulled the report from Experian. It said the overall reason was "too low credit score" from Experian. Some of the reasons were:

Number of accounts with a deliquency

Ratio of debt to credit

Lack of recent revolving account activity

I was stunned, because i've never been denied anything credit wise. I called and told them I think it was a mistake, (could barely understand them), and they told me I could fax in my credit report and they will take a look at it. So I purchased my Experian report and faxed it in.

I just called back and was told that it was reviewed by the appeals team (or something similar), and they were going to uphold their original decision. They based it the same reasons: 1) Debt to Credit ratio 2) Low FICO score

The only things I can rationally think are:

1) At the time I pulled my report. My Citibank card had a balance of $9,440. I pay this card off everymonth, and I was just about to pay it off. So it showed a high balance.

2) Since this card has no preset spending limits, it shows $0 as my credit limit on this card with a balance of $9,440. The AMEX rep thought that might be a contributing factor because it showed I had a high balance and a $0 limit. I called Citi and they said that is standard protocol because it is a no preset spending limit card. So, the only card I use...shows $0 for a limit.

One more thing that confuses me, both the letter that AMEX sent and both credit reports (Experion and Transunion) say on the things that negatively affect my score:

Lack of recent activity on your revolving accounts.

Your credit report shows no open revolving accounts or it does not report recent information (such as balance or credit limit) about any of your revolving accounts. You might want to show new activity on any credit card, etc etc.

On the same report, it shows what is helping my credit score is:

You've limited the use of your available credit.

Your FICO score evaluates your total revolving account balances in relation to your total credit limits on those accounts. Ratio of your revolving balances to your credit limits: Unknown.

Is this because Citi doesn't report a credit limit? What other steps could/should I take or should I just give up on the Blue Cash card and go somewhere else?

Sorry for writing such a narrative! Much thanks for any help you could provide.

Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Scene — Mon, 21 Feb 2011 23:37:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hello all-

First, here is a rundown of my credit. First time posting so i'm not sure all of the necessary stats to show:

16 years longest account
731 Experian score (which I found out later I guess is kind of worthless)
733 Transunion FICO
1 mortgage
1 credit card I actively use (Citibank AAdvantage $16,900 limit)
1 other citi card I have open but don't use
1 30 day late payment in November of 2007 (a classic misplaced $25 amazon card bill...stupid) The only bad mark on my account

I applied for the Amex Blue Cash and was declined. They pulled the report from Experian. It said the overall reason was "too low credit score" from Experian. Some of the reasons were:

Number of accounts with a deliquency
Ratio of debt to credit
Lack of recent revolving account activity

I was stunned, because i've never been denied anything credit wise. I called and told them I think it was a mistake, (could barely understand them), and they told me I could fax in my credit report and they will take a look at it. So I purchased my Experian report and faxed it in.

I just called back and was told that it was reviewed by the appeals team (or something similar), and they were going to uphold their original decision. They based it the same reasons: 1) Debt to Credit ratio 2) Low FICO score

The only things I can rationally think are:

1) At the time I pulled my report. My Citibank card had a balance of $9,440. I pay this card off everymonth, and I was just about to pay it off. So it showed a high balance.
2) Since this card has no preset spending limits, it shows $0 as my credit limit on this card with a balance of $9,440. The AMEX rep thought that might be a contributing factor because it showed I had a high balance and a $0 limit. I called Citi and they said that is standard protocol because it is a no preset spending limit card. So, the only card I use...shows $0 for a limit.

One more thing that confuses me, both the letter that AMEX sent and both credit reports (Experion and Transunion) say on the things that negatively affect my score:

Lack of recent activity on your revolving accounts.
Your credit report shows no open revolving accounts or it does not report recent information (such as balance or credit limit) about any of your revolving accounts. You might want to show new activity on any credit card, etc etc.

On the same report, it shows what is helping my credit score is:

You've limited the use of your available credit.
Your FICO score evaluates your total revolving account balances in relation to your total credit limits on those accounts. Ratio of your revolving balances to your credit limits: Unknown.

Is this because Citi doesn't report a credit limit? What other steps could/should I take or should I just give up on the Blue Cash card and go somewhere else?

Sorry for writing such a narrative! Much thanks for any help you could provide.

What's the limit (if any) of the "1 other citi card I have open but don't use" card?

You have a long history of credit and a mix of credit types which is good. However this is negated by the high debt to credit ratio. I don't have a Citi AAdvantage card, but by your description it looks like this card has no preset spending limit, is paid in full each month, and reports with a $0 limit and only reports the highest balance. Since this card does not attribute to the amount of credit available, on your reports it looks like you are utilizing a high percentage of your credit limit and generally being an irresponsible high risk consumer.

d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Feb 2011 23:58:55 GMT

The other card only has a $2,000 limit. However, its never used. In fact, I just checked and I never even activated it when I got the new card. I just did that, so maybe that will start reporting. I didn't see it on my credit report.

You are correct, the Aadvantage card has no preset limit. It does have a credit limit of $16,900. However, as Citi told me, they don't report a credit limit to the bureus because of the no preset limit. She assured me that it doesn't negatively effect my score, but I'm not 100% about that. If they don't know what the credit limit is, how can they calculate my debt to credit ratio? I think that is why it says "Unknown" on my debt to credit ratio.

I think you are right, no matter my FICO score, to them it looks like I have a large balance on a card with little limit. I just wish I could speak to an actual person that has the authority, so I could explain all of this to them. However, the people on the front lines of the New Accounts are 1) hard to understand and 2) won't tell me anything more than what the standard letter says and just tells me to contact Experian.

Thanks for the help!

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

vish1 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 02:39:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The other card only has a $2,000 limit. However, its never used. In fact, I just checked and I never even activated it when I got the new card. I just did that, so maybe that will start reporting. I didn't see it on my credit report.

You are correct, the Aadvantage card has no preset limit. It does have a credit limit of $16,900. However, as Citi told me, they don't report a credit limit to the bureus because of the no preset limit. She assured me that it doesn't negatively effect my score, but I'm not 100% about that. If they don't know what the credit limit is, how can they calculate my debt to credit ratio? I think that is why it says "Unknown" on my debt to credit ratio.

I think you are right, no matter my FICO score, to them it looks like I have a large balance on a card with little limit. I just wish I could speak to an actual person that has the authority, so I could explain all of this to them. However, the people on the front lines of the New Accounts are 1) hard to understand and 2) won't tell me anything more than what the standard letter says and just tells me to contact Experian.

Thanks for the help!

Newer FICO algorithms ignore no preset limit cards. However lenders may or may not use the latest FICO algorithms. So they may (with old algo) see your total CL as 2k and 9.5 k usage which is a disaster. In a newer algorithm, its no better for you as it will say you have not used your only credit account for ages and your available CL is only 2k and you have only 1 revolving TL.

If I was you, I will start using my other card a bit and also add a few easier to get cards first.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

android01 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:19:43 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The other card only has a $2,000 limit. However, its never used. In fact, I just checked and I never even activated it when I got the new card. I just did that, so maybe that will start reporting. I didn't see it on my credit report.

You are correct, the Aadvantage card has no preset limit. It does have a credit limit of $16,900. However, as Citi told me, they don't report a credit limit to the bureus because of the no preset limit. She assured me that it doesn't negatively effect my score, but I'm not 100% about that. If they don't know what the credit limit is, how can they calculate my debt to credit ratio? I think that is why it says "Unknown" on my debt to credit ratio.

I think you are right, no matter my FICO score, to them it looks like I have a large balance on a card with little limit. I just wish I could speak to an actual person that has the authority, so I could explain all of this to them. However, the people on the front lines of the New Accounts are 1) hard to understand and 2) won't tell me anything more than what the standard letter says and just tells me to contact Experian.

Thanks for the help!

You might try this from the "backdoor numbers" thread.

American Express Credit Bureau Unit: 800-874-2717. Must have a current credit report before calling. They will ask for the account number from the credit report, which is different from your card number.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 14:27:36 GMT

Thanks for the replies so far.

I thought I would charge something on this other card, just to show I use it. Also, my other plan of action, Citi told me that they report their information to the bureaus once a month at the beginning of each month. So, I thought whatever my balance is at the end of this month, I will pay it down to zero. Then try to apply again sometime in the first or second week or March so hopefully my balance will show low at that time.

Yeah Android, I tried the backdoor number last week and whoever I spoke to, she asked me for my account number. I couldn't find anything, and then once I told her I wanted to speak to someone about my denied CC app, she transferred me to new accounts (the same place i've been talking to). So maybe I approached it the wrong way, but the backdoor number didn't get me anywhere.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Red1Blue — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 15:34:38 GMT

apply for amex charge card. It is much easier to get approved and after 6 months you can apply for their credit card or after 12 months convert your charge card to one of their credit cards.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

jason10 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 15:54:17 GMT

Are AMEX's revolvers more difficult to obtain than other prime CCs from Chase, Citi, BoA etc.? Also, what makes it more difficult? Are they looking just for a higher FICO score, or are they more interested in your "relationship" with AMEX? I have had an AMEX Blue for four years, and was just approved for a TrueEarnings card. My EQ FICO isn't that high, but I've never had a late payment, and have a good history with AMEX. I'm just curious why others think AMEX's revolvers are difficult to obtain.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Red1Blue — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 16:17:59 GMT

@jason10 wrote:
Are AMEX's revolvers more difficult to obtain than other prime CCs from Chase, Citi, BoA etc.? Also, what makes it more difficult? Are they looking just for a higher FICO score, or are they more interested in your "relationship" with AMEX? I have had an AMEX Blue for four years, and was just approved for a TrueEarnings card. My EQ FICO isn't that high, but I've never had a late payment, and have a good history with AMEX. I'm just curious why others think AMEX's revolvers are difficult to obtain.

Amex looks for relatiohship and longevity of accounts with them. For Amex charge cards are lucrative and profitable since they are paid every month in full and less risk than the credit cards. If you remember for several years Amex used to have only charge cards. It is only recently they introduced credit cards.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:14:01 GMT

I don't think AMEX allow PC from a charge to a credit. But I could be wrong.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:15:21 GMT

Another reason why I HATE cards that has no "preset spending limit" because it shows creditors that you have too much credit.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

vish1 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:58:29 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Another reason why I HATE cards that has no "preset spending limit" because it shows creditors that you have too much credit.

Is this correct? I was under an impression that newer fico algos ignore them.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

cutemarty1 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:59:35 GMT

@Red1Blue wrote:
apply for amex charge card. It is much easier to get approved and after 6 months you can apply for their credit card or after 12 months convert your charge card to one of their credit cards.

So i could convert AMEX Gold to blue or they have to run my credit again.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

tsquad131 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 18:02:56 GMT

amex blue and gold card are 2 different types of products. Gold card is charge, and amex blue is a revolving card. You cant convert a charge into a revolving because they have different criteria for approval so you would have to apply again

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

android01 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 18:14:46 GMT

@vish1 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
Another reason why I HATE cards that has no "preset spending limit" because it shows creditors that you have too much credit.
Is this correct? I was under an impression that newer fico algos ignore them.

They do if the creditor is using an updated FICO model. TU98 (like what you get from Myfico) does NOT ignore these cards while TU04 does. I'm sure there are older models of EX and EQ use as well (Myfico uses the updated EQ).

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

vish1 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 18:24:39 GMT

@android01 wrote:

@vish1 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
Another reason why I HATE cards that has no "preset spending limit" because it shows creditors that you have too much credit.
Is this correct? I was under an impression that newer fico algos ignore them.

They do if the creditor is using an updated FICO model. TU98 (like what you get from Myfico) does NOT ignore these cards while TU04 does. I'm sure there are older models of EX and EQ use as well (Myfico uses the updated EQ).

Well, my thought is that even the older (aka dumber) model, which doesn't know how to recognize a no preset limit card will not say that you got too much credit as it will count the CL for this card as 0.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:03:37 GMT

So, do you all think my plan might work? If I charge a little on my other card that I just reactivated (since my main card doesn't show a CL), pay off my main card right before the end of the month and reapply next month?

Maybe I should just rerun my credit report with the lower balance on that card and fax it back to Amex to review.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

vish1 — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:08:24 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
So, do you all think my plan might work? If I charge a little on my other card that I just reactivated (since my main card doesn't show a CL), pay off my main card right before the end of the month and reapply next month?

Maybe I should just rerun my credit report with the lower balance on that card and fax it back to Amex to review.
I will do this first and if it doesn't work, I will ask if I can be recon for a charge card and if even that fails, I will wait for about 3 months and then apply again.

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:36:30 GMT

Hey all. Just wanted to give an update.

Finally....after much pestering, phone calls, and faxes, I got approved. I guess if it helps anyone in the future, here is what I did.

I waited a month after the first application. Of course my initial appeal got denied. I wrote Citibank and asked that they report my $16,900 CL to the bureaus because blank or $0.00 doesnt' look too great. They wrote back and said since it is a "no preset spending limit" they do not report my limit to the bureaus. They claim they do it for my benefit because if I exceed my CL and go above that, it would hurt my credit score if they reported my CL. However, I don't ever go even close to my CL...anyways.

I made a concerted effort to keep my balances low (made several payments on my citibank card) to keep the balance low right before the end of the month. I also made one small charge on my unused Citi Premier Pass card that I never use anymore. I then reran my credit report from Transunion on the 7th and it went from a 731 on 2/7/11 to a 744 on 3/7/11 with that lower balance. I pulled my Experian since that it was Amex was using, and it showed the correct balance as well. And my somewhat meaningless Experian score was 777.

I called Amex and faxed it back my report back in with a little more explanation earlier this week. I just checked online and it said Approved.

I don't know if they approved me because my score increased...or because they were tired of being harrassed....

Thanks for the help along the way!

Re: d Re: Please help! Denied and don't understand. Amex Blue

kwoods1 — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:57:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hey all. Just wanted to give an update.

Finally....after much pestering, phone calls, and faxes, I got approved. I guess if it helps anyone in the future, here is what I did.

I waited a month after the first application. Of course my initial appeal got denied. I wrote Citibank and asked that they report my $16,900 CL to the bureaus because blank or $0.00 doesnt' look too great. They wrote back and said since it is a "no preset spending limit" they do not report my limit to the bureaus. They claim they do it for my benefit because if I exceed my CL and go above that, it would hurt my credit score if they reported my CL. However, I don't ever go even close to my CL...anyways.

I made a concerted effort to keep my balances low (made several payments on my citibank card) to keep the balance low right before the end of the month. I also made one small charge on my unused Citi Premier Pass card that I never use anymore. I then reran my credit report from Transunion on the 7th and it went from a 731 on 2/7/11 to a 744 on 3/7/11 with that lower balance. I pulled my Experian since that it was Amex was using, and it showed the correct balance as well. And my somewhat meaningless Experian score was 777.

I called Amex and faxed it back my report back in with a little more explanation earlier this week. I just checked online and it said Approved.

I don't know if they approved me because my score increased...or because they were tired of being harrassed....

Thanks for the help along the way!

Congratulations! Glad your hard work paid off for you in the end!