topic Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ... in Credit Cards

Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 06:44:33 GMT

Hi everyone, I got to tell and ask you about what my DD (20) said about her AU cards on mine.

I was thinking it will surprise her in the good way by showing the ccs with her name on it. WRONG! She got up-set "You used my SS# and Not just one. You got me four." and yell at me to cancel her AU ccs. She said she wants to start with zero and it's ok with small CL, or credit score of above 750 if she is already have ccs under her name.

Factors:

She doesn't understand about AU, not even try to understand.
She said she have my credit score and asking mine even I told her that is not true.
She wants credit score of 750 or higher if she have her own (she thinks she owns) credit card already ...
She said she doesn't want Amex either Discover card.
She wants VISA or MC next yr.
I explained to her that having AU ccs will help her to get approval at the time of apps, but she doesn't get it.

What would you do? Remove from AU? or keep as is? What do you think? May I have your opinion? Thanks.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

llecs — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:49:12 GMT

I'd remove and apologize. IMO, if a family member did that to me I'd be upset. While the intent was well, I would be upset because someone would be messing with my credit even if it was for good. For me, I'd rather accomplish a high score on my own vs. having someone artifically inflate it for me. I'd also be worried that the family member could default leaving me with a bad TL to get rid of, or even a balance left on it monthly which I'd have no control over. Now most of us know and understand credit. There might be 20 other misconceptions on her mind which play into this as well.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 11:16:28 GMT

@llecs wrote:
I'd remove and apologize. IMO, if a family member did that to me I'd be upset. While the intent was well, I would be upset because someone would be messing with my credit even if it was for good. For me, I'd rather accomplish a high score on my own vs. having someone artifically inflate it for me. I'd also be worried that the family member could default leaving me with a bad TL to get rid of, or even a balance left on it monthly which I'd have no control over. Now most of us know and understand credit. There might be 20 other misconceptions on her mind which play into this as well.

I'd only add that I'd also explain to her that you didn't use her social security number (just her name), as the cards never belonged to her. That you are solely responsible for the cards-- she was never a joint owner, just an authorized user of one of YOUR cards.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

barbaralee — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:14:39 GMT

4 isa little bit of an overkill. =/

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

flyingmd — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:37:20 GMT

She has every right to be upset and frankly you are wrong. I also agree that 4 cards is totally overkill and sends a very irresponsible message about credit cards and using credit. What 20 yo needs 4 cards off the bat like that??? What I did with my daughters is have many conversations over time about the need for credit in this world and how it is a huge responsiblilty which can get a person into to major financial and emotional distress if not handled properly. I discussed with them the difference between AU and having their own card and the decision to make them an AU was discussed in advanced as was the timing for when they should start to build their own credit histories and the benefit of having an excellent credit/financial history. On a positive note, it sounds like your daughter is a very astute, intelligent and responsible girl. She obviously learned the the seriousness associated with the use of credit from somwhere. Also keep in mind that over 75% of identity theft is committed by family members and /or friends. Using someones SS number like that without their knowledge is just plain wrong. Even if it is only as an AU. Not that I am accusing you of identity theft, but I know several examples where the the theft was done by a parent to a child atfter the parent got themselves into financial hot water and started using their childrens SS number to get credit. This to me is despicable and a violation of trust and security to the person who depends most on that trust and security, a child. What an awful way to go out into the world, with multiple blemishes on a credit report because of an irresponsible parent. I just think that a persons SS number in this day and age should be protected absolutely and that the decision whether or not to hand that number out to a credit card company or anywhere else should rest with that person. Not their parent, child, brother, sister, etc. Sorry to sound to negative, but I am only giving you my opinion because you asked for it in your initial post.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 13:43:05 GMT

It sounds like you were trying to do a nice thing for your DD, but if she wants to accomplish good credit reports and scores on her own then I'd remove the AU accounts.

I commend you for trying to help your DD, but if she wants to do this on her own, let her, that's a good attitude on her part IMO.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 14:04:33 GMT

I understand your position, bunnyrabbit, but I also understand hers.

A couple of years ago, one of my nieces graduated college and went job hunting. It didn't work out well at all...no jobs available in her chosen profession.

I thought I'd help her out a bit. I made a few phone calls, thinking I was helping her out. At least two of the positions were a lock for her, all she'd have to do was show up sober for the interviews, with her scholastic record and recommendations, etc. in hand.

I made a big mistake. I'd forgotten what I was like at that age, but I remembered really fast when she started yelling at me about her independence, not needing help with anything, not trading on my name...the whole nine yards. And she was right, I should have minded my own business.

By the way, right now, she's still looking for a permanent job. She's got three part-time crap jobs for some income, and still lives with her Mom...but she's independent as hell, right? In her mind, she is...and it makes no difference whatsoever what I think.

She could have had her own home and a great car by now, all on her own hook. But no, she needed to do it "on her own".

Jeesh, all I did was set up interviews. If she was no good at the job, she'd be out of any of those positions in pretty much of a heartbeat. She didn't understand that all I was doing for her was getting her foot in the door so she could prove her own worth to the folks that mattered, her new employers.

I will still help her out anytime that she asks me to help her. But that's what it's going to take, asking. And I may think about it for a while first, before acting on it.

...and life goes on...

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 15:17:45 GMT

@flyingmd wrote:
She has every right to be upset and frankly you are wrong. I also agree that 4 cards is totally overkill and sends a very irresponsible message about credit cards and using credit. What 20 yo needs 4 cards off the bat like that??? What I did with my daughters is have many conversations over time about the need for credit in this world and how it is a huge responsiblilty which can get a person into to major financial and emotional distress if not handled properly. I discussed with them the difference between AU and having their own card and the decision to make them an AU was discussed in advanced as was the timing for when they should start to build their own credit histories and the benefit of having an excellent credit/financial history. On a positive note, it sounds like your daughter is a very astute, intelligent and responsible girl. She obviously learned the the seriousness associated with the use of credit from somwhere. Also keep in mind that over 75% of identity theft is committed by family members and /or friends. Using someones SS number like that without their knowledge is just plain wrong. Even if it is only as an AU. Not that I am accusing you of identity theft, but I know several examples where the the theft was done by a parent to a child atfter the parent got themselves into financial hot water and started using their childrens SS number to get credit. This to me is despicable and a violation of trust and security to the person who depends most on that trust and security, a child. What an awful way to go out into the world, with multiple blemishes on a credit report because of an irresponsible parent. I just think that a persons SS number in this day and age should be protected absolutely and that the decision whether or not to hand that number out to a credit card company or anywhere else should rest with that person. Not their parent, child, brother, sister, etc. Sorry to sound to negative, but I am only giving you my opinion because you asked for it in your initial post.

Just so that we're all clear on this subject, this isn't about identify theft (I know that's not what you're saying, flyingmd, but I just want to make certain that everyone understands that).

What bunnyrabbit did is what parents do all the time for their teens & young adults. Most, like bunnyrabbit, do it without a second thought, because they're not leveraging their childrens' clean/unblemished names to gain credit or services for themselves (identity theft). They're providing access to their own credit for their children. Lots, and lots of parents do it. When children are traveling with friends & relatives, it's not at all rare for parents to hand them an AU card to use, as oposed to cash. Heading off to college? Mom or Dad pull DD or DS aside, give them a quick primer on using it "for emergencies", and stash a card in their hand (only to reposess it at the midterm break, LOL!!!). Senior trip-- a credit card frequently gets handed out. First job out of college, child moves halfway across the country with no savings, and only the promise of a paycheck? Mom & Dad frequently hand them a credit card. Kids (older teens/young adults) are being left at home for the 1st time while Mom & Dad travel? Sometimes they leave an authorized user card for expenses while they're gone.

My point is that it happens all the time, without consideration for "credit building" for the child. It's usually convenience. My father made me an AU on a credit card when I was only 16 (my older sister was too irresponsible), when we started driving, and dating, etc... I think he was scared that we would be caught somewhere without cash, and have need for a method of payment. He didn't ask or consult me. He just gave it to me, and made me swear not to let my sister get ahold of it, LOL! <-- An emergency trip to the mall might have been in order if she had. I never used it until I went to college, and he instructed me to use it to buy books, etc.. (it wasn't one that reported AUs, apparently, either), but it was about a parent providing access to *his* financial vehicle, not about my own credit history (or lackthereof).

Bunnyrabbit understands the value of having good credit, and how difficult it is to establish credit for a young adult, under the age of 21, in this day and age. She mistakenly thought that her daughter would be pleased by recieving a hand up. It was a hit or miss proposition, to be sure, but I'm certain that it was done with only good intentions for her child. I suspect that her daughter doesn't fully understand the nuances of credit & finance, or else she might just accept this unexpected gift **until** she could establish her own credit history. This, because I don't know many 20 year olds who wouldn't jump at the chance to not have to pay deposits for cell phones, or higher interest rates on cars, and insurance, etc... Very few 20 year olds have reached an affluent financial state without the assistance of their parents/relatives/guardians/benefactors, anyway.

The only difference in what bunnyrabbit did, and what hundreds of thousands of parents do all the time (in good faith) is the forethought of her daughters *credit report*-- desired or not. My father thought it more convenient to pay certain educational expenses of mine with his credit card (in my posession). There is no doubt in his mind that he gave absolutely no consideration for what, if any, impact it might have on my credit, being an AU. He doesn't hang out here at the FICO forums.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 15:34:09 GMT

That was very well said LilMirth.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

flyingmd — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 15:42:28 GMT

I did not mean to imply the OP was commiting identiy theft. So please please, if any one has gotten that impression, get rid of it now. And yes. Many many parent put their children on as AU on their accounts. I have done so myself. But before I did, I had a long discussion (many discussions over time) about the importance of credit and using it responsibly. And both kids I put a credit limit on their AU cards which was substantially lower than my credit limit. I strongly believe that if children are given cards for convience on their parents accounts, it is way too easy for them to get the impression that just because they can put it on their cards means they can afford it. I really believe that alot of bad credit habits are established very early on when children have too much access to their parents money and don't really learn the value of the dollar. Not all kids, and not all parents. But this credit education really needs to start early if we are going to avoid another generation of debtors who are slave to their credit card debt and in the end have nothing to show for it. And if a parent uses a SS number so casually, then how is a child going to learn how important that SSN is in this society (topic of another conversation) and how it needs to be protected at all times.

I understand that the OP was well meaning and of course what is good for one family may not be good for another family. But the OP did ask for our opinions and I gave mine (so ask me how I really feel......LOL). Personally I think the OP should have another talk with her daughter outlining the above along with what steps are necessary to establish a positive, healthy credit history and convince her to take one of the AU cards from her parent. I would go so far given her daughters reaction to suggest that she require the daughter to pay back each month what she spends for a certain period of time (for instances 6 months) so her daughter can "feel" what its like to be able to spend during the month and have to plan to pay at the end. This would be great practice in preparing her daughter or any child prior to them getting their own card. Six months ont make a difference in the daughters scores or average age over the long term and it would be an excellent lesson. I did this with my son (who wasn't as mature chronicalogically as my daughters were at the same age). I think this is a very important topic in general and this forum should be required reading for all children prior to applying for their own credit.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

jason86423 — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 16:03:33 GMT

I have done the same thing with my son who is 17. I did take the time to discuss with him first of what I was doing, plus since our nearest relative is 600 plus mile away I wanted to give him instant access to emergency funds.

I've driven into him how important it is to have a good FICO score and the steps he needs to take once he is out on his own to keep it.

When he got his drivers license, for kicks and grins (and with him sitting right there to agree) I asked AAA to run his insurance score. The agent laughed and said oh, he doesn't have one. I laughed back and said I bet he does. You should have seen the look on his eyes. He goes, well, your son's score is a bit HIGHER than yours. Would you like to use that score to figure your insurance discount? I let my son decide since it was "his score" that would be used. All in all a 17 year old with a 780 insurance score is a great start! The agent did tell me that AAA in Michigan uses EX for insurance scoring.

In the end, I think that it is important for a discussion with the child on what your intent is and gain their permission. Especially in today's society.

All in all IME it has gone well. My son has a 9 year old credit history and carries only a very small balance each month. And the best is that with him being an AU on my Amex he will have a nice member since 2002 on his first approved card with them.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Cloudlb — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 16:14:21 GMT

I know you meant well, but honestly, I'd be upset too. the problem is you were high-handed and didn't discuss your actions with your daughter beforehand, to explain the benefits. Now she's mad, and you have lost the opportunity to educate her about her credit. It's doubtful if she will ever listen to you on the subject. It's an unfortunate consequence of your well-meaning but poorly thought out gesture.

at least you tried--it's more than my parents ever did.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

trumpet-205 — Sun, 21 Aug 2011 16:53:51 GMT

When I first started on building my credit history, my parents refused to give me a jump start in any possible way. This includes adding me as an AU or lending me money for secured credit card. I basically start with thin files to short credit history now (10 months). My dad did eventually agreed to add me to one of his AU, but that's only after I have obtained my first CC.

While your intention are good, you did not discussed with your daughter prior hand. Honestly, I feel I learned more about credit history on my own rather than having my parents giving me a jump start.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Aug 2011 02:05:05 GMT

"What would you do? Remove from AU? or keep as is? What do you think? May I have your opinion? Thanks."

==============================

Drop her.

I'll say this, I wish Id have had a parent like you way back when.

Id help my daughter out in a heartbeat by adding her as an AU if it werent for the irresponsible arse she married.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Red1Blue — Mon, 22 Aug 2011 03:48:27 GMT

If it makes you feel any better, my 18 year old daughter says the same thing about being AU on my cards.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Aug 2011 03:57:51 GMT

I agree with the others. OP, you were wrong to do this without her permission, even if you were good intentioned.

Anyone know if this it's illegal for parents to use their children's SSN without permission? I'm sure an adult child, if so inclined, could press charges against their parent.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

clocktick — Mon, 22 Aug 2011 04:00:49 GMT

Not every card requires a ss# for someone to be added as an AU.

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

tpatterson2k9 — Mon, 22 Aug 2011 04:16:45 GMT

Slightly off topic, but what does everyone think about adding a 13 year old child as an AU after explaining the rationale behind it? I believe 13 is the youngest age someone can be added as an AU, but do you think someone this young has the ability to understand the importance of responsible credit use and how important credit scores are? I applied for an Amex card for the backdating so I can eventually add my future children (long ways away from that) to the card at 13 so they have a great CC history by the time they go to college and apply for their own student loans. Is 13 too young if everything is explained to them as best as possible?

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Aug 2011 06:56:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@llecs wrote:
I'd remove and apologize. IMO, if a family member did that to me I'd be upset. While the intent was well, I would be upset because someone would be messing with my credit even if it was for good. For me, I'd rather accomplish a high score on my own vs. having someone artifically inflate it for me. I'd also be worried that the family member could default leaving me with a bad TL to get rid of, or even a balance left on it monthly which I'd have no control over. Now most of us know and understand credit. There might be 20 other misconceptions on her mind which play into this as well.
+1

I'd only add that I'd also explain to her that you didn't use her social security number (just her name), as the cards never belonged to her. That you are solely responsible for the cards-- she was never a joint owner, just an authorized user of one of YOUR cards.

yes, I did explained it to her. She just doesn't listen ...

Re: Oh my goodness ~ what do you say ...

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Aug 2011 07:33:36 GMT

@Deportation's wrote:
Slightly off topic, but what does everyone think about adding a 13 year old child as an AU after explaining the rationale behind it? I believe 13 is the youngest age someone can be added as an AU, but do you think someone this young has the ability to understand the importance of responsible credit use and how important credit scores are? I applied for an Ames card for the backdating so I can eventually add my future children (long ways away from that) to the card At 13 So they have a great CC history by the time they go to college and apply for their own student loans. Is 13 too young if everything is explained to them as best as possible?

Hi toothpaste ... just to let you know that Amex requires minimum age of 15 to add as AU.