topic AMEX Denial in Credit Cards

AMEX Denial

zoe15 — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:27:51 GMT

On 12/30, I applied for an AMEX Clear card. My app was denied, and they listed my Equifax credit score as 659. This score seemed low to me, so I ordered my Equifax score from myfico on 1/2, and it listed my score as 688. Nothing on my report changed during this time, so I'm a little puzzled by the discrepncy. Should I assume the Equifax score I ordered here is more accurate than the score provided by AMEX? (AMEX pulled all 3 reports, btw, though they said they'd based their decision on my Equifax credit score.)

Re: AMEX Denial

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:35:42 GMT

@zoe15 wrote:
On 12/30, I applied for an AMEX Clear card. My app was denied, and they listed my Equifax credit score as 659. This score seemed low to me, so I ordered my Equifax score from myfico on 1/2, and it listed my score as 688. Nothing on my report changed during this time, so I'm a little puzzled by the discrepncy. Should I assume the Equifax score I ordered here is more accurate than the score provided by AMEX? (AMEX pulled all 3 reports, btw, though they said they'd based their decision on my Equifax credit score.)

Hello Zoe15,

What exactly were the reasons for denial? If you haven't heard Amex uses their own homegrown calculation to assess your "credit worthyness."

Re: AMEX Denial

pizzadude — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:36:15 GMT

Did the AMEX denial letter state that the score was a FICO score ? And did they provide a range of min - max scores ? It is possible that they provided you a non-FICO score.

Another possibility is that they used a newer version of FICO than what is offered here at MyFico.

Or it is also possible that you gained 29 points as your AAoA improved from Dec to Jan, or maybe as some negatives fell off.

What were the reasons listed for your denial ?? AMEX will occassionally list a low credit score as a reason for denial, but they use their own scoring system to evaluate your application, so your score is not a good indicator of whether you will get approved.

Re: AMEX Denial

LS2982 — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:36:25 GMT

odds are amex pulled a credit card enhanced fico from EQ

Re: AMEX Denial

CS800 — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:38:27 GMT

They most likely pulled the new FICO08.

But one never knows since AMEX has their own in house scoring. Unless they mention 'FICO'

Re: AMEX Denial

zoe15 — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:47:15 GMT

Here's what AMEX said in the denial letter:

We obtained your FICO score from Equifax and used it in making our credit decision. Your FICO score is a number that reflects the information in your credit report. Your FICO score can change, depending on how the information in your credit report changes. On December 30, 2011, your FICO score was 659. The FICO score ranges from 300 to 850. The following are the key factors that contributed to your FICO score:

Derogatory public record or collection filed.
Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high.
Too many inquiries last 12 months.
Too many accounts with balances.

So, it sounds as though they either used a newer version of FICO or an in-house calculation. I wasn't aware of either possibility, so thanks for letting me know.

Re: AMEX Denial

JusdoNit — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:49:39 GMT

@zoe15 wrote:
On 12/30, I applied for an AMEX Clear card. My app was denied, and they listed my Equifax credit score as 659. This score seemed low to me, so I ordered my Equifax score from myfico on 1/2, and it listed my score as 688. Nothing on my report changed during this time, so I'm a little puzzled by the discrepncy. Should I assume the Equifax score I ordered here is more accurate than the score provided by AMEX? (AMEX pulled all 3 reports, btw, though they said they'd based their decision on my Equifax credit score.)

What I have learned from my recent denial:

Amex does pull all three and as they informed me "they go with the lowest score and then basis it on their scoring system." They too rated me in the high 600's although my FICO scores are mid 700's.

Also, they want at least one year of perfectly paid credit and as I have read on the board; they prefer (require) lowest utiliztion possible at 1-9% (but get this...they only want to see that reporting on one card only). Their requirements are near excellence, but I hear it's worth it.

You are not alone in rising to meet their standards.

Hope this helps, but if not toss

Re: AMEX Denial

pizzadude — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:51:02 GMT

Did they state a denial reason other than the FICO scoring factors ??

Re: AMEX Denial

zoe15 — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:52:04 GMT

@JusdoNit wrote:
@zoe15 wrote:
On 12/30, I applied for an AMEX Clear card. My app was denied, and they listed my Equifax credit score as 659. This score seemed low to me, so I ordered my Equifax score from myfico on 1/2, and it listed my score as 688. Nothing on my report changed during this time, so I'm a little puzzled by the discrepncy. Should I assume the Equifax score I ordered here is more accurate than the score provided by AMEX? (AMEX pulled all 3 reports, btw, though they said they'd based their decision on my Equifax credit score.)

What I have learned from my recent denial:

Amex does pull all three and as they informed me "they go with the lowest score and then basis it on their scoring system." They too rated me in the high 600's although my FICO scores are mid 700's.

Also, they want at least one year of perfectly paid credit and as I have read on the board; they prefer (require) lowest utiliztion possible at 1-9% (but get this...they only want to see that reporting on one card only). Their requirements are near excellence, but I hear it's worth it.

You are not alone in rising to meet their standards.

Hope this helps, but if not toss

Thanks! This definitely helps. I'll probably hold off on reapplying for an AMEX until my credit report and utilization are much better.

Re: AMEX Denial

zoe15 — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:53:42 GMT

@pizzadude wrote:

Did they state a denial reason other than the FICO scoring factors ??

Yeah, they quoted these factors under the paragraph regarding my score:

Derogatory public record or collection filed.
Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high.
Too many inquiries last 12 months.
Too many accounts with balances.

Re: AMEX Denial

pizzadude — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:56:53 GMT

You might consider applying for a Charge Card before you apply for an AMEX revolver....their Charge Cards are easier to obtain, and you get your foot in the door with them.

Re: AMEX Denial

zoe15 — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:59:53 GMT

@pizzadude wrote:

You might consider applying for a Charge Card before you apply for an AMEX revolver....their Charge Cards are easier to obtain, and you get your foot in the door with them.

Thanks; that sounds like a good idea. Do you think I might qualify for a Zync card based on the information AMEX provided in my denial? I would of course lower my revolving utilization to below 9% before applying again.

Re: AMEX Denial

pizzadude — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 19:07:57 GMT

Yeah, I think it would be worth a shot once your %util is lower.

Re: AMEX Denial

zoe15 — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 19:16:49 GMT

@pizzadude wrote:

Yeah, I think it would be worth a shot once your %util is lower.

Cool. Thanks!

Re: AMEX Denial

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 19:20:55 GMT

Derogatory public record or collection filed.
Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high.
Too many inquiries last 12 months.
Too many accounts with balances.

To the best of your knowledge are these factors accurate on your EQ report?

If so:

How old is your PR/CA?

What is your current utl?

How many Inqs in the past year?

How may accts with balances?

How many total accts?

Re: AMEX Denial

zoe15 — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 19:55:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Derogatory public record or collection filed.
Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high.
Too many inquiries last 12 months.
Too many accounts with balances.
To the best of your knowledge are these factors accurate on your EQ report?

If so:
How old is your PR/CA?
What is your current utl?
How many Inqs in the past year?
How may accts with balances?
How many total accts?

I have 2 paid judgements; one from 2007 and one from 2008

My current utilization is 16%; I only have one revolving CC w/ a $3000 CL

I have 4 accounts with balances: 2 student loans, 1 auto loan, and 1 revolving credit card (no lates)

I only have 4 open accounts; I have several closed installment accounts in good standing and my AAoA is 6 years

Re: AMEX Denial

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 20:01:09 GMT

@zoe15 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

Derogatory public record or collection filed.
Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high.
Too many inquiries last 12 months.
Too many accounts with balances.
To the best of your knowledge are these factors accurate on your EQ report?

If so:
How old is your PR/CA?
What is your current utl?
How many Inqs in the past year?
How may accts with balances?
How many total accts?
I have 2 paid judgements; one from 2007 and one from 2008
My current utilization is 16%; I only have one revolving CC w/ a $3000 CL
I have 4 accounts with balances: 2 student loans, 1 auto loan, and 1 revolving credit card (no lates)
I only have 4 open accounts; I have several closed installment accounts in good standing and my AAoA is 6 years

Amex typically hates major Derogs. The negative factors are listed by the level of hatred. I would wait/actively finds ways to have your judgements removed from your CRs. I would hate for you to apply for any Amex product (even a Zync) no matter your score and you continue to receive denials.

Re: AMEX Denial

GregB — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 20:00:52 GMT

Are you sure they pulled Equifax? I have never seen them pull anything except Experian except for a few cases where they pulled EX and then pulled another CRA in an attempt to get someone approved.

On all the approval and/or denial letters that I have seen the "Key factors that adversely affected your FICO score" section matches exactly the section on that person's EX FICO report. Those are FICO reason codes, not Amex. Amex may have additional factors that influence approval but I haven't seen any listed in addition to the FICO factors.

I do suspect that the FICO score they are using is the EX Beacon 9 Bankcard Industry card even though they are saying the range is 300-850 like a Classic FICO would be. The theoretical range of the BankCard Industry Score is actually 250-900 even though scores below 300 or above 850 don't seem to actually exist.

Re: AMEX Denial

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 20:02:27 GMT

@GregB wrote:
Are you sure they pulled Equifax? I have never seen them pull anything except Experian except for a few cases where they pulled EX and then pulled another CRA in an attempt to get someone approved.

On all the approval and/or denial letters that I have seen the "Key factors that adversely affected your FICO score" section matches exactly the section on that person's EX FICO report. Those are FICO reason codes, not Amex. Amex may have additional factors that influence approval but I haven't seen any listed in addition to the FICO factors.

I do suspect that the FICO score they are using is the EX Beacon 9 Bankcard Industry card even though they are saying the range is 300-850 like a Classic FICO would be. The theoretical range of the BankCard Industry Score is actually 250-900 even though scores below 300 or above 850 don't seem to actually exist.

I've seen examples where Amex pulls all 3 CRs, Innovis and telecheck!

Re: AMEX Denial

eparker — Tue, 03 Jan 2012 20:03:19 GMT

Yea, I am waiting to get an Amex as well. Need to get my util down. Exp is not my best report, I think I am 642 or so with them. Gonna wait six months when I have all my Credit cards paid off, and see what happens. Guess I will shoot for the Zync first and see what happens.