topic Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent in Credit Cards

Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 22:54:51 GMT

Hey guys don't mind me. I needed a place to VENT and share the answers to the questions that I've had for the past week. I just got off the phone with AMEX. The ID verification department kept calling me. They said, they could not find any information about me in public records ( phone number) , which is a great thing!

The guy calls my bank- address, how long as account been open...ok pass. He then tells me I can use my card. But wait, it still says suspending.

REWIND: I got F/R'd before I actually got the card. Ok, when UPS delivered it, they started calling me. I called the # and it was the FR dept. They hit me with the typical speech you see on forums, "we need to have more information on file blah blah blah." I sucked it up and sent in the 4506-T knowing that they would probably not understand MY INCOME.

Here is my situation:

W-2 : yes very low. < $400

1099: yes about four of them $103k+

1065: one $16k+

1120: (Owner of a company that they issued a card to ...used another officer to get it. But they know I own the MM company.)

I wanted to know when they did the FR what $ would they calculate. I could not find this one the web. PS. They requested RECORD OF ACCOUNT..not a transcript. The answer? TOTAL INCOME as reported on the first page of your 1040...not your actual income.

Is that line accurate? NOPE! I did some researched and learned, had I applied for a mortgage, the lender would had added back in some expenses/deductions ( and I think tax too.) Nope? Not AMEX! Let me tell you how real it is ( and I will round off). I was told that the FR is still reviewing and as noted the account that their will be a limit on the Plat card I was approved for because of my income. Well what is my income?

Don't laugh at my tax skills, but out of the $210k income that was reported on my 1040 via w-2, 1099, 1065 , I wrote off $187k. Yes, that leaves $23k...but NOPE that's not what they used as income. They said something about $16k. That $16k was after exemptions or some crap. If you ask me that $16k was my "savings" LOL. Remember unless I don't see it on my tax program, they never ask how much $ you have in the bank, they only say interest. I guess I'm supposed to report that extra cash I have just sitting there. :-)

The point is, I spent $187k + in CASH( minus the tax breaks) every year on personal, domestic, education, self employed expenses and they give me a limit? I personally think, AMEX is crazy because they could had made how much off me? I mean really, what do they think I was going to use the card for? I was going to use it for the " $187k expenses." So am I supposed to use the AMEX for the $16k? If so, when I write my taxes my new total income would be $0 because Im going to write that off too. LOL.

In the end, I kept asking what is the limit because if its not more than $5k ...I want to say $10k ( highest CC is $20k), they can forget about me as a customer on the personal side. Its simply not worth it.

Wait, just thought about it. This AMEX acct would be my oldest acct if they backdate it, but with the amount of inquiries I have...I wouldn't be able to benefit from it for another year or two. So is that $900 for backdating worth it? I do travel A LOT and I only stay at the "best" resorts and hotels, so if they really do upgrade then that will save me thousands per year. I would say at least $2k+ but that's the only real perk.

I don't know. What do you think?

FYI, our business card limit (still says no pre-set) is only $3k!!! That's on > $2MM revenue. I can only imagine what my poor little Amex would be. Maybe $100 LMAO

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Creditaddict — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:10:42 GMT

Maybe you should skip your fingers over to Chase and apply for the new Palladium Card!!!

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Ron1 — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:13:39 GMT

Sorry to hear it. What card did you apply for? Did they tell you the reason of FR?

Ron.

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

LS2982 — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:17:29 GMT

This thread right here is exactly why i'll decline an FR. Nobody is asking me questions about my texes other than Uncle Sam.

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:32:44 GMT

Agreed! When I was an AU on a card..that was open for me to use as a college student... the account got hit with an FR because I was the only one using it. We declined and refused to submit the 4506-T (that's why this would be my oldest account.)

Last year, I applied for the new Zync. Got approved. 2 months later if that, got hit with a FR. Cancelled my cards. For the hell of it I sent them my 4506-T to see what the big deal was and if my returned would get my account closed. On the app I clearly said I made XXXk when they said my total income is only $16k. Good to know that they did not say OH YOU ARE A LIAR...because the only person that lied was them when they asked me my INCOME on the application...not 1040 income. For a self employeed ( or tax savvy) person such as myself its going to always be different from what hit my bank account. For my professional, I can even write off my clothing... because I have Celiac I can write off all of my food ( thank god...bc i shop at Whole Foods and love to eat!)

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:34:53 GMT

I'm waiting for all these inquiries to fall off or at least age. According to Citi and Chase ...too many inquiries. I'll say by June. Who do they pull? I got approved with for the AMEX with 80 inquiries on EX. LMFAO

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

pizzadude — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:39:09 GMT

I would have to be a CPA or tax attorney to try to understand some of what is going on here.......I really don't understand, but I think AMEX is trying to verify your ability to pay given that you have reported income of either 23K, or 16K.

Being self~employed has its perks, no doubt, but you've got to expect to go under the microscope with creditors, CCs, mortgage, etc...

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:41:55 GMT

LS, have you ever purchased a home?

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:45:52 GMT

Prob because I told them to kiss my rear Dec 2010 when they tried to FR on an AMEX I had for no more than 3 to 4 mths.

Reason being...they started me off with $500. Before I closed... I got it to $3500. How? Charged and paid off...none stop within the same cycle. + You know the Pass card that came out? I got one for a younger sibling and it was popping up as a gift card purchase every month when I gave him cash for school. The rep asked me "WHY DO YOU KEEP BUYING GIFT CARDS?" I said I never purchased a gift card ever! The sad thing is, there was no other means of loading the card. **bleep**? By then it was too late, so I asked them to just cancel the card because I was not giving them a 4506-T but I did get slick and send in one for my business and partnership...whether or not they requested one who knows.

My mom got FR when she got her first AMEX card. She charged $300 ( Supermarket and Pharm). The mintue she went to add me, they FR her. (LOL) She was furious. My mom says AMEX is a scam. "They will approve you and wait until they charge you the annual fee and FR you." If you close you don't get your $ back. At least she didn't. I had to pay the $175 for getting her the account. She's still pissed about it. :-)

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:50:51 GMT

See I understand but I don't understand. If I do not make those deductions or claim those expenses do you know how much tax I would owe? That's when you have to make the decision.... "baller" or tax break?

That 23k/16k whatever... isn't income per se because remember I deducted contact lenses, dental expenses, groceries, etc. Regular everyday things that most people can't or forget to deduct. So even if they added back the itemized deductions and NOT the expenses related to biz I would still be way over $60k per year in income.

Hey, I'm not going to get upset.... AMEX is def not worth me losing out on all of the IRS related perks. Tax relief over an AMEX card any day.

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:52:59 GMT

@dharalex Yes, but not to live in. Flipped it. Why? What's up?

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

GregB — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 00:04:31 GMT

I would expect Amex to be very capable of making an intelligent conclusion about income based upon a 1040. I would assume they would look at several items including Line 22 and Line 37, which are likely the two items that you refer to as $23K and $16K. Those are both low enough to scare them a bit so it probably doesn't matter which they are using. I expect they would probably look at both and other items on your tax return.

You might want to start with an entry level card and build some history with them.

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 00:08:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I'm waiting for all these inquiries to fall off or at least age. According to Citi and Chase ...too many inquiries. I'll say by June. Who do they pull? I got approved with for the AMEX with 80 inquiries on EX. LMFAO

This is just speculation but I believe the FR was triggered by the amount of inquiries in a short period of time and lack of history with Amex

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 00:16:12 GMT

@GregB wrote:
I would expect Amex to be very capable of making an intelligent conclusion about income based upon a 1040. I would assume they would look at several items including Line 22 and Line 37, which are likely the two items that you refer to as $23K and $16K. Those are both low enough to scare them a bit so it probably doesn't matter which they are using. I expect they would probably look at both and other items on your tax return.

You might want to start with an entry level card and build some history with them.

Yup. What you said is reasonable and I get it. But that still does not take away the fact that they are not considering my true income. Unless I'm off with my understanding of what income is. They asked me my income on the application... NOT what the IRS says my income is.

How about this. Let's say I was a regular w-2 employee and my annual income was $65k every single year from my job. I put $65k on my app. If I have kids in day care or a babysitter those expenses would get deducted from my "income." Depending on how much it totals, my IRS income could drop down to $30k in a city such as mine. Pre-K is 20 to 30k in my city at a private school. So.... is AMEX telling me, my income is not $65k because of whatever deductions? Okay cool, then ask me what my NET INCOME or maybe IRS reported total income.

Here is another scenario. I have to file taxes in different taxes. My IRS income is $16k right? In MA they are telling me my income is $75k , but in NY I'm at my AGI. I file state taxes in about 4 different states and have 4 different TOTAL incomes because they don't honor all the same deductions.

I'm sorry but its all BS to me...at the end of the day...( and not saying I'm proud of it) spend a lot of $ on the cost of living + work. The purpose of the AMEX card was not to act as a revolving cc but because I spend a lot of $ on my debit and PIF CCs every month. ( Amex are stalkers they see I pay 5 and 6k per month to different cards every mth.)

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 00:17:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I'm waiting for all these inquiries to fall off or at least age. According to Citi and Chase ...too many inquiries. I'll say by June. Who do they pull? I got approved with for the AMEX with 80 inquiries on EX. LMFAO

This is just speculation but I believe the FR was triggered by the amount of inquiries in a short period of time and lack of history with Amex

That's what I thought too. But when my mom card was FR, the rep told her if she ever applied for another AMEX and was approved she would automatically be FR because she declined to submit a 4506T. This was in 2010.

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Revelate — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 02:54:44 GMT

What sort of self-employed business are you running that you regularly pay taxes in multiple states?

I had to do that exactly twice when I was self-employed, moving back and forth between TX and Cali and part-time residence calculations (sucked). Your residence or corporate address of record isn't fixed?

Not sure, I agree Amex should've figured things out a little better, gross income is pre-tax, expenses, etc ad naseum, and is typically used for such calculations as you've stated... unless they had something else to trigger it (80 inquiries really?) and were suspicious otherwise. Frankly I think being able to write off ~90% of your income is a little suspect but I don't know what type of business you happen to run as self-employed. Mad skills though I'll admit.

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

CribDuchess — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 04:07:25 GMT

Something is just not adding up here. Itemized deductions do not reduce your "income", they simply reduce your tax liability.

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 04:21:49 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
What sort of self-employed business are you running that you regularly pay taxes in multiple states?

I had to do that exactly twice when I was self-employed, moving back and forth between TX and Cali and part-time residence calculations (sucked). Your residence or corporate address of record isn't fixed?

Not sure, I agree Amex should've figured things out a little better, gross income is pre-tax, expenses, etc ad naseum, and is typically used for such calculations as you've stated... unless they had something else to trigger it (80 inquiries really?) and were suspicious otherwise. Frankly I think being able to write off ~90% of your income is a little suspect but I don't know what type of business you happen to run as self-employed. Mad skills though I'll admit.

I would also like to know what type of business you run .

Mind sharing some of that write off knowledge?

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 22:03:08 GMT

@CribDuchess wrote:
Something is just not adding up here. Itemized deductions do not reduce your "income", they simply reduce your tax liability.

Aye, I use taxact.com. Remember I'm talking 1099s and 1065s as well, but yes if I have 43k or more in med expenses and other things it will decrease my income. I know this for certain because I put in additional deductions under itemized just now to check and my total income went down. I took it off and it went back up.

Expenses just reduce my tax refund. The more expenses I put on my 1099s the less they will give me back. I'm not a CPA but what I'm telling you is 100% legit for me. I have ALL of my reciepts. And I mean ALL. I just follow the questions and answer them honestly and this is what happens to me, my income gets decreased. Like I mentioned yesterday...even my state income varies depending on which state I have to file with. One said 16k last year and others had all types of ranges.

:/ aye... I'm not complaining about the IRS. Shoot, I even got a letter yesterday from them saying they OWE ME MONEY! I was just mad about the Amex word play.

Re: Amex : Personal Card - Financial Review - Self Employed + Vent

Anonymous — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 22:09:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
What sort of self-employed business are you running that you regularly pay taxes in multiple states?

I had to do that exactly twice when I was self-employed, moving back and forth between TX and Cali and part-time residence calculations (sucked). Your residence or corporate address of record isn't fixed?

Not sure, I agree Amex should've figured things out a little better, gross income is pre-tax, expenses, etc ad naseum, and is typically used for such calculations as you've stated... unless they had something else to trigger it (80 inquiries really?) and were suspicious otherwise. Frankly I think being able to write off ~90% of your income is a little suspect but I don't know what type of business you happen to run as self-employed. Mad skills though I'll admit.

+1

I would also like to know what type of business you run .

Mind sharing some of that write off knowledge?

My secret, Taxact.com and just read all of the info the IRS has about deductions. Oh and around this time of year Google "tax deductions" and "tax credits" to see what new benefits are out there. Gotta love bloggers. For the last two years, I've been doing my due diligence and it has paid off. What has me upset is, I could had gotten tax breaks for past years but didn't know how. Knowledge is truly power. As for my 1099 businesses, I am a consult. Sometimes clients do not want to hire a company ( or even my company) they want ME directly. A total bummer and honestly I hate that. What kind of consulting? That I'll rather keep to myself, if you don't mind.