topic Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year in Credit Cards

+16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

haulingthescoreup — Tue, 17 Apr 2012 02:39:58 GMT

So this probably ought to be over on Understanding FICO Scoring, or maybe General Credit Topics, but I read a post a few days ago asking about when your scores change when an inq hits 1 year.

Also, this might cheer up some of those going nuts with boredom in the Garden.

So anyway, until two days ago, I had 4 inqs under one year on Equifax. Two were the result of genuine apps (Navy and Chase Southwest VISA), one was due to me trying for a CLI online for Home Depot (Citi), grumble, grumble, and one was completely bogus from PenFed when I had trouble with a pre-approval and called for help. (snarl) Scores plunged 16 points when the last one (PenFed) hit.

Saturday 4/14 was the one-year anniversary of my inq from Navy. Since I have Credit Watch Gold, and I never really know what provokes Scorewatch into action, I pulled a free report that day. (No score with that service.)

To my amazement, I got an alert today that my EQ had jumped 16 points. The ONLY thing that has happened was the inq hitting one year Saturday. Despite obsessive monitoring, there were no score changes from the -16 when the PenFed inq hit to the +16 today, with Navy no longer counting.

So, a couple of things:

At least for me, the inq stopped counting when it hit its one-year birthday, not at the end of the month.
And having four inqs instead of three can most definitely have a significant score impact for those in certain buckets. In my case, it's 22 years total history, 6 (I think) years AAoA, 1 30 day still reporting from 8/2005, no significant derogs. Revolving util is under 5%.

As always YMMV.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Apr 2012 02:57:17 GMT

It's pretty difficult for people to accept that a ton of inquiries aren't a good thing, score-wise.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

webhopper — Tue, 17 Apr 2012 03:10:42 GMT

I did not realize it until I lost my mortgage approval with the DU system and had to reapply for a 20 yr mortgage because the underwriting software for approvals had changed from the initial CR they pulled. My scores dropped 20 or so point because of inquiries and I had to do some major shuffling to get them back up into approval range. That's why.I encourage borderline applicants in the mortgage forum to wait until their.scores are higher than they need to be!

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

Revelate — Tue, 17 Apr 2012 07:24:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
It's pretty difficult for people to accept that a ton of inquiries aren't a good thing, score-wise.

I think it's more that many folks either don't care, or care too much. It's graduated, 0, 1, 2-3, 4-7ish? Something like that for tiered bucketing on inquiries, and the amount of damage (or healing in this case) is probably dependant on what strata of credit score your at anyway (if not outright specific bucket).

Hauling, when was the Penfed inquiry? Recent or was it older which might make the line-item comparison a little sloppy? Thank you for sharing though, interesting stuff.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

frogfan12 — Tue, 17 Apr 2012 12:38:06 GMT

Hauling, do you know the impact that an inquiry falling off has on a score? I have at least two inquiries set to fall off in September and October of this year. They were from when I rented my last apartment.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Apr 2012 12:50:11 GMT

People always say 'Inquiries don't factor into FICO scores after one year' but has anyone ever gotten a bump as they age off at the two year mark? I wasn't really watching too carefully in the past and don't know. I have one falling off TU in May and will try remembering to look and post about it.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

Anonymous — Tue, 17 Apr 2012 21:28:04 GMT

I highly doubt this was due to going from 4 to 3 inquiries. I had like 10 inquiries on each CBR and I was monitoring my FICO on EQ and TU as they passed the one year mark one by one until I was left with just 2 on each report, and never noticed this big of a jump. Could it be that you hit the 7 year AAOA landmark?

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 03:11:44 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
It's pretty difficult for people to accept that a ton of inquiries aren't a good thing, score-wise.
I think it's more that many folks either don't care, or care too much. It's graduated, 0, 1, 2-3, 4-7ish? Something like that for tiered bucketing on inquiries, and the amount of damage (or healing in this case) is probably dependant on what strata of credit score your at anyway (if not outright specific bucket).

Hauling, when was the Penfed inquiry? Recent or was it older which might make the line-item comparison a little sloppy? Thank you for sharing though, interesting stuff.

PenFed was the most recent inquiry. It hit in December, when I lost the 16 points.

From the full EQ report:

Inquiries that may impact your credit rating

These inquires are made by companies with whom you have applied for a loan or credit.

Name of Company	Date of Inquiry
CHASE BANK USA N.A Show Details	08/27/11
THE HOME DEPOT/CBSD Show Details	07/04/11
NAVY FEDERAL CREDIT UNION Show Details	04/14/11
PENTAGON FCU Show Details	12/07/11

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 03:15:15 GMT

@frogfan12 wrote:
Hauling, do you know the impact that an inquiry falling off has on a score? I have at least two inquiries set to fall off in September and October of this year. They were from when I rented my last apartment.

As I wrote, YMMV (your mileage may vary.) In other words, it can be all over the map.

For most people, it's 3-5 points max. But in some situations, as in mine, it can be far, far more.

It also depends on how many inqs you have before they fall off, and how many after. (You only look at the inqs on one report, not all three combined.)

For instance, usually (I emphasize, usually) the first inq on a given report doesn't affect your scores. (The new account might, though.) But then the second would. The third might not, and then the fourth would.

They generally run out of gas around 5-6, so if you have 12 inqs on one report over the last year, then hey, one more won't hurt.

Which report has the inqs, and how many will be left on that report when these two fall off?

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 03:16:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
People always say 'Inquiries don't factor into FICO scores after one year' but has anyone ever gotten a bump as they age off at the two year mark? I wasn't really watching too carefully in the past and don't know. I have one falling off TU in May and will try remembering to look and post about it.

Nope, doesn't happen, at least not for FICO scoring.

The formula only looks at inqs within the last year. FWIW (not much), I've never noticed anything happening when one leaves the report for good after two years.

No telling how FAKO scores might count them, though.

And of course, lenders might have an issue, even if the score isn't affected.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 03:24:28 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I highly doubt this was due to going from 4 to 3 inquiries. I had like 10 inquiries on each CBR and I was monitoring my FICO on EQ and TU as they passed the one year mark one by one until I was left with just 2 on each report, and never noticed this big of a jump. Could it be that you hit the 7 year AAOA landmark?

You wouldn't have seen anything until you went under 5 or so. The scoring formula poops out on scoring impact after 5-6 on the same report. After that, hey, you can go nuts without any impact, other than possibly from the new accounts, if you're approved.

And I understand your skepticism, but I posted this specifically because this DOES happen in certain score buckets, where there isn't really anything else negative going on.

My score dropped 16 points when the fourth inq (PenFed) hit in December, and it increased 16 points when the oldest (Navy) fell off on Saturday, leaving me with only three under one year old. I checked the old report, and I had the same number of accounts with balances and same revolving inq in December as I did yesterday. The AAoA hasn't increased (courtesy of the new accounts. )

It's really, really important to grasp the whole YMMV (your mileage may vary) thing when it comes to FICO scoring. When you're rebuilding, etc., you'll read about how someone gained 75 or even 100 points when a collection fell off, but when one of yours falls off, nothing happens. But that's because the other person had no other negatives other than the collection, and you (speaking hypothetically, I certainly don't mean you specifically) have five more collections to go after than one, and maybe a lien or something, so losing that one collection didn't help the score at all.

And for those who don't believe about the 75-100 points, DXH had an incorrect collection on EX only, and when I got it off, his EX FICO jumped 75 points to the low 800's, where his EQ and TU were. (This is back when we could buy our EX FICO's.) Same thing happened with MidnightVoice. When it's your only negative, and you have long history, one collection has a devastating impact on your scores.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 03:33:04 GMT

Good to know. Thanks for the heads up.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

frogfan12 — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 03:12:19 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
@frogfan12 wrote:
Hauling, do you know the impact that an inquiry falling off has on a score? I have at least two inquiries set to fall off in September and October of this year. They were from when I rented my last apartment.
As I wrote, YMMV (your mileage may vary.) In other words, it can be all over the map.

For most people, it's 3-5 points max. But in some situations, as in mine, it can be far, far more.

It also depends on how many inqs you have before they fall off, and how many after. (You only look at the inqs on one report, not all three combined.)

For instance, usually (I emphasize, usually) the first inq on a given report doesn't affect your scores. (The new account might, though.) But then the second would. The third might not, and then the fourth would.

They generally run out of gas around 5-6, so if you have 12 inqs on one report over the last year, then hey, one more won't hurt.

Which report has the inqs, and how many will be left on that report when these two fall off?

I have 7 on EX, 3 on TU, not sure how many on EQ. 2 inquiries are going to fall off of all CRs by September, so that will leave me with 5 on EX (boo me for trying for Citibank CLIs) and 1 on TU.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

haulingthescoreup — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:19:37 GMT

@frogfan12 wrote:
@haulingthescoreup wrote:
@frogfan12 wrote:
Hauling, do you know the impact that an inquiry falling off has on a score? I have at least two inquiries set to fall off in September and October of this year. They were from when I rented my last apartment.
As I wrote, YMMV (your mileage may vary.) In other words, it can be all over the map.

For most people, it's 3-5 points max. But in some situations, as in mine, it can be far, far more.

It also depends on how many inqs you have before they fall off, and how many after. (You only look at the inqs on one report, not all three combined.)

For instance, usually (I emphasize, usually) the first inq on a given report doesn't affect your scores. (The new account might, though.) But then the second would. The third might not, and then the fourth would.

They generally run out of gas around 5-6, so if you have 12 inqs on one report over the last year, then hey, one more won't hurt.

Which report has the inqs, and how many will be left on that report when these two fall off?
I have 7 on EX, 3 on TU, not sure how many on EQ. 2 inquiries are going to fall off of all CRs by September, so that will leave me with 5 on EX (boo me for trying for Citibank CLIs) and 1 on TU.

Then my guess would be no change on EX FICO (assuming you could find out what it is), because you'll still have 5 left and probably an increase on TU. Can't guess how much, because there are so many other factors going on.

Wait, hold up here: Are they falling off, or are they going over one year old?

If they're going over one year old, they don't fall off (they display for two full years), but they stop affecting your score.

If they're literally falling off, as in over two years old, they stopped affecting your score back when they hit one year, so no score change on FICO's. No telling on FAKO's, of course.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

webhopper — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:24:36 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
@frogfan12 wrote:
Hauling, do you know the impact that an inquiry falling off has on a score? I have at least two inquiries set to fall off in September and October of this year. They were from when I rented my last apartment.
As I wrote, YMMV (your mileage may vary.) In other words, it can be all over the map.

For most people, it's 3-5 points max. But in some situations, as in mine, it can be far, far more.

It also depends on how many inqs you have before they fall off, and how many after. (You only look at the inqs on one report, not all three combined.)

For instance, usually (I emphasize, usually) the first inq on a given report doesn't affect your scores. (The new account might, though.) But then the second would. The third might not, and then the fourth would.

They generally run out of gas around 5-6, so if you have 12 inqs on one report over the last year, then hey, one more won't hurt.

Which report has the inqs, and how many will be left on that report when these two fall off?

I have a lot of inqs from mortgage apping... so the additional inqs for the new CC accounts I got didn't hurt my score at all. Thats why i went ahead and got all my CC apping out of my system so that I'll see a tremendous jump in score once the mortgage inqs and recent CC inquiries fall off within a couple of months of each other.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

haulingthescoreup — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:27:38 GMT

Makes sense, and thanks for the reminder about mortgage (and auto loan) apps being de-duped for scoring purposes if occuring within a given timeframe.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

frogfan12 — Sat, 21 Apr 2012 18:05:38 GMT

The inquiries are completely falling off. They'll be two in August and September of this year (I believe).

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

Anonymous — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 13:09:46 GMT

I concur with YMMV comment. My DW's TU98 score dropped by 14 points (784 -> 770) when her inquiries went from 2 to 3 for getting a Walmart Discover. Her AAoA did not change (9 years) as she has enough other TLs.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

GST2008 — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:46:41 GMT

I might be wrong about this, but I remember also reading that the ratio of zero balance CC accounts to accounts to all accounts with balances also affects the scores (in addition to utilization, age of accounts, and inquiries). I have no inquiries on my TU or EQ CRs, and my overall utility decreased, but smaller balances reported on more cards (changing the ratio) and this caused my scores to decrease on both CRs, even though the overall usage is much less and my age of accounts has increased since the last time I pulled the reports.

Re: +16 points going from 4 to 3 inqs, alert came 2 days after inq hit one year

haulingthescoreup — Sun, 22 Apr 2012 19:59:38 GMT

@GST2008 wrote:
I might be wrong about this, but I remember also reading that the ratio of zero balance CC accounts to accounts to all accounts with balances also affects the scores (in addition to utilization, age of accounts, and inquiries). I have no inquiries on my TU or EQ CRs, and my overall utility decreased, but smaller balances reported on more cards (changing the ratio) and this caused my scores to decrease on both CRs, even though the overall usage is much less and my age of accounts has increased since the last time I pulled the reports.

This is very true, and it's one of the addicting parts of playing the util game. When you see the score you get with just one card (maybe two, even three if you have a lot of open revolving and very little open installment), and then you see the score drop when additional cards report, even with tiny balances, it does tend to rev you up about controlling the number of accounts reporting balances.

Even when it doesn't actually matter because you're "not in the market."

At any rate, I had the same number of accounts with balances and the same util with the original score, and then with the -16 drop, and then with the +16 recovery.

I'm at a very boring stage in credit, and there just isn't a whole lot of anything going on with my reports and scores. It happens.