topic Re: Amex’s Financial review in Credit Cards

Amex’s Financial review

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:26:36 GMT

Back in June I received a financial review .I closed my account not because i stretched my income.The reason being stubborn and to much work sending them info.They wanted all usual documation plus copy of my wife's soc number and ID. If I apply for a Costco card in the future can I plan receiving a FR before being approved.My Fico score is 788. Thank you

Re: Amex’s Financial review

LS2982 — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 01:29:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Back in June I received a financial review .I closed my account not because i stretched my income.The reason being stubborn and to much work sending them info.They wanted all usual documation plus copy of my wife's soc number and ID. If I apply for a Costco card in the future can I plan receiving a FR before being approved.My Fico score is 788. Thank you

Yes, any future AMEX approvals will be flagged with FR very shortly after getting account.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 02:59:29 GMT

I don't blame you for not complying, I wouldn't either. But yes, unfortunately, any future apps may be approved, but will be immediately flagged for an FR.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Revelate — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 04:53:07 GMT

May I ask why the hate for the Amex FR process?

I don't think it's substantially different from any other lender's AA in terms of aggravation or incidence rate, and I'd personally rather have the chance to exonerate myself instead of the typical lender AA answer which amounts to "You suck, go bother someone else, kktnxbai!"

I don't consider it to be any more invasive personally than pulling my credit report, which they have unlimited access to anyway if they so choose. I may have to turn over tax returns for a mortgage someday, and I've already had to establish my income 3 times in the last year in order to continue my financial progress anyway. I'm probably missing something, or I'm just special with regards to my rebuilding process, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

CreditScholar — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 05:01:46 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
May I ask why the hate for the Amex FR process?

I don't think it's substantially different from any other lender's AA in terms of aggravation or incidence rate, and I'd personally rather have the chance to exonerate myself instead of the typical lender AA answer which amounts to "You suck, go bother someone else, kktnxbai!"

I don't consider it to be any more invasive personally than pulling my credit report, which they have unlimited access to anyway if they so choose. I may have to turn over tax returns for a mortgage someday, and I've already had to establish my income 3 times in the last year in order to continue my financial progress anyway. I'm probably missing something, or I'm just special with regards to my rebuilding process, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

I think one of the OPs major issues is that it places the burden of work upon himself, whereas with a soft pull the lender (like Amex) does the work for you. If a cardholder has done something odd to trigger a F/R like running business expenses through a personal Amex, then it's to be expected. That's part of what it means to do business with Amex.

However there have been others who have been FRed with no good reason (that can be identified), and then it becomes an issue of integrity and respect. If I asked a long-time client who had always paid his bills on time to hand his financials/tax info over to me, he'd probably scoff and take his business elsewhere. Added to the burden placed upon the cardholder, I can see why some may not want to comply.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 05:05:03 GMT

@CreditScholar wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
May I ask why the hate for the Amex FR process?

I don't think it's substantially different from any other lender's AA in terms of aggravation or incidence rate, and I'd personally rather have the chance to exonerate myself instead of the typical lender AA answer which amounts to "You suck, go bother someone else, kktnxbai!"

I don't consider it to be any more invasive personally than pulling my credit report, which they have unlimited access to anyway if they so choose. I may have to turn over tax returns for a mortgage someday, and I've already had to establish my income 3 times in the last year in order to continue my financial progress anyway. I'm probably missing something, or I'm just special with regards to my rebuilding process, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

I think one of the OPs major issues is that it places the burden of work upon himself, whereas with a soft pull the lender (like Amex) does the work for you. If a cardholder has done something odd to trigger a F/R like running business expenses through a personal Amex, then it's to be expected. That's part of what it means to do business with Amex.

However there have been others who have been FRed with no good reason (that can be identified), and then it becomes an issue of integrity and respect. If I asked a long-time client who had always paid his bills on time to hand his financials/tax info over to me, he'd probably scoff and take his business elsewhere. Added to the burden placed upon the cardholder, I can see why some may not want to comply.

+1 agree

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Revelate — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 05:20:32 GMT

@CreditScholar wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
May I ask why the hate for the Amex FR process?

I don't think it's substantially different from any other lender's AA in terms of aggravation or incidence rate, and I'd personally rather have the chance to exonerate myself instead of the typical lender AA answer which amounts to "You suck, go bother someone else, kktnxbai!"

I don't consider it to be any more invasive personally than pulling my credit report, which they have unlimited access to anyway if they so choose. I may have to turn over tax returns for a mortgage someday, and I've already had to establish my income 3 times in the last year in order to continue my financial progress anyway. I'm probably missing something, or I'm just special with regards to my rebuilding process, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

I think one of the OPs major issues is that it places the burden of work upon himself, whereas with a soft pull the lender (like Amex) does the work for you. If a cardholder has done something odd to trigger a F/R like running business expenses through a personal Amex, then it's to be expected. That's part of what it means to do business with Amex.

However there have been others who have been FRed with no good reason (that can be identified), and then it becomes an issue of integrity and respect. If I asked a long-time client who had always paid his bills on time to hand his financials/tax info over to me, he'd probably scoff and take his business elsewhere. Added to the burden placed upon the cardholder, I can see why some may not want to comply.

While I agree with your sentiments, I strongly suspect that no good (or discernable) reason doesn't mean no reason unfortunately. I don't think everyone here is brutally honest and entirely complete with the sins of their past... or in this case, present. I know personally I've never posted the amount of my albatross as an example, and I'm pretty open compared to a lot of folks with my credit idiocy.

Also I can't imagine that Amex decides to do FR's for absolutely no reason, like you suggest it doesn't make any sense with the possible immediate loss of a pontentially good future customer.

I don't know the full details of everyone's FR issue, but the ones who have generally described their situation in detail, deserved it. I can't find fault with Amex's practices on this count, if anything it keeps things less expensive for folks like me who are coloring inside the lines as a result of their vigilance. Personally if I trigger a FR, I'll just fork over the requisite documentation on the assumption I screwed the proverbial pooch somewhere.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

CreditScholar — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 05:28:27 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@CreditScholar wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
May I ask why the hate for the Amex FR process?

I don't think it's substantially different from any other lender's AA in terms of aggravation or incidence rate, and I'd personally rather have the chance to exonerate myself instead of the typical lender AA answer which amounts to "You suck, go bother someone else, kktnxbai!"

I don't consider it to be any more invasive personally than pulling my credit report, which they have unlimited access to anyway if they so choose. I may have to turn over tax returns for a mortgage someday, and I've already had to establish my income 3 times in the last year in order to continue my financial progress anyway. I'm probably missing something, or I'm just special with regards to my rebuilding process, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

I think one of the OPs major issues is that it places the burden of work upon himself, whereas with a soft pull the lender (like Amex) does the work for you. If a cardholder has done something odd to trigger a F/R like running business expenses through a personal Amex, then it's to be expected. That's part of what it means to do business with Amex.

However there have been others who have been FRed with no good reason (that can be identified), and then it becomes an issue of integrity and respect. If I asked a long-time client who had always paid his bills on time to hand his financials/tax info over to me, he'd probably scoff and take his business elsewhere. Added to the burden placed upon the cardholder, I can see why some may not want to comply.

While I agree with your sentiments, I strongly suspect that no good (or discernable) reason doesn't mean no reason unfortunately. I don't think everyone here is brutally honest and entirely complete with the sins of their past... or in this case, present. I know personally I've never posted the amount of my albatross as an example, and I'm pretty open compared to a lot of folks with my credit idiocy.

Also I can't imagine that Amex decides to do FR's for absolutely no reason, like you suggest it doesn't make any sense with the possible immediate loss of a pontentially good future customer.

I don't know the full details of everyone's FR issue, but the ones who have generally described their situation in detail, deserved it. I can't find fault with Amex's practices on this count, if anything it keeps things less expensive for folks like me who are coloring inside the lines as a result of their vigilance. Personally if I trigger a FR, I'll just fork over the requisite documentation on the assumption I screwed the proverbial pooch somewhere.

+1. I agree with this in that a FR is costly both in terms of time and money, so it isn't to be done lightly. Amex obviously has some triggers (even if they are unpublished) to help them decide who warrants a FR.

However just because the flags are raised doesn't automatically mean that you screwed up, even though it may look like you did. The IRS operates in a similar fashion in that it has parameters to determine what is normal and what isn't. Depending on how far outside "normal" you are, an audit may be conducted. Not all audits find evidence of wrong-doing, and for these people especially the additional work/stress of an audit is an exceptional pain in the ass. Then again, they're the IRS and you can't exactly refuse to comply. Amex isn't the IRS, therefore some have chosen to not comply and accept that their accounts will be shutdown.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 07:54:29 GMT

@CreditScholar wrote:
However there have been others who have been FRed with no good reason (that can be identified), and then it becomes an issue of integrity and respect.

This reasoning always bothered me. Partly because I just think "you've offended my honor!" every time I hear it (which is almost always). The main reason though, is by applying for credit, you're basically asking Amex for a favor...to lend you money. I see no reason why it would be offensive for them to check and make sure that their money will be safe if I decide to go spend it.

If I had a problem with the possibility of an FR, I would never app to Amex in the first place. I'm well aware of the practice of it (and I think the rate at which it happens and why it happens are sensationalized). I'd much rather be given the opportunity to keep my credit lines with them, as opposed to other banks that will just shut you down without any chance of appeal.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

navigatethis12 — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:32:11 GMT

I was finacially reviewed after spending $2000 on a new card. The income I put down was 35000, although they had it as 42000 somehow. So charging 6% of your income is somehow risky to them? The first charge I did with PNC was 4 or 5000, I cannot remember. They did block it at first because of the large amount, but when I confirmed it was me they let it go through. To date I have spent more than stated income with them and they have not said anything. With Chase and FIA I charged up to the limits on all of the cards I have with them multiple times and not a peep came out of them. FIA never even blocked the large purchases. I know every lender is different, but a financial review when others do not even care is a bit odd.

There is also the question of why do they not do this when you are first approved for the card? Should they not confirm income before they even issue the card. A bank does not let you take out a mortgage or loan first and then confirm what you stated was true. They do all of the paperwork first, and if it looks good, then they issue the loan. So I can understand people's apprehensiveness in going through with this.

I guess I got lucky though. The sheet I had to fill out, only had a few boxes to write in and then to sign it. Others have said they have to pay the Internal Revenue Service to receive some kind of sheet to then send to American Express.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:51:53 GMT

Talking from recent experience. I am a new Amex holder (Zync) - 1 1/2 months to be extact and have been FR. After speaking with the representative of what caused this - I just bought a new vechicle and had inquires. Now I knew about this practice thanks to the forum, I still do not like the way it is handled. Charging is suspended. What happens if I was on a cruise and this was the only card I took to use for vacation! Sending in the documentation is not that bad...they tell you what to fill out (you do only have 5 days to comply). I did not have to pay any fees to the IRS and never heard back from them until they sent an email stating they put a $3000.00 spending limit on my card and that this will be reviewed at a later date to see if it will be lifted. The process itself was painless....but it did take 3 weeks to complete. Did I think it was invasive...not really, credit card companies always ask for your income..Amex just calls you out on it. I was concerned as last years income was about less than what I stated (new income from new job). I was not asked to explain this or provide current paystubs which I was willing to do. Only thing I learned from this - I will ALWAYS carry a back up card.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 15:21:28 GMT

+1 on that. AMEX is just doing it's due diligence to protect itself. However, I always carry a back up card in the event an FR is triggered. I used to use my AMEX PRG heavily and have dropped off spending signifigantly on it and pushing on using my Chase SP instead due to this remote possiblity. If they were to FR me, I'd comply but I'd be a bit miffed. I PIF and have never missed a single payment and an FR would be a kick in the pants.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Revelate — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 16:28:19 GMT

@navigatethis12 wrote:
I was finacially reviewed after spending $2000 on a new card. The income I put down was 35000, although they had it as 42000 somehow. So charging 6% of your income is somehow risky to them? The first charge I did with PNC was 4 or 5000, I cannot remember. They did block it at first because of the large amount, but when I confirmed it was me they let it go through. To date I have spent more than stated income with them and they have not said anything. With Chase and FIA I charged up to the limits on all of the cards I have with them multiple times and not a peep came out of them. FIA never even blocked the large purchases. I know every lender is different, but a financial review when others do not even care is a bit odd.

Technically speaking taking that $35000 number, while that's roughly 6% of your annual gross income, that's not the way Amex likely factors it. They almost certainly divide your estimate of post-tax income by 12 from eons ago as charge cards are all term one month (probably applies to their revolvers too but that's just a pure swag). Ballparking that's what $5K tax burden assuming single / nothing fancy?

So by napkin math, $30000/12 = $2500, and as such you spent 80% of your monthly income. I can see Amex's potentially raising a flag on that one.

CS: this sort of example is what I meant by my probably screwing up somewhere: if my expenditures outstrip my reported income or come close to it in a given month, Amex may have an issue with it expecially as I don't have any history with them to date. Going to have to see frankly, but hopefully I don't blow it this month, even though I'm of the opinion it's not a big deal, I'm a little on edge that I'll trigger it even with $2500 spend at a monthly post-tax income of roughly $6800 reported.

Should've pushed that bedding purchase till next reporting statement.... this forum does wonky things to my head sometimes .

Re: Amex’s Financial review

jsickz32 — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 16:34:42 GMT

Some people spend a certain amount on a brand new card cuz they wanna "SHOW" they could be good costumers for the ccc. I know you can run all expenses and bill thru that card to show high spendings, specially on a charge card maybe to have get your NPSL raised

Re: Amex’s Financial review

jsickz32 — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 16:35:36 GMT

Damn phone!.
Anyways i meant higher but i think you should take it easy for the first months.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

TheConductor — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 17:10:07 GMT

For what it's worth, not everyone even gets the possibility of a financial review.

In my "first marriage" to AmEx as it were (we have a very off-again on-again relationship ), they closed my card with 11 months of perfect payment history and offered no chance of financial review. At the time I had no new baddies on my report in those 11 months, so whatever they saw I didn't see it. I specifically asked them if I could voluntarily have them review my finances....and they said no dice.

Their loss in the end, since a month later my first annual fee would have come due.

So far, the "second marriage" has come with no FR and zero hassle. But if they were to want to FR me, I'd probably comply. The quality of their customer service and card benefits is sufficiently high that I regard the relationship with them as one well worth working to maintain.

If I got the same shenanigans from the likes of Credit One, Capital One, or even BofA, I'd kick them to the curb and find another lender. The quality just isn't there, and I'm not going to work for it.

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Creditaddict — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 17:13:17 GMT

I thought we had pretty much got confirmation from Amex long ago that FR's are random by system kind of like Bankruptcy in United States... Only what 3% I think is what was said after Housewife NJ people got audited.... did we really ever hear before that of someone getting audited and then almost arrested for it? no... without reading on this forum I don't think most of us would think any differently about an Amex FR

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Epcot — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:00:44 GMT

Has anyone been through one just to go through it again years later?

Re: Amex’s Financial review

swpopham — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:15:51 GMT

we were on number 4 before sara called and closed the cards and told them to shove it! every 6-7 months it would happen, the wanted hers, mine, ours. her's again etc.... always some complaint from their end.! chase has never jacked with us the way amex did

Re: Amex’s Financial review

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:35:32 GMT

Every 6-7 months??!! Aren't they just requesting the same information from the IRS then? That seems redundant if they already requested the transcripts to keep requesting the same information...no matter how many times they get them the information would be the same I ws hoping that once I went through it I wouldn't have to for awhile (if ever again). Anyone else been FR'ed more than once??