topic Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13 in Credit Cards

AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

SevenNEW — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 02:06:40 GMT

It was too good to last (for a long time)... This is what I found in the latest Billing Statement:

Blue Cash Preferred Reward Program
We are changing the amount of Reward Dollars earned on supermarket purchases. For the first $6,000 in U.S. stand-alone supermarket purchases during each calendar year, you will continue to earn 6%. For those purchases above $6,000 in that calendar year, you will earn only 1%. This means you will earn fewer Reward Dollars for supermarket purchases in excess of $6,000 in each calendar year. This change becomes effective when your account renews on or after January 15, 2013.

Still a good card, but the trend worries me.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

youngandcreditwrthy — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:13:48 GMT

LOL

still a million times better than Discover's $1500 limit on 5% cashback offers.

pahahah

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

flowfaster — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:19:17 GMT

What is lol about it is if you max out the discover categories you will end up with more than u will the BCP. Discover-$300 and BCP-$285. How is $285 a million times better? Plus discover usually tosses in a 5% grocery category as well.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

CreditEd — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:20:44 GMT

@SevenNEW wrote:
It was too good to last (for a long time)... This is what I found in the latest Billing Statement:

Blue Cash Preferred Reward Program
We are changing the amount of Reward Dollars earned on supermarket purchases. For the first $6,000 in U.S. stand-alone supermarket purchases during each calendar year, you will continue to earn 6%. For those purchases above $6,000 in that calendar year, you will earn only 1%. This means you will earn fewer Reward Dollars for supermarket purchases in excess of $6,000 in each calendar year. This change becomes effective when your account renews on or after January 15, 2013.

Still a good card, but the trend worries me.

Great way to celebrate MLK day???

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

webhopper — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:28:56 GMT

I think a lot of folks were abusing the system by buying gift cards at the grocery store. 6k is not a bad amount for groceries... My family is small, but we spend maybe $500 every two months. 6k limit would be more than adequate for us. Our grocery store doesn't take Amex though Also, a lot of groceries are purchased at Sams, who also does not take Amex. So the card we use is Discover for groceries.

I realize that grocery prices are different accross the country, so a lot of folks have different amounts of money spent for the same amount of food.

Also my family is odd because we don't buy much meat. My husband and daughter hunt and fish, so our diet is largely supplemented by wild game, (pork, deer, squirrel, rabbit, fowl, trout, catfish, shrimp, crawfish)

The only type of meat we buy is beef, we eat beef that we have cooked probably once every two weeks. and chicken... We eat chicken probably 2 times per week.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

youngandcreditwrthy — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:32:50 GMT

lol... guess it depends on what you spend on... 6% is still higher than 5%... but of course, you have to stick to the right categories.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

flowfaster — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:57:45 GMT

@youngandcreditwrthy wrote:
lol... guess it depends on what you spend on... 6% is still higher than 5%... but of course, you have to stick to the right categories.

LOL you still don't get it. BCP has an AF of $75 making the 6% less than 5%. It has nothing to do with categories and everthing to do with math. lol

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

youngandcreditwrthy — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:59:00 GMT

OHHHH!!!! hahah.. I get it.

this is why I have BCE; I hate AFs. LOL :-D

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

Cdnewmanpac — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:02:57 GMT

@webhopper wrote:
I think a lot of folks were abusing the system by buying gift cards at the grocery store. 6k is not a bad amount for groceries... My family is small, but we spend maybe $500 every two months. 6k limit would be more than adequate for us. Our grocery store doesn't take Amex though Also, a lot of groceries are purchased at Sams, who also does not take Amex. So the card we use is Discover for groceries.

I realize that grocery prices are different accross the country, so a lot of folks have different amounts of money spent for the same amount of food.

Also my family is odd because we don't buy much meat. My husband and daughter hunt and fish, so our diet is largely supplemented by wild game, (pork, deer, squirrel, rabbit, fowl, trout, catfish, shrimp, crawfish)

The only type of meat we buy is beef, we eat beef that we have cooked probably once every two weeks. and chicken... We eat chicken probably 2 times per week.

+1. People on some of the frequent flyer blogs had schemes for purchasing 10s of thousands of dollars in gift cards and vanilla products. Since Amex is both an issuer and a network, this pattern could be confirmed across multiple accounts. That was not the intent of the card, so Amex took action to limit this loophole. Anyone who has been following the news over the last year can expect rewards cards to all move in this direction and Amex even more so, given today's earnings report and wall street's reaction.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

Anonymous — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:19:35 GMT

That math assumes that there is a grocery 5% category available all year on Discover though, which is absolutely not the case. The best I've seen is two quarters out of the year, so the most you'd get back on Discover would be $150 on $3,000 of purchases. Assuming you met the $3k spend requirement with other purchases, and got a full 1% back on another $3k of groceries during the year, you're looking at an additional $30, for a total grocery cash back of $180 on $6,000 of spending with Discover.

With BCP, you get 6% on $6,000, which is $360, less the $75 annual fee, for a total of $285 back on $6,000 of groceries. BCP is clearly superior to Discover when it comes to grocery purchases, if you are going to max out the $6,000 annual limit. If you don't max it out, then it'll depend on your level of spending.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

TheConductor — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:59:08 GMT

What is lol about it is if you max out the discover categories you will end up with more than u will the BCP. Discover-$300 and BCP-$285. How is $285 a million times better? Plus discover usually tosses in a 5% grocery category as well.

....
LOL you still don't get it. BCP has an AF of $75 making the 6% less than 5%. It has nothing to do with categories and everthing to do with math. lol

Well, your math is flawed and some of your assumptions are faulty.

First, let's look at the Discover 5% categories for 2012:

Jan-Mar - Gas Stations / Museums / Movies

Apr-Jun - Restaurants / Movies

Jul - Sep - Gas Stations / Theme Parks / Movies

Oct - Dec - Dept. Stores / Online Shopping

Each of these maxes out at $1500 per quarter, so you can earn a grand total of $6000 *0.05 = $300 per annum. That's IF you manage to max out at $1500 each quarter. Frankly, practically no one goes to movies nearly enough for that category to help significantly, and theme parks is a weak category unless you live next to Disney World. The other categories work alright and could probably get you there, even though contrary to your assertion there is no grocery category thrown in. But hey, let's assume even without a groceries category you earn the maximum $300 on bonus categories, plus your regular .25% on the first $3000 of the rest of your spending and 1% on everything else you buy after that.

With the BCP, you can earn a max of $6000 * .06 = $360 per annum on groceries. But there's that annual fee, so yes, you are correct the net earnings are $285. What you've swept under the rug, though, is that this is not the end of your bonus earnings potential. You can earn 3% on all gas station and department store purchases with no annual cap, and 1% on all other spending with no silly .25 % on the first $3000.

For the sake of argument, let's say you spend an additional $9000 per year through your card that is not in the 6% or 5% categories. And let's conservatively say $1000 of that is gas and $1000 is department stores, and the rest is other stuff. Your rewards on that spending are $7.50 + $60 = 67.50 for the Discover; $30 + $30 + $70 = $130 for the BCP. Leaving the totals at $367.50 Discover vs $415 BCP.

LOLOLOLOL

Go less conservative and say $2000 each in gas and department stores? $367.50 Discover vs $455 BCP. God, what a terrible card the BCP is after this change!!

Point being...you can LOL all you want, but ultimately the relative value of these cards is dependent on how the individual holding the card spends their money. That's why I think using a personal finance tool like Quicken or Mint.com is so valuable - when you know where your own personal spend goes, and in what amounts, it's easy to choose the right cards for you.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

flowfaster — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:23:08 GMT

@TheConductor wrote:
What is lol about it is if you max out the discover categories you will end up with more than u will the BCP. Discover-$300 and BCP-$285. How is $285 a million times better? Plus discover usually tosses in a 5% grocery category as well.

....
LOL you still don't get it. BCP has an AF of $75 making the 6% less than 5%. It has nothing to do with categories and everthing to do with math. lol
Well, your math is flawed and some of your assumptions are faulty.

First, let's look at the Discover 5% categories for 2012:
Jan-Mar - Gas Stations / Museums / Movies
Apr-Jun - Restaurants / Movies
Jul - Sep - Gas Stations / Theme Parks / Movies
Oct - Dec - Dept. Stores / Online Shopping

Each of these maxes out at $1500 per quarter, so you can earn a grand total of $6000 *0.05 = $300 per annum. That's IF you manage to max out at $1500 each quarter. Frankly, practically no one goes to movies nearly enough for that category to help significantly, and theme parks is a weak category unless you live next to Disney World. The other categories work alright and could probably get you there, even though contrary to your assertion there is no grocery category thrown in. But hey, let's assume even without a groceries category you earn the maximum $300 on bonus categories, plus your regular .25% on the first $3000 of the rest of your spending and 1% on everything else you buy after that.

With the BCP, you can earn a max of $6000 * .06 = $360 per annum on groceries. But there's that annual fee, so yes, you are correct the net earnings are $285. What you've swept under the rug, though, is that this is not the end of your bonus earnings potential. You can earn 3% on all gas station and department store purchases with no annual cap, and 1% on all other spending with no silly .25 % on the first $3000.

For the sake of argument, let's say you spend an additional $9000 per year through your card that is not in the 6% or 5% categories. And let's conservatively say $1000 of that is gas and $1000 is department stores, and the rest is other stuff. Your rewards on that spending are $7.50 + $60 = 67.50 for the Discover; $30 + $30 + $70 = $130 for the BCP. Leaving the totals at $367.50 Discover vs $415 BCP.

LOLOLOLOL

Go less conservative and say $2000 each in gas and department stores? $367.50 Discover vs $455 BCP. God, what a terrible card the BCP is after this change!!

Point being...you can LOL all you want, but ultimately the relative value of these cards is dependent on how the individual holding the card spends their money. That's why I think using a personal finance tool like Quicken or Mint.com is so valuable - when you know where your own personal spend goes, and in what amounts, it's easy to choose the right cards for you.

Discover has tossed in a grocery bonus month for the last 2 years, I think it is july. If you don't have the card you wouldn't know I guess. My math is spot on.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

TheConductor — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 21:03:49 GMT

With or without the one month of grocery bonus, your math may be technically correct but it is misleading to compare the maximum bonus possible on Discover to only the groceries category on AmEx. And as I said, ultimately what matters is one's actual individual spend, not some theoretical max-spend fantasy.

To drag the thread back on topic, the only people AmEx BCP has actually "worsened" for are the ones spending more than $6k per year on groceries. For everyone else, the value proposition of the card remains the same - if you're earning enough from it to justify the annual fee, hooray! Life goes on, and your card still rocks.

If you're not earning enough to justify that annual fee, the Discover is one worth looking at. Know where your money is going, and it's easy to choose among the various 5%+ cards like Citi Forward, Discover More, Chase Freedom, AmEx Blue Cash Preferred, etc.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

Anonymous — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:02:12 GMT

+1 to TheConductor.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

flowfaster — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:05:04 GMT

I understand what your saying and they are all valid points. They are different tools for different jobs. I was just responding to the "BCP is a billion times better than Discover" comment. The poster did not say better than Discover at groceries, because like you said, one has to look at the whole picture . We are both correct, I just may have miscommunicated. Still though if your looking to maximize cash back, one should already have all the cashback cards!

On topic: This month I don't know what happened but my family spent $677 on groceries and $310 on gas. I am definitely affected by this change. I now have to rely on my Freedom and Discover to make up anything over $6000.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

crunching_numbers — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:28:10 GMT

@webhopper wrote:
I think a lot of folks were abusing the system by buying gift cards at the grocery store. 6k is not a bad amount for groceries... My family is small, but we spend maybe $500 every two months. 6k limit would be more than adequate for us. Our grocery store doesn't take Amex though Also, a lot of groceries are purchased at Sams, who also does not take Amex. So the card we use is Discover for groceries.

I realize that grocery prices are different accross the country, so a lot of folks have different amounts of money spent for the same amount of food.

Also my family is odd because we don't buy much meat. My husband and daughter hunt and fish, so our diet is largely supplemented by wild game, (pork, deer, squirrel, rabbit, fowl, trout, catfish, shrimp, crawfish)

The only type of meat we buy is beef, we eat beef that we have cooked probably once every two weeks. and chicken... We eat chicken probably 2 times per week.

I will max out the BCP, and Freedom, and Discover (both mine and DH's) for the grocery time now. I will use each when I can to get the most. When I max out BCP then I will stop using it for groceries altogether. I will use something else.1% is an insult.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

flowfaster — Thu, 18 Oct 2012 22:36:56 GMT

Well its tricky because the Freedom and Discover's grocery category is in the middle of the year. If I have to, I can switch my Cash+ to grocery and get 2.5% back. Right now I have it set to drug stores.

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 05:36:56 GMT

You folks doing that math are forgetting some of the other huge Amex benefits...... the below are just SOME of the promos I've been able to take advantage of in the past 12 months - and keeping in mind you can take advantage of these and other promos once on EACH CARD you have (including authorized user cards on the same account which have no additional cost or fee). I got more than my annual fee back in just promotions. This doesn't include various credits from the Amex Gift Chain promotion last Christmas.

Congratulations! By using your synced American Express® Card ending in XXXXX, you saved $20.00 on your purchase at Best Buy. Expect a statement credit in 3-5 days.

Thank you for using your synced American Express® Card ending in XXXXX at Shell Oil! Your transaction is being processed. If your purchase qualifies for a $5.00 credit, the credit will appear on your statement within 3-5 days.

Congratulations! By using your synced American Express® Card ending in XXXXX, you saved $10.00 on your purchase at Staples. Expect a statement credit in 3-5 days.

Congratulations! By using your synced American Express® Card ending in XXXXX, you saved $10.00 on your purchase at Panera Bread. Expect a statement credit in 3-5 days.

Congratulations! By using your synced American Express® Card ending in XXXXX, you saved $5.00 on your purchase at McDonald's. Expect a statement credit in 3-5 days.

Congratulations! By using your synced American Express® Card ending in XXXXX, you saved $50.00 on your purchase of $102.50 at Ticketmaster. Expect a statement credit in 3-5 days.

Congratulations! By using your synced American Express® Card ending in XXXXX, you saved $5.00 on your purchase at McDonalds. Expect a statement credit in 3-5 days.

Congratulations! By using your synced American Express® Card ending in XXXXX, you saved $10.00 on your purchase of $10.00 at Best Buy. Expect a statement credit in 3-5 days.

Congratulations, you completed all qualifying transactions on your Card ending in XXXXX. Expect a statement credit in 3-5 days. ($25) Thank you for supporting Small Business Saturday®!

Re: AMEX BCP Worsening Conditions Effective 1/15/13

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 04:29:03 GMT

I find this change a little annoying, especially considering the AF is due in a few weeks.

That being said, they know I won't cancel the BCP.