topic Re: Staggering applications in Credit Cards

Staggering applications

7PM789 — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 05:15:33 GMT

I have been considering which cards I would like to get in the future and came up with what seems like a good game plan. I would like input to see what the community thinks..

The main idea is to apply for two cards every 6 months allowing them to age together. Each would serve a purpose.

I plan on apping for the C.S.P. (travel) and the citi dividend (rotating categories) once my new G.E.C.R.B. cards hit six months.

Then I will apply for a U.S. bank cash + (bills %5) and a local credit unions visa card (build a relationship with another local c.u.)

Then a bcp (groceries %6 and backdate)

Finally once I gain enough courage a penfed platinum rewards (gas %5)

I will of course never allow my utilization to go above %9 and continue to pif every month on time.

As time goes by these cards may be swapped out depending on what is on the market at that point in time considering cards and reward structures come and go. Again the main idea is to stagger them 6 months apart to gain back points lost to inquiries and pairing them so they age together.

I apologize if I am rambling. Thank you in advance...

Re: Staggering applications

distantarray — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 05:23:26 GMT

personally unless you have some huge purchases coming up, most people tend to go on a app spree. Unless your in the market for a new car or a house anytime soon I would apply for it til I started getting declined, applying for harder to get cards first. BCP then Chase Sapphire , US Cash+ , Citi Dividend seems like the way to go in order from what I understand about them. Amex is stricter

Quicker you get things, the quicker they'll all age together.

example is if you had no cards ever, and got 2 now, in 6months your AAOA will 6months, get 2 more cards then and you'll have AAOA of 3months. If you got 4 cards now, then your AAOA is 6months.

but since you already have Amex already personally I would apply for it in January. Because of how backdating works. Backdating takes the month of your new application (Jan if you apply then) and takes the member start year. So if you get a BCP approved in January your BCP card (assuming you started in 2011) will show an age of 24 months when it first reports.

Also remember that if you get approved other companies will not know about the other if you do it on the same day since inquiries take atleast a day to post to your credit report, so it won't be a deciding factor the number of inquiries if you do it all at once. Also remember that if you over app when the companies run a soft check you could get all your accounts closed due to credit pyramiding risks.

Re: Staggering applications

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 05:50:31 GMT

How many is too many?

Apping for 6 plus the 5 you already have.

I know many ppl on here that have many many cards. I tend to think that only 2-3 are enough.

Of course SD and cancelling ones you don't use/need is an option, but again 2-3 too me is plenty.

Re: Staggering applications

Revelate — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 05:57:52 GMT

Pretty much what distantarray states.

I'm one of the heavier proponents of app sprees; the math just doesn't work out over the mid/long term to do them in batches assuming you can get approved for them earlier, and everything is time dependent in the FICO model anyway.

End of the day, if there's a card that you want and you're able to obtain it (vis a vis if you can get a CSP you can get a BCP 98% of the time) then it's in one's best interest FICO-wise to just establish the tradeline as soon as humanly possible. Backdating from Amex does factor into changing that somewhat, doesn't make sense to apply in October when you can wait for January as an example, but other than that or if you're planning on a mortgage or possibly car in the next year, app sprees win out FICO wise: short-term increased damage, longer term overwhelmingly positive when you napkin math the factors.

The constant application method every six months really doesn't hold up either for FICO or for the current economic environment; however, much of the current common wisdom on this forum was garnered in the belt-tightening days by the banks and everyone proceeded more cautiously as a result. I don't see the purpose of stretching out the pain of inquiries and new tradelines any longer than required.

Re: Staggering applications

distantarray — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 05:57:46 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
How many is too many?

Apping for 6 plus the 5 you already have.

I know many ppl on here that have many many cards. I tend to think that only 2-3 are enough.

Of course SD and cancelling ones you don't use/need is an option, but again 2-3 too me is plenty.

I don't think it's nessasary to have every card, cash back ones are ok, but on the ones based off points becareful, cause if you don't use it enough you'll never be able to spend it =p

Few things like we all need Gas so PenFed 5% is nice BCP 6% back on groceries US Bank Cash+ for 5% on restaurants and 5% on billpay covers almost everything for me, I don't spend too much out of those circles to really matter imo. Although Discover more has a great category for Holiday shopping 5% back online and department stores.

Re: Staggering applications

bettercreditguy1 — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 08:37:05 GMT

Apply, carry, and use credit cards for your lifesytlye needs. If you fly, get an airlines reward card. If you lodge away, a rewards card for that. There are no wrong or right cards.

I too believe you can have too many cards. Two three revolvers, so you have an alternative/backup in the event a branded card is not accepted. As for store cards, sure, go for it if you shop regularly there. You will achieve additional instore discounts on their merchandise.

Re: Staggering applications

distantarray — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:46:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
How many is too many?

I would probably say don't go past 6 at one time, but people have been known to get 26 inquiries -_-; when going on a app spree avoid companies like capital one who pulls all three bureaus at once and save those for the end if you really want one like the Venture card which is pretty good.

Re: Staggering applications

Hightechredneck — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 12:46:41 GMT

I do in in bunches. For instance last June I did a spree for auto loans, probably 10 or so all within a two week peroid. Those witll all age off at the same time this June. I also had another this past September/October, those will all age off at the same time too. Hopefully my CS will improve after all the June 11 age off.

Re: Staggering applications

youngandcreditwrthy — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:44:59 GMT

Lol I like to app in bunches or on restless boring nights.

From my perspective, I don't think you can have too many cards ASSUMING YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE. I am 23 with 18 or 20 cards...

However, I use them frugally and responsibly. 15 of them have no balance, just there for util/credit history.

It's a fact that... The longer your credit history is, the more credit you have, the more positive accounts you have, the higher the limits you have, the better your FICO is....

:-)

Re: Staggering applications

Revelate — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:48:55 GMT

Grin, how responsible can you be with them if you don't know exactly how many you even have?

All kidding aside, more is not necessarily better; I find the thought of 20 cards a little horrifying for a few reasons when I play "what would an underwriter think?"

I'm not sure where the more positive accounts you have is better for FICO came about nor am I confident it's correct; however, everything suffers diminishing returns in the model anyway and for scoring purposes three is just fine, twenty isn't needed, and utilization can be handled via payment timing without substantial effort.

I don't see an upside of being able to play a reasonable facsimile of 52-pickup with one's credit cards .

Re: Staggering applications

Duncanrr — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 15:27:02 GMT

My magic number will be 10-12 total open cards. Im at 7 right now but two of them are secured cards that will eventually get the axe. That leaves me with 5 cards to acquire: AMEX SPG, AMEX Gold or better charge, CSP, a Citi card and maybe a discover card. (also considering BCP). I dont want to manage more than 10 but will be willing to go up to 12 while Im in building mode.

To OP, app in a manner in which you are comfortable. FICO scores are not the end all be all. I used the app spree method recently to great success and will use that method again after refi in June. Just have a plan and follow it and you should be fine.

Re: Staggering applications

SevenNEW — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 15:38:47 GMT

@Duncanrr wrote:
My magic number will be 10-12 total open cards. Im at 7 right now but two of them are secured cards that will eventually get the axe. That leaves me with 5 cards to acquire: AMEX SPG, AMEX Gold or better charge, CSP, a Citi card and maybe a discover card. (also considering BCP). I dont want to manage more than 10 but will be willing to go up to 12 while Im in building mode.

To OP, app in a manner in which you are comfortable. FICO scores are not the end all be all. I used the app spree method recently to great success and will use that method again after refi in June. Just have a plan and follow it and you should be fine.

I think 5 or 6 is more than enough. I now have an old C1 MC (in the sock drawer), Chase Freedom, and Amex BCP. I would like to have a Venture One for fee-less foreign transactions, and perhaps another Master Card, but I feel I am pretty much done.

Re: Staggering applications

Duncanrr — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 15:43:31 GMT

@SevenNEW wrote:
@Duncanrr wrote:
My magic number will be 10-12 total open cards. Im at 7 right now but two of them are secured cards that will eventually get the axe. That leaves me with 5 cards to acquire: AMEX SPG, AMEX Gold or better charge, CSP, a Citi card and maybe a discover card. (also considering BCP). I dont want to manage more than 10 but will be willing to go up to 12 while Im in building mode.

To OP, app in a manner in which you are comfortable. FICO scores are not the end all be all. I used the app spree method recently to great success and will use that method again after refi in June. Just have a plan and follow it and you should be fine.
I think 5 or 6 is more than enough. I now have an old C1 MC (in the sock drawer), Chase Freedom, and Amex BCP. I would like to have a Venture One for fee-less foreign transactions, and perhaps another Master Card, but I feel I am pretty much done.

I agree 5 or 6 is enough. As Im building my credit back up 10-12 (prefer 10) is the max number I want to have during my building. Once I get to a good spot, I'll probably widdle down the 10 or 12 some. I just know I dont want to manage any more cards than that.

Re: Staggering applications

7PM789 — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:01:29 GMT

I don't want more than 12 cards. The reasoning I had behind staggering them was that I've read about how people have been previously denied signature/world cards because they haven't had 5k plus tradelines for a long enough period of time. I've only had a 5k tradeline since the beginning of the month and I don't believe that is long enough to get approved for a C.S.P. Personally I don't like the idea of a large app spree (3+ apps) because it could be read as desperation/need for new credit. I just want to maximize my rewards in the areas of spending that are inevitable like gas, bills, groceries...

Re: Staggering applications

Duncanrr — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 16:12:41 GMT

@7PM789 wrote:
I don't want more than 12 cards. The reasoning I had behind staggering them was that I've read about how people have been previously denied signature/world cards because they haven't had 5k plus tradelines for a long enough period of time. I've only had a 5k tradeline since the beginning of the month and I don't believe that is long enough to get approved for a C.S.P. Personally I don't like the idea of a large app spree (3+ apps) because it could be read as desperation/need for new credit. I just want to maximize my rewards in the areas of spending that are inevitable like gas, bills, groceries...

Thats why when you do an app spree you should keep your utilization very low (below 9%). I never like carrying balances and havent paid a single payment on interest since my rebuild in June (no credit cards 7 years prior to that). I try to keep reported balances low as well but I always PIF.

Re: Staggering applications

TheConductor — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:51:16 GMT

Mostly I prefer to spree, but the two exceptions I would make are waiting for a backdated AmEx account to report before making more apps (to get a better AAoA when applying for other cards - this is what I did after getting my Zync, but then I decided to just wait until January before doing a new spree), or waiting for a stellar limit to report (in the hope that the high limit will encourage other creditors to do likewise).

Most of my lifetime apping has been done in sprees, though. As long as you don't go overboard with it (I generally aim for 5-6 apps, or 4 approvals, whichever comes first), it seems to be the best approach. As Revelate noted, the mid-to-long-term effect for AAoA is better, plus opening all of those new limits at once makes managing utilization easier when you're trying to churn a lot of cash through a new card that has a bonus after $X of spend.