topic Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please.... in Credit Cards

Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Red1Blue — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:23:19 GMT

I am totally lost and confused with Amex and their Approval Process. Please, help me....

Just yesterday day I got off the phone to find out why my app for blue is rejected. They said ok wait few months and app for it.

Now this evening I login to Amex account right Under the Summary of Accounts there is "this bright shiny invitation to apply for Blue Cash."

What is going on with me and Amex? Should I respond to the invitation and app for it?

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:26:41 GMT

you are really od ing on amex give it rest dude check into the AMEX sleigh center

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:27:37 GMT

I think that these "pre-approvals" (which really seem to be invitations to apply) are generated from a really simplified look at credit scores and little else. So it might be coming from your general credit picture, rather than from evaluating you, concorduser. It's the equivalent of the invitations you get in the mail --they're offered to those who fit a really vague and general profile. Once you really apply, then the bright lights and magnifiers come out.

Seems like there were an awful lot of denials from those who tried this site a couple of weeks ago.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

SonorityGenius — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:29:08 GMT

yes really.. you have plenty of Amex cards and are just pushing the lion in the teeth..

If the actuall app and manual review concluded DENIAL and a sweet apologetic "you can ofcourse, apply again in a few months" (to make you feel better, they can and may deny again anyway!)

than the online preapproval doesnt mean anything

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Red1Blue — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:29:56 GMT

Hi Hauling, I think it is Cheddar who said or some one said in one of the posts if you see the flashing link underneath the "Summary of Accounts" It is preapproval.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Red1Blue — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:35:50 GMT

I said, heck with it and filled out the App. It is declined saying I have a Recovery Card Product. I am not sure what they mean by that? I know they are talking about the Oasis card I have. But what do they mean by that, I should close that card in order to get another card?

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:41:35 GMT

@Red1Blue wrote:

I said, heck with it and filled out the App. It is declined saying I have a Recovery Card Product. I am not sure what they mean by that? I know they are talking about the Oasis card I have. But what do they mean by that, I should close that card in order to get another card?

I think that they are saying, "Wait."

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:23:09 GMT

concorduser wrote:
I said, heck with it and filled out the App. It is declined saying I have a Recovery Card Product. I am not sure what they mean by that? I know they are talking about the Oasis card I have. But what do they mean by that, I should close that card in order to get another card?

Concord, didn't you and I and a few others have this exact same discussion just a few days ago about some other card you applied for?

Seriously, you need to slooooooooowwwww down with the apps. Really. I can't count the number of times I've seen you say, "OK I'm done for a while now. I'll wait a few months to do another app."

Then I turn around and see another post where you're apping for yet ANOTHER Amex card!

Give the apping a rest for a while. Seriously.

And you know I'm only saying this with your best interest in mind.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:27:27 GMT

@Red1Blue wrote:

I said, heck with it and filled out the App. It is declined saying I have a Recovery Card Product. I am not sure what they mean by that? I know they are talking about the Oasis card I have. But what do they mean by that, I should close that card in order to get another card?

Isn't there a process that you have to go through, a certain amount of time, before you officially "graduate" from Oasis? The program has a structure and certain expectations, and since you entered into it, I think that you should abide by that structure and those expectations.

American Express isn't going anywhere soon. All these cards will be there once you have done what you need to with their program.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:47:12 GMT

haulingthescoreup wrote:

Isn't there a process that you have to go through, a certain amount of time, before you officially "graduate" from Oasis? The program has a structure and certain expectations, and since you entered into it, I think that you should abide by that structure and those expectations.

American Express isn't going anywhere soon. All these cards will be there once you have done what you need to with their program.

I don't have any experience with Oasis myself, but from what I've read, I don't think there's an actual "graduation" process. But I have read that they seem to have implemented a couple of new rules for Oasis members. 1) They won't give you another credit card until you close your Optima you got through Oasis, and 2) your Oasis Optima card will never be eligible for a CLI for its entire lifetime.

I believe these are relatively new rules, implemented at about the same time as they went to the new 6-month wait for CLIs.

What makes this difficult for current Oasis participants is that you never know at point Amex will have deemed you worthy to be approved outside of Oasis, but you also can't find that out until you voluntarily remove yourself from Oasis by closing your card.

Must be frustrating, I'm sure.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:55:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I don't have any experience with Oasis myself, but from what I've read, I don't think there's an actual "graduation" process. But I have read that they seem to have implemented a couple of new rules for Oasis members. 1) They won't give you another credit card until you close your Optima you got through Oasis, and 2) your Oasis Optima card will never be eligible for a CLI for its entire lifetime.

I believe these are relatively new rules, implemented at about the same time as they went to the new 6-month wait for CLIs.
What makes this difficult for current Oasis participants is that you never know at point Amex will have deemed you worthy to be approved outside of Oasis, but you also can't find that out until you voluntarily remove yourself from Oasis by closing your card.

Must be frustrating, I'm sure.

Ouch, OK, I understand now. That is a stinker, to be sure.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:57:45 GMT

Concord

It sounds like to me you slipped through the cracks getting that Platinum in the first place, so you might want to leave well enough alone. I have heard (read) countless times that they do not give you another card if you have their Oasis/Optima. I say do not mess this up.

Can you say F/R? (Even though I have never heard of one on a plat) But seriously this is the activity that scares them (appoholics). At least get a chance to use your platinum first. Have you even had the opportunity to activate it yet?

I personally no longer believe you when you say you are not going to app (I'm sure I am not alone).

Cool it with the erratic behavior and let you scores recoup. You have good cards, so let them age.

I think this is my last time saying something about this. No wait I know it is.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 03:11:59 GMT

concorduser wrote:
Hi Hauling, I think it is Cheddar who said or some one said in one of the posts if you see the flashing link underneath the "Summary of Accounts" It is preapproval.

Didn't see this post before, but since I saw my name it I feel compelled to respond.

Yes, an Amex rep told me very bluntly that if you see it at the top of the screen on your Summary of Accounts page, it is a preapproval targeted specifically to you.

HOWEVER...

Do not forget that a preapproval does not mean automatic approval. There are countless stories of people receiving unsolicited preapprovals (not just from Amex) only to be declined when they actually applied. I agree with HTSU that they are probably only going by very high-level criteria when their system generates these preapprovals. Once you apply though, most likely one of the first things the system checks is "Does the applicant have an active recovery product?" If the answer is yes, it generates an instant decline.

I know it's frustrating, because you would think they would know that before they even preapprove you! The thing is, the system doesn't actually look for that piece of the puzzle until you submit your application.

Look at the HSBC preapproval link as another example. Say you have an Orchard Card and go to the HSBC preapp site and see that you've been preapproved for the HSBC MC. So you fill out your app...only to be declined due to the fact that "You currently have the maximum number of HSBC card products." But I was preapproved, you say. Same thing here. The system doesn't actually check to see if you have another HSBC card until you do the real-deal application.

So, I hope this helps sort out the confusion with the preapprovals and whatnot. As I and the others have said, please slow down on the apps and let your cards age. And by all means, don't apply for any more Amex cards until you have given the ones you have lots of use and plenty of time to age.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Red1Blue — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 03:21:07 GMT

I really dont care about new cards. I have not apped for any card other than this puzzling Amex. As a matter of fact I closed my NMB Account today and slowly clear thing up.

I really want to know from Amex point of view what is what. I have seen so many people post they got the Charge/Credit Card after Oasis. If they say if you sign for Amex Oasis card, you can not do this or can not do that. There is nothing in clear writing about the policy.

Looks to me they keep making up the rules as they go along. I am trying to figure what it means by "Active Recovery Product". If they keep flashing on your face "apply for Blue with preapproved message" What would you do. I want to see. For that they want to do FR, by almeans they can keep both my Oasis and Platinum Cards.

I have BOA 99/500 Card. I know upfront after 9 months they will make the account unsecured if I keep up my side of the bargain. It is black and white. I have no problem with it. I have FNB Omaha Secured card, they will make it unsecure after 21 months.

There is nothing that said if you sign for this, you can not do that or you can not get this. It is puzzling how they are doing with what. Looks to me there is no set of rules. Just do as they please.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 03:30:56 GMT

concorduser wrote:
I really dont care about new cards. I have not apped for any card other than this puzzling Amex. As a matter of fact I closed my NMB Account today and slowly clear thing up.

I really want to know from Amex point of view what is what. I have seen so many people post they got the Charge/Credit Card after Oasis. If they say if you sign for Amex Oasis card, you can not do this or can not do that. There is nothing in clear writing about the policy.

Looks to me they keep making up the rules as they go along. I am trying to figure what it means by "Active Recovery Product". If they keep flashing on your face "apply for Blue with preapproved message" What would you do. I want to see. For that they want to do FR, by almeans they can keep both my Oasis and Platinum Cards.

I have BOA 99/500 Card. I know upfront after 9 months they will make the account unsecured if I keep up my side of the bargain. It is black and white. I have no problem with it. I have FNB Omaha Secured card, they will make it unsecure after 21 months.

There is nothing that said if you sign for this, you can not do that or you can not get this. It is puzzling how they are doing with what. Looks to me there is no set of rules. Just do as they please.

They are a puzzle, that is for sure. That's one of the reasons why it seems about 40-50% of all messages on any credit-related board is about them. All we can do is try to figure them out by trial and error, and share our experiences so that others can learn from our own mistakes.

I explained why the Blue preapproval was flashing in your face. It sucks, but that's the way it works with all lenders, not just Amex.

As far as the "Active Recovery Product" reason for decline, that has been explained, too. I know you're frustrated, but I'm curious what you don't understand, or which part is unclear.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Red1Blue — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 03:42:50 GMT

Hi Cheddar, as I said in my previous message, there is nothing said if I sign up for Oasis card, I would not be eligible for other products/services from Amex. It would be nice to say these are the terms and conditons for this products. All it said is it is not upgradable and a stand alone product.

Ok now what is the policy about the Recovery Product? How many months and what happens after that? Would the graduate the card? No it is not eligilbe. Am I expected to close the card. No one knows, even when I talk to CSR she has no idea.

To be honest, I can live with out another card from Amex and I really dont need one more card. It is just not knowing the details is what bothers me. They could up front say, "you have to maintain your card in good standing for 6 months the we will close this card and issue a new card".

All they say is "Active Recovery Product" When it would be come inactive. What is the policy for it to stay active or inactive. It is just the uncertainity is what I dont like. I am one of those black and white type of guys, nothing in Grey.

Any very much for all your help and support. Now that I know, next 3-6 months I'll stay from Amex Apps.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Anonymous — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 04:22:42 GMT

concorduser wrote:
Hi Cheddar, as I said in my previous message, there is nothing said if I sign up for Oasis card, I would not be eligible for other products/services from Amex. It would be nice to say these are the terms and conditons for this products. All it said is it is not upgradable and a stand alone product.

Exactly! They don't tell you the rules, and that's why, as I said before, the advice we all get on this forum is invaluable. It lets us learn from others' mistakes without having to make those same mistakes ourselves.

concorduser wrote:

Ok now what is the policy about the Recovery Product? How many months and what happens after that? Would the graduate the card? No it is not eligilbe. Am I expected to close the card. No one knows, even when I talk to CSR she has no idea.

Honestly, even if the CSR knows, she may not be allowed to tell you. They like to be mysterious that way! Again, though, the answers to those questions are on this forum, right here in this very thread even.

concorduser wrote:

To be honest, I can live with out another card from Amex and I really dont need one more card. It is just not knowing the details is what bothers me. They could up front say, "you have to maintain your card in good standing for 6 months the we will close this card and issue a new card".

All they say is "Active Recovery Product" When it would be come inactive. What is the policy for it to stay active or inactive. It is just the uncertainity is what I dont like. I am one of those black and white type of guys, nothing in Grey.

It will become inactive when you close it. That's what active vs inactive means. Open vs closed.

Unfortunately, you will probably be denied for every Amex CC app you submit until you close your Oasis Optima card. That is what the denial message is telling you. It's saying "We're not giving you this card you applied for because you have an open Optima Card you got through the Oasis program."

As I also said several posts ago, the frustrating part is that you don't know when you should close your Optima Card in order to be eligible for a different Amex Credit Card, because you'd have to close it before you can even be approved for a different one!

A frustrating situation to be in, I'm sure.

concorduser wrote:
Any very much for all your help and support. Now that I know, next 3-6 months I'll stay from Amex Apps.

Honestly, with all the Amex apping you've done lately, I'd say more like 12 months. But that's just me.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 11:58:13 GMT

@Red1Blue wrote:
There is nothing in clear writing about the policy...

Looks to me they keep making up the rules as they go along...

There is nothing that said if you sign for this, you can not do that or you can not get this. It is puzzling how they are doing with what. Looks to me there is no set of rules. Just do as they please...

It is just the uncertainty is what I don't like. I am one of those black and white type of guys, nothing in Grey.

This is, without a doubt, the best description I've read of the negative side of American Express!

The other stuff, I "get." Use your cards a lot, pay them off promptly, don't be stupid, don't do things with other cards that might make it look like you're in trouble. But when it comes to the Oasis program, and broadening their market to those with lower scores and then becoming jittery, I don't get it. If they have rules for how they want things to be done, then post them. If they don't have rules, just sudden ideas while slurping their morning coffee, then stop yanking people around.

concord, I'm a black and white type of girl. I want to see clear-cut instructions, I want to see consistency, and I really like for things to be logical. I get enough mystery at work during the day. Think I'll wait for an eventual pre-approval in the mail, or better still a half-dozen or so, before joining the AmEx Army.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

Red1Blue — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:03:58 GMT

Hi Cheddar, when I talked to the CSR said app to Blue 90 days from the date I received Optima card. Brighter side, when I got the "Active Recovery Card" they are not pulling the CR. So it is half not bad.

As far as I am concerned Oasis looks the same as other Amex cards on my CR and I have no reason to close it. I'll make small charges every month and pay it off. With $5K CL reporting on my CR it looks good for my Utiil. I'll let the account age.

I have Platinum card and I can keep using that and get the benefits. I do PIF every month so Platinum is enough for my needs and gives me all the rewards I need.

It is time for me to pass the Amex Torch to some one else. I'll let some one else solve the Amex App Mystery and Puzzles.

Re: Please.... Need Help with Amex. Please....

MidnightVoice — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:33:09 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
I'm a black and white type of girl. I want to see clear-cut instructions, I want to see consistency, and I really like for things to be logical.

Then forget about credit scoring

Understanding Credit Scoring is an oxymoron