topic Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval? in Credit Cards

How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 03:15:58 GMT

I apped for the AmEx SPG card in my most recent app spree and was denied, despite a 746 EX score, low utilization, and no baddies (though there were a couple recent inquiries). I learned shortly afterwards that it's one of the hardest AmEx cards to get (and I don't have an existing relationship with AmEx other than being an AU).

I'm thinking in my next mini-app spree (of a whole 2 cards in February) of getting the no fee AmEx Hilton HHonors card - in part due to a wedding in another city that I'll be a groomsman for that's being held at a Hilton, and in part due to the fact that there's no AF and the rate of return is good for gas, groceries, and drugstores. I don't want to app and get denied again though.

So, how hard is this card to get compared to other AmEx cards?

Credit profile:

9 open CCs (2 closed) with current AAoA of 18 months. Much of AAoA is from an old AmEx card I was an AU on in 2005 - I opened quite a few new accounts in October/November this year (opened 4, reporting as AU on one added in Nov)
Total CL of all cards $42,800. Highest CL is $7,500
Util < 10% on all cards (I think it's probably around 1-2% overall)
Income ~$40k (getting married in January - do I include her income as well on CC apps? That would bump it up to $70k)
Inquiries on EX: 2 in 11/12, 1 in 10/12, 4 over a year old

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

HiLine — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 03:18:21 GMT

Total open limit being 100% of income is not working in your favor. I'd say, use your new household income for your application. Congrats by the way!

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

Duncanrr — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 03:27:39 GMT

Also your AAoA is low. Keep your scores up and you will get there.

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

Ron1 — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 03:37:03 GMT

I got approved for Hilton Amex three about 3 months ago and the CL is $2K. The score was 750. I currently have other Amex cards. It wasn't instantly approved.

Ron.

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

Cdnewmanpac — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 04:08:52 GMT

1. What were the listed reasons for denial of SPG?

2. Generally, cobranded Amex cards have lower underwriting criteria than pure amex cards like bce, bcp or blue sky. The general internet opinion is that the Amex Delta Gold is the easiest to get. I'm not sure where you heard SPG was amongst the hardest to get, I hadn't heard that.

3. I got the surpass (the AF version) this past summer with a 674 ex fico. However, I already had a zync that I'd run about 20k through in the preceeding 3 months, an income >100k, a DTI <25% and only got an initial CL of 1000. This month, with a fico I assume is pretty close to what it was, I got the costco TE card with a 5k limit. The costco is traditionally much harder to get than the hilton, but I got a higher credit limit and was instant approved. My point is that things like income, spending pattern and history really seem to matter at amex, so just stating your score doesn't tell much. Do you use the card you are an ACM on? Do you ever pay the bill?

4. Your income is going to be a barrier. Amex is a spend-centric company. No, you shouldn't include your household income, you aren't applying for a joint account. If your spending fails to match your stated income (70k), they may request proof of income via tax documents. You won't have them, since you don't make 70k. You could end up getting your account closed. I know there are lenders that ask household income, but amex isn't one of them.

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 04:38:35 GMT

@Cdnewmanpac wrote:
1. What were the listed reasons for denial of SPG?

3. My point is that things like income, spending pattern and history really seem to matter at amex, so just stating your score doesn't tell much. Do you use the card you are an ACM on? Do you ever pay the bill?

Jeez, I thought I stated quite a bit more than just my score in my post. The reasons listed were: "Amount of credit available on accounts," "Too many recent credit checks," "Your FICO score" (which I thought was curious), "Length of time accounts have been established." I can understand 2 and 4. At the time I apped for this card, I wasn't approaching my income in CLs. I either had 21.3k or 13.8k at the time (not sure if my 7.5k CL was reporting at the time), so I am still a bit surprised at the "Amount of credit available..." reason (not sure if they mean that's too much or too little, but I felt like I had a decent medium). I just recently got the AU card, and yes, I do use it (and pay the bill), though of course that's not applicable to the past denial.

As for AmEx being spend-centric, oh well, I guess that's life. I'm a frugal spender and a saver - that's why I got into CCs to begin with - to save money. Nice to be aware that I shouldn't list household income though. I was uncertain about that.

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

scenery_guy — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 06:12:06 GMT

The reasons listed were: "Amount of credit available on accounts," "Too many recent credit checks," "Your FICO score" (which I thought was curious), "Length of time accounts have been established." I can understand 2 and 4. At the time I apped for this card, I wasn't approaching my income in CLs. I either had 21.3k or 13.8k at the time (not sure if my 7.5k CL was reporting at the time), so I am still a bit surprised at the "Amount of credit available..." reason (not sure if they mean that's too much or too little, but I felt like I had a decent medium). I just recently got the AU card, and yes, I do use it (and pay the bill), though of course that's not applicable to the past denial.

In my opinion you were prime to recon that decline and had a decent chance to get it after explaining the reasons. Would have been worth the attempt in the form of a letter as it cost you a pull anyhow. As far a household income don't do it unless you are willing to lose the card IF you ever get the dreaded financial review. DO make note at what you listed as income on prior apps and keep that figure in mind as you do new AMEX apps as I believe they keep track of that stuff. It's understandable that people show increased income but doubling it would be cause for suspicion.

I'm not so sure they monitor the spend on the card(s) compared to your income in great detail. Seems a bit odd to expect you to spend $70k on a card if you make $70k. We all like our various AMEX products but to spend every earned dollar on it is unreasonable. What I believe to be a larger red flag is that if you state $70k income yet spend $250k on the card.

I was declined for that card earlier this year but it was my first app with AMEX (like you I should have reconed but did not know how). I eventually tried for a Delta Platinum and got it, then personal Gold card and got it, then Business Gold and got it then Business Delta Reserve and got it.

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 06:20:27 GMT

I tried to recon over the phone, and they wouldn't let me. I called customer service twice, and the second time, he said he'd go ahead and put it through for a review (I never got to talk to a credit analyst), and I got a letter a week later saying "We won't reconsider an application unless there's an error in your credit report." You're right though that I should have sent a letter - I didn't think to do that until I read it a few days ago.

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 06:40:05 GMT

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread (and potentially bringing up some problems with Amex recon?) I would love to get some more takes on the original question. Doing some long-term app planning (like Jan 2014 long-term haha)

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

armbenderc — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 07:17:46 GMT

I'm getting nervous now. Apping for BCE in Jan. I need Amex to soft me still. They haven't since 11/11/12.

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

Cdnewmanpac — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 07:49:52 GMT

@scenery_guy wrote:
Im not so sure they monitor the spend on the card(s) compared to your income in great detail. Seems a bit odd to expect you to spend $70k on a card if you make $70k. We all like our various AMEX products but to spend every earned dollar on it is unreasonable. What I believe to be a larger red flag is that if you state $70k income yet spend $250k on the card.

They don't just compare your spend to your income directly. There are formulas (much like FICO) that predict income based on spending patterns. There are commercially available ones, but Amex uses a proprietary one. While there is a huge amount of wasteful paranoia about Amex FR on this board, misstating your income (up or down) is one reliable way to beg for one.

To the OP: Sorry, just meant you didn't provide much about reasons for rejection beyond score. You can certainly obtain amex cards with your income, but you may have to show a year of handling your present limits, etc. My only point about amex being spend centric is that as you gather information, you should keep in mind the income and spending habits of the people posting their info. Typically, when someone posts a question like yours, a bunch of people post saying "I got it with a score of 440, 77 chargeoffs and being on America's Most Wanted". Especially with Amex, knowing that person has an income of $1 million helps explain their success.

Personally, I think if you can wait at least 6 months since your last app and six months since your last new account, you have a pretty good shot with the hilton card.

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 08:18:39 GMT

Sorry for my somewhat harsh reaction, and thanks for all the tips!

Edit: Typo

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

DailyDriver — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 13:57:07 GMT

I was approved in October, Fico was in the low 700's:

At the time I had 3 cards.

Two Citi reporting (high CL of 7.5k), one Discover not yet reporting (5.5k CL).

AAoA was around 1.5 years.

Utility was around 38%.

income is lower than yours.

Inquiries: 1 from Discover in September.

I started with a CL of 2k. I just recently applied for the 61 day CLI and it was increased to the current 3.4k (probably a mix of current utilization, income, and wanting to be near Chase).

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

bmd0224 — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 14:19:02 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I apped for the AmEx SPG card in my most recent app spree and was denied, despite a 746 EX score, low utilization, and no baddies (though there were a couple recent inquiries). I learned shortly afterwards that it's one of the hardest AmEx cards to get (and I don't have an existing relationship with AmEx other than being an AU).

I'm thinking in my next mini-app spree (of a whole 2 cards in February) of getting the no fee AmEx Hilton HHonors card - in part due to a wedding in another city that I'll be a groomsman for that's being held at a Hilton, and in part due to the fact that there's no AF and the rate of return is good for gas, groceries, and drugstores. I don't want to app and get denied again though.

So, how hard is this card to get compared to other AmEx cards?

Credit profile:
9 open CCs (2 closed) with current AAoA of 18 months. Much of AAoA is from an old AmEx card I was an AU on in 2005 - I opened quite a few new accounts in October/November this year (opened 4, reporting as AU on one added in Nov)
Total CL of all cards $42,800. Highest CL is $7,500
Util < 10% on all cards (I think it's probably around 1-2% overall)
Income ~$40k (getting married in January - do I include her income as well on CC apps? That would bump it up to $70k)
Inquiries on EX: 2 in 11/12, 1 in 10/12, 4 over a year old

Congrats on the upcoming wedding!

I just got approval on the AMEX HH card with no annual fee in late Nov. It was an instant approval. I also had prior to applying for that card the Amex PRG, Delta Skymiles Gold, and a closed Zync card. My relationship with AMEX is only 4 months old but I was approved for a CL of 5600. My AAoA is 5 years and overall Credit History is 14 years. I would say apply for a charge card as they are easier to get, have it for a month or so and pay on time and show them you are a good customer and you should be able to get any revolver with them say after two months with the charge card. Most likely your AAoA which is 18 months is slowing you down. No worries though, time will be your friend. Look at the Gold PRG card as it comes with 25K membership rewards points. That's a nice bonus and after you complete the spend to receive those points you should be ready for the Hilton Card. But as always YMMV.

Good luck. Merry Christmas!

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

djrez4 — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:10:17 GMT

Approved 11/30 (snuck in before the 65k offer expired). Approval would have been instant except EX is frozen. I had to call in with the PIN.

EX Fico 693 on 11/10

AAoA - 2.1 years

Income - 115k

Inqs - 9 - 1 within 2 months, all 9 within 6 months, 4 were from shopping for auto loans in August.

Utilitzation - 1% split between two cards

Accounts open - 9 cards, 2 student loans, 1 auto loan

There's another approval in the creditpulls database on CreditBoards that shows an instant Hilton Amex approval at 665 and another that took 4 days at 678. I think you're good to go in February,

Also, Amex recons are different than others like Chase. They won't just reconsider because you ask nicely. You do need to demonstrate that their decision was based on incorrect or incomplete information before they'll take a second look.

Re: How difficult is AmEx Hilton card approval?

bluesnowman — Thu, 20 Dec 2012 17:33:52 GMT

My income is about 12,000 and my history total is about 8 months on Christmas. I have been approved for the AMEX PRG as well (I didnt think I was going to get approved because I thought the income requirement was higher, but I guess I got approved anyways.) Amex is very much a spend centric company like CD says (In another thread, I posted, one of my friends is a total trust fund baby, and he puts about 4-5k on his parents platinum card every month.) As always, keep your credit as good as good as it can be, and you should be able to qualify for any of their cards, but don't spend more then you have reported either. Like your like me with a small income right now, I would not put more then 3-400$ on there. That might change with my spending history with them over the years. As always, YMMV.