topic Am I the only one? in Credit Cards

Am I the only one?

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 19:29:38 GMT

I have gotten so in the habit of PIF before the statement cuts that I have been doing it with my AMEX Green. It never reports anything. I think I'm going to pay after the statement cuts this month so other CCCs can see that AMEX trusts me with large spending!

Re: Am I the only one?

Walt_K — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 19:32:26 GMT

I don't think it matters that much one way or the other. Do what works for you, but I don't think other CCs are going to marvel at your Amex balance.

Re: Am I the only one?

scenery_guy — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:12:47 GMT

Yeah, I have no idea how the reporting works with AMEX charge cards but honestly the only one I care about knowing what my spend is on my card IS AMEX. That way I can call them and debate my value as a customer by pointing out my spend year to date on the card.

I'll stand on my own merits with other cards without AMEX but if they need to know I'll offer to fax them my AMEX statements.

Re: Am I the only one?

SisterGirl — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:55:21 GMT

Personally, I don't mind other creditors seeing what my highest spending is with Amex. They also see that it is an individual account & PIF for years. But I do make it clear to Amex that I pay every invoice upon receipt (long in advance of the due date) & I appreciate the trust we've built between each other.

SisterGirl

Re: Am I the only one?

webhopper — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 22:41:26 GMT

I don't think other creditors pay attention to your amex balance that much to want you to fax in your amex statements.... Maybe I'm wrong.

Re: Am I the only one?

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 22:55:50 GMT

@SisterGirl wrote:
Personally, I don't mind other creditors seeing what my highest spending is with Amex. They also see that it is an individual account & PIF for years. But I do make it clear to Amex that I pay every invoice upon receipt (long in advance of the due date) & I appreciate the trust we've built between each other.

SisterGirl

Not quite sure what to make of your last part. What "trust" has been built and between you and what? Amex is a big corporation. I work for a bigger one with consumer, business and enterprise LOBs and while we can certainly look up records for individuals and evaluate their worth/risk to us, I don't think anything like "trust" comes in to it.

Amex can tell that you have paid on time, and while they may track that you pay consistently early, we don't really know the impact of that (e.g. in some situations might be a danger sign, paying off in order to make the big purchase that they don't intend to pay for). So, their algorithms may "reward" with you CLIs etc, but again it's not trust. Miss two payments and see if they say "Oh, we trust sistergirl, I'm sure she'll pay when she's ready"

Re: Am I the only one?

cashnocredit — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:09:21 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I have gotten so in the habit of PIF before the statement cuts that I have been doing it with my AMEX Green. It never reports anything. I think I'm going to pay after the statement cuts this month so other CCCs can see that AMEX trusts me with large spending!

I have, at times, prepaid most of my cards just to see the FICO impact or in preparation for an app. However, after reading about FICO's "Capacity Index," a score that estimates one's ability to take on additional debt, I tend to let balances report though I also pif. Consistently prepaying may, in the absence of fine grain reporting that only some creditors do and only EX reports, make one appear less attractive to new creditors.

Re: Am I the only one?

Anonymous — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 23:11:21 GMT

@webhopper wrote:
I don't think other creditors pay attention to your amex balance that much to want you to fax in your amex statements.... Maybe I'm wrong.

Lmao! I agree Web!!

Re: Am I the only one?

scenery_guy — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 01:34:59 GMT

@webhopper wrote:
I don't think other creditors pay attention to your amex balance that much to want you to fax in your amex statements.... Maybe I'm wrong.

It's not the balance, it's the lack of balance and total spend. It got Chase's attention. Didn't fax, just carried them into my local branch. Of course they knew what I was spending on my AMEX accounts as all my payments to AMEX come from Chase accounts. My banker pointed that out even before looking at statements. Don't rule out offering to show what you spent on a competitor's card when asking for an increase or a new line. Of course YMMV as I run a bunch of spend on personal and business cards, spending that a year ago was all done via check or debit card.

I'm just saying that sometimes I think we (collective) put too much importance on what reports when and how. It's actually the MONEY that the banks care about, as well as the little things like PIF and on time or earlier. The computer might not see it but an actual human will consider it, or did for me.

Re: Am I the only one?

Creditaddict — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 01:52:20 GMT

I think paying all your balances before they report a balance is going to hurt you in the long wrong... if it's just your amex charge i don't know if it will matter to anyone else or not... it's only TU 98? is that the one that may mess it up on your report... but i would not want ALL cards showing $0 every month... and we have had many posts of issues with that.

Re: Am I the only one?

SisterGirl — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 04:21:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@SisterGirl wrote:
Personally, I don't mind other creditors seeing what my highest spending is with Amex. They also see that it is an individual account & PIF for years. But I do make it clear to Amex that I pay every invoice upon receipt (long in advance of the due date) & I appreciate the trust we've built between each other.

SisterGirl
Not quite sure what to make of your last part. What "trust" has been built and between you and what? Amex is a big corporation. I work for a bigger one with consumer, business and enterprise LOBs and while we can certainly look up records for individuals and evaluate their worth/risk to us, I don't think anything like "trust" comes in to it.
Amex can tell that you have paid on time, and while they may track that you pay consistently early, we don't really know the impact of that (e.g. in some situations might be a danger sign, paying off in order to make the big purchase that they don't intend to pay for). So, their algorithms may "reward" with you CLIs etc, but again it's not trust. Miss two payments and see if they say "Oh, we trust sistergirl, I'm sure she'll pay when she's ready"

When I mention "trust", I will always inform them if I plan to make a purchase that is not a "typical" one....and some level of assurance is expressed between myself & the person authorizing approval. Perhaps that word was taken by some other token, but want to make myself clear in the meaning intended. I have a Chase unsecured line of credit & can whip out the checkbook anytime to draw against it, but there is no "guarantee" that it will be paid upon presentation. Trust comes from doing the right thing & keeping your word, as it is your bond. When approvals occur, there must be SOME level of trust (eg...electronically implied) or it wouldn't happen !

When my son-in-law was killed in a car accident & I was snatched from my deep sleep in the middle of the night to drive from Texas to VIirginia, it was an oversight of mine to not pay Amex (or anyone else), but they didn't shut me down either ! They were informed ASAP because that's the way it should be.....it's a two-way street when it comes to being a customer or not....trust or NOT....and I wouldn't trust anyone with every aspect of my life. Nonetheless, the standard rule is "Cash Is King" all day, everyday.

SisterGirl

Re: Am I the only one?

Sparkz1920 — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 04:40:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I have gotten so in the habit of PIF before the statement cuts that I have been doing it with my AMEX Green. It never reports anything. I think I'm going to pay after the statement cuts this month so other CCCs can see that AMEX trusts me with large spending!

I pay when the statement cuts as well, therefore i really dont know when my due date is on my charge

Re: Am I the only one?

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:28:27 GMT

@SisterGirl wrote:

When I mention "trust", I will always inform them if I plan to make a purchase that is not a "typical" one....and some level of assurance is expressed between myself & the person authorizing approval. Perhaps that word was taken by some other token, but want to make myself clear in the meaning intended. I have a Chase unsecured line of credit & can whip out the checkbook anytime to draw against it, but there is no "guarantee" that it will be paid upon presentation. Trust comes from doing the right thing & keeping your word, as it is your bond. When approvals occur, there must be SOME level of trust (eg...electronically implied) or it wouldn't happen !

When my son-in-law was killed in a car accident & I was snatched from my deep sleep in the middle of the night to drive from Texas to VIirginia, it was an oversight of mine to not pay Amex (or anyone else), but they didn't shut me down either ! They were informed ASAP because that's the way it should be.....it's a two-way street when it comes to being a customer or not....trust or NOT....and I wouldn't trust anyone with every aspect of my life. Nonetheless, the standard rule is "Cash Is King" all day, everyday.

SisterGirl

OK, I guess we really differ in terminology.

A few years ago, I had a charge on a Capital One card I hardly use that I thought I had set up for autopay. So I didn't pay it.

Next statement I see that it is due, and a late fee. I asked Capital One to remove the late fee or I would close the card. They immediately removed the fee. Why, because my spend overall with them made them want to retain me enough. Not because I had built trust, but because the business relationship made sense to both of us. In your more dramatic case, I think most card issuers would have given you the same leeway as Amex.

Why don't you have the same level of confidence in Chase? Have they not paid checks you presented within the bounds of your contract? Why keep the account then?

Telling Amex about future atypical purchases is also, to my mind, hardly a matter of trust. You name a figure, and the algorithm preapproves it. The wording on the automated function even reminds you that this really isn't a guarantee, as things may change by the actual time of purchase.

Maybe I am too cynical from working for a big company, but it always surprises me when people use words like trust, or loyalty, with mega-corporations. They REALLY don't have feelings for you as individuals, they are in it for the money. It may be that excellent customer service has been determined in that segment to be a worthwhile expense to retain and grow profits from customers, don't mistake it for real human emotions, that's for friends and family.

But I guess we have to disagree. Now if I could transfer some of your trust in Amex to my company...., BleedTheSuckersDry PLC. Oh, maybe we need a new name.

Re: Am I the only one?

HiLine — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:30:08 GMT

@Creditaddict wrote:
I think paying all your balances before they report a balance is going to hurt you in the long wrong... if it's just your amex charge i don't know if it will matter to anyone else or not... it's only TU 98? is that the one that may mess it up on your report... but i would not want ALL cards showing $0 every month... and we have had many posts of issues with that.

I believe that Experian reports actually display monthly credit usage, so the balance at statement closing doesn't really matter for this purpose.

Re: Am I the only one?

Anonymous — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:53:54 GMT

Credit card companies are not interested in how many credit cards you have.. Maintaining a "0" balance only indicates the possession of the card. Having a one hundred dollar balance on given accounts and making payents as required are the issue of the account history and what a potential creditor is actually interested in. AMEX has a reputation of not reporting on accounts in good standing as master card and visa does. What is interesting to me is that you are not concerned about annual fees you may be paying for each of the cards you do possess

Re: Am I the only one?

Rhaeny — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:56:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@SisterGirl wrote:

When I mention "trust", I will always inform them if I plan to make a purchase that is not a "typical" one....and some level of assurance is expressed between myself & the person authorizing approval. Perhaps that word was taken by some other token, but want to make myself clear in the meaning intended. I have a Chase unsecured line of credit & can whip out the checkbook anytime to draw against it, but there is no "guarantee" that it will be paid upon presentation. Trust comes from doing the right thing & keeping your word, as it is your bond. When approvals occur, there must be SOME level of trust (eg...electronically implied) or it wouldn't happen !

When my son-in-law was killed in a car accident & I was snatched from my deep sleep in the middle of the night to drive from Texas to VIirginia, it was an oversight of mine to not pay Amex (or anyone else), but they didn't shut me down either ! They were informed ASAP because that's the way it should be.....it's a two-way street when it comes to being a customer or not....trust or NOT....and I wouldn't trust anyone with every aspect of my life. Nonetheless, the standard rule is "Cash Is King" all day, everyday.

SisterGirl

OK, I guess we really differ in terminology.

A few years ago, I had a charge on a Capital One card I hardly use that I thought I had set up for autopay. So I didn't pay it.
Next statement I see that it is due, and a late fee.   I asked Capital One to remove the late fee or I would close the card. They immediately removed the fee. Why, because my spend overall with them made them want to retain me enough. Not because I had built trust, but because the business relationship made sense to both of us. In your more dramatic case, I think most card issuers would have given you the same leeway as Amex.

Why don't you have the same level of confidence in Chase? Have they not paid checks you presented within the bounds of your contract? Why keep the account then?

Telling Amex about future atypical purchases is also, to my mind, hardly a matter of trust. You name a figure, and the algorithm preapproves it. The wording on the automated function even reminds you that this really isn't a guarantee, as things may change by the actual time of purchase.

Maybe I am too cynical from working for a big company, but it always surprises me when people use words like trust, or loyalty, with mega-corporations.   They REALLY don't have feelings for you as individuals, they are in it for the money.   It may be that excellent customer service has been determined in that segment to be a worthwhile expense to retain and grow profits from customers, don't mistake it for real human emotions, that's for friends and family.

But I guess we have to disagree. Now if I could transfer some of your trust in Amex to my company...., BleedTheSuckersDry PLC. Oh, maybe we need a new name.

IMHO, I think the relationship one has with a credit card issuer is purely business. That means that they are in it to make money to make sure that their shareholders earn profits and to pay their employees and bills. So trust has no bearing in these relationships, if you that's what you want to call it. I honestly can't think of a better word either....LOL!

Every decision made by credit issuers are all based around numbers that may or may not fairly represent who you are. But who you are makes no difference because if the numbers don't add up then you don't have a "relationship" with them. They either deny or grant you credit. That's why we are all here on the Fico Fourm trying to figure out how to make our numbers better so that we can do business with them.

When you apply online and you get that instant approval, there isn't anything behind it other than your numbers met their criteria to offer you that card and that's it.

Maybe 50 years or more ago busines relationships were built on trust, but that is far gone now. Not even a glimpse of trust except maybe for the small businesses, and even they might have a hard time agreeing that there is a trust factor.

So again, this is only my opinion, but I agree with bs6054 that this is not about anything other than how much of risk, based on the numbers your ss# generates, can they take with you so that THEY can make money off of you. Where is the trust in that?

Re: Am I the only one?

bettercreditguy1 — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:51:16 GMT

I always PIf and early after statement cuts. I don't worrry about too many credit cards with balances showing. When Chase increased me to $25k they saw all of those little (under $ 1000.) charges currently due. What THEY looked for was payment history. How can they see payment history or balance detail on other trade lines if you NEVER allow any reporting? As for paying ahead of the statement cut date, it may help internally only with that particular credit card issuer. Just my experience, as always YMMV.

Re: Am I the only one?

SnackTrader — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 13:24:21 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Credit card companies are not interested in how many credit cards you have.. Maintaining a "0" balance only indicates the possession of the card. Having a one hundred dollar balance on given accounts and making payents as required are the issue of the account history and what a potential creditor is actually interested in. AMEX has a reputation of not reporting on accounts in good standing as master card and visa does. What is interesting to me is that you are not concerned about annual fees you may be paying for each of the cards you do possess

Visa and MasterCard are not banks and therefore do not report any account information to anyone. They are payment networks and their sole purpose Is to issue cards, process payments, and provide some degree of cardholder protection/benefit.

Also, What reputation are you referring to?

Re: Am I the only one?

FutureBillionaire — Mon, 24 Dec 2012 17:14:35 GMT

I pay the majority of my cards in full every month. I have one card with a credit union that has a high balance from the era when I did not know how to properly use credit. If I carry a balance, it is going to be on a new card with a 0% intro apr. Sometimes I carry a balance on a card for one cycle and then pay it off on the next one. My credit report shows 4 accounts with a balance, and none of them report with over 10% utilization. I think this helps me be more attractive in the eye of even the stingiest creditor. My goal is to have only one card reporting a balance every month.