topic Re: Amex FR during application process in Credit Cards

Amex FR during application process

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:05:11 GMT

I recently applied and was approved for an Amex Delta Gold with an $8k limit. Before they would approve the application however, i had to submit to a FR. Luckily they accepted six check stubs rather than making me send in tax returns.

Has this happened to anyone else? Oddly this seems to be a much better way of doing business - new account relationship, verify my income BEFORE you give me the card and then embaress me at a restaurant later when you decide you want to now verify.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Jutz — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:19:19 GMT

I'd agree, if it were an inevitability, I'd rather submit pay stubs beforehand, than submit the tax documents at some unknown time.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:37:28 GMT

what was your credit score range if I may ask?

Re: Amex FR during application process

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:59:39 GMT

725 fako from credit karma. My history is pretty short. Longest TL is October 2012.

Re: Amex FR during application process

ObeyJohnny12 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 14:23:01 GMT

I think it's a good idea from Amex. Verify info then give out the card. Less stress for the cardholder and of course the embarrassment of being declined.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 14:45:45 GMT

I agree, as long as I am not still declined in a week and forced to resubmit information anyway.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Walt_K — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 14:46:11 GMT

Even if they verify before, FR can be triggered by changes in circumstances, so they would likely continue to do them if something in your reports, spending patterns, etc. spooked them.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Happychap — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:05:23 GMT

One of the main reasons I wouldn't get an Amex is due to the high potential of getting declined while abroad due to a FR placing on my account. It's an uncertainty that I do not need, especially while abroad in a different country. At least with my other cards the chances of such action are very minimal or not at all. I need a reliable card not one with PMS.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Open123 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:08:08 GMT

@Happychap wrote:
One of the main reasons I wouldn't get an Amex is due to the high potential of getting declined while abroad due to a FR placing on my account. It's an uncertainty that I do not need, especially while abroad in a different country. At least with my other cards the chances of such action are very minimal or not at all. I need a reliable card not one with PMS.

Salient point.

Another reason why Amex isn't really a "standalone" card anymore, aside from lesser acceptance and *only* one card with no forex fees.

Re: Amex FR during application process

pdog661 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:13:48 GMT

@Happychap wrote:
One of the main reasons I wouldn't get an Amex is due to the high potential of getting declined while abroad due to a FR placing on my account. It's an uncertainty that I do not need, especially while abroad in a different country. At least with my other cards the chances of such action are very minimal or not at all. I need a reliable card not one with PMS.

I disagree. My last trip abroad AMEX function perfectly. Citi shut off my account even with a travel notification on file.

AMEX is a company built on travel. They are no more likely to decline a foreign transaction then any other credit card company.

Personally I believe all the FR is occurring because AMEX used to have extremely strict approval criteria. They have loosened the criteria, and in place of the strict entrance they now have a strict maintenance program.

AMEX's default levels are the industry leader, and by far the lowest of all comsumer credit card companys..

Edit for an unclear statement.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Open123 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:19:08 GMT

@pdog661 wrote:

AMEX's default levels are the industry leader, and by far the lowest of all comsumer credit card companys..

Edit for an unclear statement.

Maybe it's because of all the FRs!

Jokes aside, the issue with this is that FRs are triggered by a computer alogorithm. If it triggers your account, there is little to avoid it. For instance, what if your "legitimate" purchases start to mimic what their data terms as "deviant and outlier" behavior? Then, your account could be potentially flagged for FR at a very inconvenient time.

For example, I've never used my card to pay for medical expenditures. Say, I'm skiing and require medical attention. I charge a huge medical bill while an "old" library collection erroneously hits my CR. The charge may be refused, while I need to endure the full FR process before I can have my card reinstated. Other issuers are less prone to be that preemptive.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Walt_K — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:22:27 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@Happychap wrote:
One of the main reasons I wouldn't get an Amex is due to the high potential of getting declined while abroad due to a FR placing on my account. It's an uncertainty that I do not need, especially while abroad in a different country. At least with my other cards the chances of such action are very minimal or not at all. I need a reliable card not one with PMS.
Salient point.

Another reason why Amex isn't really a "standalone" card anymore, aside from lesser acceptance and *only* one card with no forex fees.

I really don't understand this concern. I think it's overblown as it is so simple to carry a backup Visa/Mastercard. Everyone should carry a backup card anyway, because while Visa/Mastercard have broad acceptance, there is not complete overlap, and there can always be an unforseen issue with any bank. I don't see why someone would pass on an Amex card that would be rewarding for that person's spend pattern simply because of fear of FR, which only happens to a negligible percentage of cardholders. Even if you find FR to be intrusive, just use the card and reap the benefits until it happens, and then cancel. The overwhelming likelihood is you will never experience it.

The no forex fees issue is a more legitimate concern in my opinion. While I have the Platinum card, Amex could do better here by having more options.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Happychap — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:45:45 GMT

It's not that I worry about a foreign transaction shutting the card down, as that can apply to all cards due to a potential fraud alert, but that in itself is very easily dealt with with one phone call to confirm your ID. However, a FR is not so easily dealt with and practically impossible to be dealt with when your abroad. On the balance of possibilities a Amex will get a FR more than any other card in your wallet. So for me anyway, its not a risk I can take. Even though I love their rewards and all, its just too risky for all the travel l do, regardless if they try and promote themselves 'as all about travel'. A FR can happen any time to anybody. I carry several credit cards in my wallet as backup but Amex isnt part of them.

Re: Amex FR during application process

jake619 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 18:07:19 GMT

Aren't you mixing fears here? There has been little correlation between traveling+declines and FR. As I understand, FR is a situation driven by questionable profiles within AMEX's internal scoring algorithm. That has little to do with foreign travel. In fact, AMEX is one of the only creditors that does NOT require you to call them and post a travel advisory.

Let's keep the topics separated unless you can correlate these two.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 19:23:06 GMT

@jake619 wrote:
Aren't you mixing fears here? There has been little correlation between traveling+declines and FR. As I understand, FR is a situation driven by questionable profiles within AMEX's internal scoring algorithm. That has little to do with foreign travel. In fact, AMEX is one of the only creditors that does NOT require you to call them and post a travel advisory.

Let's keep the topics separated unless you can correlate these two.

That is not neccessarily true. If the fact that you re oversees results in your spending habits change, as it surely will (charging all of your lodging, meals, entertainment and transportation tends to do that), this could trigger the system to pull an FR request. I would think that because of this, charging alot more because you are traveling, and not the actual act of traveling itself, would result in a higher chance for an FR as there is a greater chance to deviate from your patterns that would be the case were you home.

Just to be safe I will always be traveling with a second card and my deferred debit card.

Re: Amex FR during application process

jake619 — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 20:14:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
That is not neccessarily true. If the fact that you re oversees results in your spending habits change, as it surely will (charging all of your lodging, meals, entertainment and transportation tends to do that), this could trigger the system to pull an FR request. I would think that because of this, charging alot more because you are traveling, and not the actual act of traveling itself, would result in a higher chance for an FR as there is a greater chance to deviate from your patterns that would be the case were you home.
Just to be safe I will always be traveling with a second card and my deferred debit card.

The problem with your statement is you're advancing a theory of what triggers FR. Specifically, "charging alot more because you are traveling, and not the actual act of traveling itself, would result in a higher chance for an FR", you're inferring that the simple fact of charging habit devitation increases FR odds. I disagree.

I still say this is mixing declines from deviation and FR. FR is financial review, not you deviated from normal patterns. To me deviation could raise concerns of theft and increase declines/suspend the account, but if I deviate and stay within the cards CL (charge cards included) then it's quite the reach to connect FR to it.

+1 to this: Just to be safe I will always be traveling with a second card and my deferred debit card.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Repo-ed — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 20:19:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
725 fako from credit karma. My history is pretty short. Longest TL is October 2012.

Bingo

High reported income + acceptable FICO + Thin File = FR.

I would just be glad they didn't ding two reports with a HP.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 20:22:19 GMT

@jake619 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
That is not neccessarily true. If the fact that you re oversees results in your spending habits change, as it surely will (charging all of your lodging, meals, entertainment and transportation tends to do that), this could trigger the system to pull an FR request. I would think that because of this, charging alot more because you are traveling, and not the actual act of traveling itself, would result in a higher chance for an FR as there is a greater chance to deviate from your patterns that would be the case were you home.
Just to be safe I will always be traveling with a second card and my deferred debit card.
The problem with your statement is you're advancing a theory of what triggers FR. Specifically, "charging alot more because you are traveling, and not the actual act of traveling itself, would result in a higher chance for an FR", you're inferring that the simple fact of charging habit devitation increases FR odds. I disagree.

I still say this is mixing declines from deviation and FR. FR is financial review, not you deviated from normal patterns. To me deviation could raise concerns of theft and increase declines/suspend the account, but if I deviate and stay within the cards CL (charge cards included) then it's quite the reach to connect FR to it.

+1 to this: Just to be safe I will always be traveling with a second card and my deferred debit card.

I will agree and disagree. What I was referring to would raise red flags to theft for most companies, but to Amex it seems that not only is the theft flag then waiving, but also the risk that this pristine person they allowed access to the inner sanctuary may not be as shiny, so just to be certain that this person who now appears to us (amex) to be riskier, can in fact pay these charges, lets conduct an FR.

It just seems to me that Amex is so terrified of deviations being the sign of pending defaults that deviations caused by what I noted above, would be far more likely to result in an FR with Amex than any other company on earth.

Re: Amex FR during application process

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 20:27:08 GMT

@Repo-ed wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
725 fako from credit karma. My history is pretty short. Longest TL is October 2012.
Bingo

High reported income + acceptable FICO + Thin File = FR.

I would just be glad they didn't ding two reports with a HP.

Oh I wasn't complaining about it, it was a sound business decision. I was actually arguing that they should do this more if there is ANY doubt as it saves the potential embarrasment of it happening later and protects Amex from potential risk.

And they did ding two reports

Re: Amex FR during application process

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2013 20:27:32 GMT

Is a FR something common with Amex? I have a short history and was just instantly approved with them....is it common to be declined at a checkout??