topic Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR! in Credit Cards

Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:26:39 GMT

So looks like my experience with American Express will be less than 1 month.

Despite the fact that they had me send in bank statements AND pay stubs prior to approving my application, Amex today hit me with an FR...**bleep**

I only worked 3 months in 2011 (took a long sabbatical from work to take care of my father after he had a stroke), so even if I agreed, my income for the year would only show $45K and not my 2012 income which was over $130k and was also what I put on the app. So even IF I sent the tax forms, they would still shut me down. When I said this to the agent she replied,

"well sir we have to be able to verify your information"

I replied, "but that information is not current, it is outdated and does not tell the story of what happened to me in 2011, AND you have already seen my actual income at the time of application. My 2011 numbers in no way show my ability to pay current debts. Can I give you 2010 taxes, I still work at the same company."

her scripted reply "well sir, if you can't verify the income American Express may have to take adverse action. We can not take your 2010 taxes as those are dated///"

My reply, "So if I can not verify my current income through outdated data from 2011, and not current data, you may close my account? And, I can not use outdated data from 2010 because it is outdated but outdated data from 2011 is current enough to be used for these purposes?"

"yes"

HOW IS THIS AN ACCEPTABLE BUSINESS PRACTICE!!!! Looks like I am closing my card.

edit: I also offered to file 2012 taxes sooner than originally planned and let them take those, they again rejected and said it has to be from 2011.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

MustangSaluki — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:03:15 GMT

Don't burn the bridge from your side by closing any account. Let them take a look first. 8k is still ok even if the 4506T is not the current one they want to look at. There might be a time when you need them for a variety of reasons. Of course, just an opinion.

Any particular reason why they decided to do it though? Any recent changes in spending patterns?

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:35:16 GMT

@MustangSaluki wrote:
Don't burn the bridge from your side by closing any account. Let them take a look first. 8k is still ok even if the 4506T is not the current one they want to look at. There might be a time when you need them for a variety of reasons. Of course, just an opinion.

Any particular reason why they decided to do it though? Any recent changes in spending patterns?

Looks like a hard decision in that the 8K CL is a major piece of your credit. If you don't need that, or are fairly confident that you can replace it with another issuer, I would be inclined to close because they are being too hard to work with! (Amex isn't the be all of credit!). But otherwise, you might want to cooperate and see what happens.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:37:47 GMT

Also, if you do close and then need a card from them, they may well give you a card and then do a near-immediate FR. If you are happy enough with giving tax info, that might work out fine, as if you do it this time next year you will have a perfectly good 2012 return.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:47:33 GMT

i am just worried about ending this process with a closed by grantor on my credit.

She questioned me about a delta purchase i made. I assume that is what did it. FR'd for a delta purchase on my delta amex card.....

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Anonymous — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:46:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Also, if you do close and then need a card from them, they may well give you a card and then do a near-immediate FR. If you are happy enough with giving tax info, that might work out fine, as if you do it this time next year you will have a perfectly good 2012 return.

I will probably close and reapply in a year. i just dont want to risk a closed by grantor on a card that is less than a month old considering how limited my credit is right now.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

android01 — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:58:28 GMT

CLOSE IT. Having an AMEX or any other flavor of credit card is simply not worth the level of intrusion into your personal finances that allowing them to have your tax returns does. I've been an AMEX customer for 27 years, and although I've never been F/R'd, I would close every AMEX account I have without even thinking twice should they ask for one.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

jake619 — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 23:04:55 GMT

@android01 wrote:
CLOSE IT. Having an AMEX or any other flavor of credit card is simply not worth the level of intrusion into your personal finances that allowing them to have your tax returns does. I've been an AMEX customer for 27 years, and although I've never been F/R'd, I would close every AMEX account I have without even thinking twice should they ask for one.

Why do you say this? They already have your personal information, SS#, employment data, etc... what's the big problem backing up what was stated on an app?

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Repo-ed — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 23:13:51 GMT

@jake619 wrote:
@android01 wrote:
CLOSE IT. Having an AMEX or any other flavor of credit card is simply not worth the level of intrusion into your personal finances that allowing them to have your tax returns does. I've been an AMEX customer for 27 years, and although I've never been F/R'd, I would close every AMEX account I have without even thinking twice should they ask for one.
Why do you say this? They already have your personal information, SS#, employment data, etc... what's the big problem backing up what was stated on an app?

Agreed

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

android01 — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 23:29:44 GMT

@Repo-ed wrote:
@jake619 wrote:
@android01 wrote:
CLOSE IT. Having an AMEX or any other flavor of credit card is simply not worth the level of intrusion into your personal finances that allowing them to have your tax returns does. I've been an AMEX customer for 27 years, and although I've never been F/R'd, I would close every AMEX account I have without even thinking twice should they ask for one.
Why do you say this? They already have your personal information, SS#, employment data, etc... what's the big problem backing up what was stated on an app?
Agreed

Because there is far more information in your tax returns than just SSN#, and employment data. here's a list from what can be gleaned from a 1040 alone, not to mention other schedules they would have access to.

With only a 1040 transcript they can get:

Concept & 1040 Line #

1) Names & SSNs of your entire family and your ex-spouse: 6a, 6b, 6c, 31a
2) Marital status: Right at the top of the form.
3) Alimony & child support: 11
4) HSA contributions: 25
5) Blind: 39a
6) Immigration status: 39b (also they can tell by your SSN)
7) Bank account number: 74b, 74c, 74d
8) Children adopted: 71b
9) Qualified health insurance plan:
10) Combat zone pay: 64b
11) Child care expenses: 48
12) First time home buyer: 67
13) Continuing education: 49 & 66 & 34
14) Retirement funds: 50
15) Unemployed you / spouse at any period during the year: 19
16) Rental income: 17
17) Social security benefits: 20a
18) What fuel does your car consume: 70
19) Energy-related home improvements:52
20) Own or rent your home: 52 & 67
21) Pay taxes in installments: 68

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Revelate — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 23:32:15 GMT

@Repo-ed wrote:
@jake619 wrote:
@android01 wrote:
CLOSE IT. Having an AMEX or any other flavor of credit card is simply not worth the level of intrusion into your personal finances that allowing them to have your tax returns does. I've been an AMEX customer for 27 years, and although I've never been F/R'd, I would close every AMEX account I have without even thinking twice should they ask for one.
Why do you say this? They already have your personal information, SS#, employment data, etc... what's the big problem backing up what was stated on an app?
Agreed

We had a big thread about this recently with opinions ranging all over the map. I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole (again), so here's the thread for reference:

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Why-is-a-FR-so-bad/td-p/1765362

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

jake619 — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 23:35:00 GMT

Haha, that was my thread! Thanks Rev for stopping this before it went viral again.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 00:12:43 GMT

Covered by others

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

slippy84 — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 23:48:42 GMT

So did they at least call you before you tried using your card and it was declined?

All these stories about people being declined then calling in to find out that they are on FR are just crazy. If AMEX really wants to initiate a FR, they should at least have the decency to call you before they freeze your card.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

navigatethis12 — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 00:48:48 GMT

I asked about differing income and the female said that as long as you can show some income, they will not close it. 8000 does not seem unrealistic for 45000 income so they may just leave the limit the same. Their cards are really nothing special though, so if you have no use for them I would just close it.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 01:32:38 GMT

@slippy84 wrote:
So did they at least call you before you tried using your card and it was declined?

All these stories about people being declined then calling in to find out that they are on FR are just crazy. If AMEX really wants to initiate a FR, they should at least have the decency to call you before they freeze your card.

no they called after.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 02:29:46 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@slippy84 wrote:
So did they at least call you before you tried using your card and it was declined?

All these stories about people being declined then calling in to find out that they are on FR are just crazy. If AMEX really wants to initiate a FR, they should at least have the decency to call you before they freeze your card.

no they called after.

I doubt they will close it with an income of $45k. Maybe CLD, but you can call underwriting and explain what's up.

Not a lost cause.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

Happychap — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 02:30:24 GMT

Least they called you, no one has yet called me and my card got suspended a week ago. I did send the tax form since I knew I was being FR'd when i saw the red suspension message and i still wait a response. It is a bad service in suspending your account with no contact, I suspect I will get a letter this week informing me of my FR.

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

slippy84 — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 02:41:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@slippy84 wrote:
So did they at least call you before you tried using your card and it was declined?

All these stories about people being declined then calling in to find out that they are on FR are just crazy. If AMEX really wants to initiate a FR, they should at least have the decency to call you before they freeze your card.

no they called after.

Ridiculous. Makes AMEX much less attractive when they treat their "cardmembers" like that

Re: Nice while it lasted - AMEX FR!

HenryJumbo — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:19:31 GMT

Well $130k to $45K is a big drop and is a good reason to inquire, however what they require to resolve the problem is for most people too much of a hasstle when credit cards are so easy to get.

Just know that when you (and countless others) close your account you're sending a message to Amex that their business practices aren't welcomed by most consumers.