topic Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info in Credit Cards

Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

Gunnar419 — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 15:29:48 GMT

I've complained before that Chase has never given me an auto CLI in the three years I've had their Amazon Visa. I'd rather SD the card than take an HP for a chance at getting what every other credit card company gives me easily and willingly.

I've been going around and around with Chase CSRs on whether they'll ever give me auto luv or whether I'm on some auto CLI blacklist in spite of a credit score in the mid 700s and a perfect record with them and all my other ccs.

This morning they responded with boilerplate information that I KNOW is bogus or at least crazy misleading:

Please be informed that if you request for a credit limit
increase, the request cannot be completed without
accessing the credit report. Beginning February 22, 2010,
issuers are required to determine the Customer?s Ability
to Pay prior to increasing credit lines on existing
accounts. In order to calculate the Ability to Pay of each
Customer, issuers must obtain the Gross Annual Income
(pre-tax).

Additionally, issuers are required to determine existing
debt obligations (or monthly payments), as reflected on
the customer?s credit report and to complete a debt burden
calculation, using current debt obligations, along with
estimated additional payment associated with the increased
credit line to be approved and assessing that relative to
the reported income.

I know about the legal requirement for verification, but if what Chase claims true, then every other ccc in the world is breaking the law by giving any auto CLI ever or giving any CLI with an SP, and I really don't think it's likely that every other ccc except Chase is a bunch of lawbreakers.

What the bleep is wrong with Chase?

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

Mike360 — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 16:13:32 GMT

Chase DOES do auto CLI. There's plenty of people on this board that have had auto increases including me. The problem here is the consumer that believes they are entitled to a increase just because they have been a customer for X amount of years or have paid bills on time for X amount of years. Chase credit increases are hard pulls and this is the same way for many companies. If you think 3 years is bad i went 6 years without any increase with Capital One and Target. I've had my Sears card for 7 years with no increase.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

Creditaddict — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 16:32:30 GMT

@Gunnar419 wrote:
I've complained before that Chase has never given me an auto CLI in the three years I've had their Amazon Visa. I'd rather SD the card than take an HP for a chance at getting what every other credit card company gives me easily and willingly.

I've been going around and around with Chase CSRs on whether they'll ever give me auto luv or whether I'm on some auto CLI blacklist in spite of a credit score in the mid 700s and a perfect record with them and all my other ccs.

This morning they responded with boilerplate information that I KNOW is bogus or at least crazy misleading:
Please be informed that if you request for a credit limit
increase, the request cannot be completed without
accessing the credit report. Beginning February 22, 2010,
issuers are required to determine the Customer?s Ability
to Pay prior to increasing credit lines on existing
accounts. In order to calculate the Ability to Pay of each
Customer, issuers must obtain the Gross Annual Income
(pre-tax).

Additionally, issuers are required to determine existing
debt obligations (or monthly payments), as reflected on
the customer?s credit report and to complete a debt burden
calculation, using current debt obligations, along with
estimated additional payment associated with the increased
credit line to be approved and assessing that relative to
the reported income.
I know about the legal requirement for verification, but if what Chase claims true, then every other ccc in the world is breaking the law by giving any auto CLI ever or giving any CLI with an SP, and I really don't think it's likely that every other ccc except Chase is a bunch of lawbreakers.

What the bleep is wrong with Chase?

The fact is Chase leaves the wording just so that if you are not informed credit people like us here at "Myfico" you would probably just hear something related to government regulations and banks now require... etc. etc. but the wording missing is Chase COULD receive this credit information they say they are "Required" to have through a SP but they choose to do ALL customer initiated requests via HP (we have seen some rare times were someone has manageged to get a CLI on a sp, not sure how, I would love direct number to credit person that knew how!) but either way, it's a side of Chase that is a little behind.

Yes, I think banks should ditch this HP thing after approval but if they are going to do HP's the department should at least be on the same lending standards as the new cards department! they seem to be on different moons sometimes based on the posts here where people can't get more than $500 or move to $2k after years and then go and apply for a new card and get instant $15k!!!

and for other poster, yes maybe we do play to hard on chase when so many of us are willing to overlook or just expect from target or capital one... but that doesn't change that I think it's very fair for me the consumer to "EXPECT" that if my credit is good and stays good, even gets better, and I get MUCH better credit, but not tons of it, and keep my inq's low, my util. low, that if you ARE actually reviewing the account every 6 months, that it shows it! I don't think it's out of line to expect a credit card to grow.

But I also tend to "try" to keep in mind when I'm looking for banks to build my relationship with into the future which banks tend to do that! (Have not really been good at that in the past, but trying to get better about that!)

That's why Navy is #1 in my wallet!

Now I just need a new #2 or #3 Amex that isn't through Amex! (But currently can't beat the 6% Grocery but would like to find something else for my Costco and gas that also currently goes on Blue or Costco.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

LS2982 — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:35:54 GMT

@Mike360 wrote:
Chase DOES do auto CLI. There's plenty of people on this board that have had auto increases including me. The problem here is the consumer that believes they are entitled to a increase just because they have been a customer for X amount of years or have paid bills on time for X amount of years. Chase credit increases are hard pulls and this is the same way for many companies. If you think 3 years is bad i went 6 years without any increase with Capital One and Target. I've had my Sears card for 7 years with no increase.

Spot on!

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 20:22:13 GMT

@Mike360 wrote:
Chase DOES do auto CLI. There's plenty of people on this board that have had auto increases including me. The problem here is the consumer that believes they are entitled to a increase just because they have been a customer for X amount of years or have paid bills on time for X amount of years. Chase credit increases are hard pulls and this is the same way for many companies. If you think 3 years is bad i went 6 years without any increase with Capital One and Target. I've had my Sears card for 7 years with no increase.

I have not personally read about more than 10 Chase Freedom auto-CLIs in the last three years.

Entitled to an increase? Not at all.

We are entitled, however, to decide which companies benefit from fees associated with our transactions.

When Chase decides to recognize and reward payment/credit history, their product emerge from my sock drawer.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Jun 2013 20:34:34 GMT

The best way is free market economics. If a bank cannot provide a product which customer likes then customer should move on greener pastures.
Free market ensure for every Chase like HP demanding lender you have lenders like Amex which will give you cli based on SP.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

CreditScholar — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 02:44:17 GMT

@LS2982 wrote:
@Mike360 wrote:
Chase DOES do auto CLI. There's plenty of people on this board that have had auto increases including me. The problem here is the consumer that believes they are entitled to a increase just because they have been a customer for X amount of years or have paid bills on time for X amount of years. Chase credit increases are hard pulls and this is the same way for many companies. If you think 3 years is bad i went 6 years without any increase with Capital One and Target. I've had my Sears card for 7 years with no increase.
Spot on!

+1. The OP isn't entitled to anything just because he's been a customer for a few years. The better question is: how much money have you made them during that time? And perhaps: does you need that extra CLI? If you're not charging enough monthly, they won't give it to you.

It costs Chase something everytime they give you a CLI, so they won't give it if they don't see a need. If you read carefully, it's saying that customer-requested CLIs will require a credit pull. It mentions nothing about lender initiated CLIs, so as per the T&C it applies to you but not to them.

Besides, Amazon is one of Chase's bottom-feeder cards (along with Freedom, Disney, etc.). I woudn't expect too much from that card specifically, since it seems to have unique quirks and nuances that aren't present in many of their other products.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 02:52:32 GMT

@Gunnar419 wrote:
I've complained before that Chase has never given me an auto CLI in the three years I've had their Amazon Visa. I'd rather SD the card than take an HP for a chance at getting what every other credit card company gives me easily and willingly.

I've been going around and around with Chase CSRs on whether they'll ever give me auto luv or whether I'm on some auto CLI blacklist in spite of a credit score in the mid 700s and a perfect record with them and all my other ccs.

This morning they responded with boilerplate information that I KNOW is bogus or at least crazy misleading:
Please be informed that if you request for a credit limit
increase, the request cannot be completed without
accessing the credit report. Beginning February 22, 2010,
issuers are required to determine the Customer?s Ability
to Pay prior to increasing credit lines on existing
accounts. In order to calculate the Ability to Pay of each
Customer, issuers must obtain the Gross Annual Income
(pre-tax).

Additionally, issuers are required to determine existing
debt obligations (or monthly payments), as reflected on
the customer?s credit report and to complete a debt burden
calculation, using current debt obligations, along with
estimated additional payment associated with the increased
credit line to be approved and assessing that relative to
the reported income.
I know about the legal requirement for verification, but if what Chase claims true, then every other ccc in the world is breaking the law by giving any auto CLI ever or giving any CLI with an SP, and I really don't think it's likely that every other ccc except Chase is a bunch of lawbreakers.

What the bleep is wrong with Chase?

Their reply is very loosely termed.

Look at this sentence for example.

Beginning February 22, 2010,
issuers are required to determine the Customer?s Ability
to Pay prior to increasing credit lines on existing
accounts.

Required by who? By law? By company policy?

It could be a company policy emcompassing all cards they issue, so technically that info may not be bogus. It's quite shady, but the wording is done in such a way it's meant to look convincing to most people and at the same time not necessarily "conning" people.

A HP is expected everytime one seeks credit. That's kinda the purpose of counting inquiries in the first place. Any lender that doesn't do so is bestowing a privilege, not a right.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 02:55:50 GMT

@CreditScholar wrote:
@LS2982 wrote:
@Mike360 wrote:
Chase DOES do auto CLI. There's plenty of people on this board that have had auto increases including me. The problem here is the consumer that believes they are entitled to a increase just because they have been a customer for X amount of years or have paid bills on time for X amount of years. Chase credit increases are hard pulls and this is the same way for many companies. If you think 3 years is bad i went 6 years without any increase with Capital One and Target. I've had my Sears card for 7 years with no increase.
Spot on!
+1. The OP isn't entitled to anything just because he's been a customer for a few years. The better question is: how much money have you made them during that time? And perhaps: does you need that extra CLI? If you're not charging enough monthly, they won't give it to you.

It costs Chase something everytime they give you a CLI, so they won't give it if they don't see a need. If you read carefully, it's saying that customer-requested CLIs will require a credit pull. It mentions nothing about lender initiated CLIs, so as per the T&C it applies to you but not to them.

Besides, Amazon is one of Chase's bottom-feeder cards (along with Freedom, Disney, etc.). I woudn't expect too much from that card specifically, since it seems to have unique quirks and nuances that aren't present in many of their other products.

So technically, not using the card is saving me agita and them money.

It's a win, win!

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

CreditScholar — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 03:14:30 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@CreditScholar wrote:
@LS2982 wrote:
@Mike360 wrote:
Chase DOES do auto CLI. There's plenty of people on this board that have had auto increases including me. The problem here is the consumer that believes they are entitled to a increase just because they have been a customer for X amount of years or have paid bills on time for X amount of years. Chase credit increases are hard pulls and this is the same way for many companies. If you think 3 years is bad i went 6 years without any increase with Capital One and Target. I've had my Sears card for 7 years with no increase.
Spot on!
+1. The OP isn't entitled to anything just because he's been a customer for a few years. The better question is: how much money have you made them during that time? And perhaps: does you need that extra CLI? If you're not charging enough monthly, they won't give it to you.

It costs Chase something everytime they give you a CLI, so they won't give it if they don't see a need. If you read carefully, it's saying that customer-requested CLIs will require a credit pull. It mentions nothing about lender initiated CLIs, so as per the T&C it applies to you but not to them.

Besides, Amazon is one of Chase's bottom-feeder cards (along with Freedom, Disney, etc.). I woudn't expect too much from that card specifically, since it seems to have unique quirks and nuances that aren't present in many of their other products.
So technically, not using the card is saving me agita and them money.

It's a win, win!

Not using a no-AF card costs them money. It costs something to keep you on the computer system, maintain your records (even in a mimimal way), and they need to keep a certain amount of assets for every dollar in credit they extend (whether you use that credit or not). This is why lenders will sometimes shut down unused accounts.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

SnackTrader — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 03:31:12 GMT

@enharu

February 22, 2010 was the effective date for many of the rules required by the CARD Act. So the answer to your all of your questions is: required by Congress.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

HiLine — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 03:41:25 GMT

Lets not forget that a lender can view credit profiles without pulling a hard inquiry. Soft inquiries exist for a reason.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

CreditScholar — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 03:45:35 GMT

@HiLine wrote:
Lets not forget that a lender can view credit profiles without pulling a hard inquiry. Soft inquiries exist for a reason.

They can, but it's there to cover their butts just in case. It costs something for a bank to give you a CLI, since they need to have a certain level of assets for every dollar in credit they extend. Therefore it needs to cost you something as well, in this case a HP. Otherwise if there was no cost to the individual, people would be asking for CLIs weekly, innudating their systems creating a huge hassle to manage.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

HiLine — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 04:16:43 GMT

@CreditScholar wrote:
@HiLine wrote:
Lets not forget that a lender can view credit profiles without pulling a hard inquiry. Soft inquiries exist for a reason.
They can, but it's there to cover their butts just in case. It costs something for a bank to give you a CLI, since they need to have a certain level of assets for every dollar in credit they extend. Therefore it needs to cost you something as well, in this case a HP. Otherwise if there was no cost to the individual, people would be asking for CLIs weekly, innudating their systems creating a huge hassle to manage.

Well that's a lot of butts to cover since many lenders out there approve CLI requests based on soft inquiries. Why aren't their systems inundated? Based on your reasoning, if a CLI request is denied, which doesn't cost the bank anything, why would they still code the inquiry as a hard inquiry?

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

Creditaddict — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 04:19:51 GMT

@SnackTrader wrote:
@Anonymous

February 22, 2010 was the effective date for many of the rules required by the CARD Act. So the answer to your all of your questions is: required by Congress.

I don't know what you are trying ot state here but the Card Act states no such thing of HARD INQ are required.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

CreditScholar — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 04:27:31 GMT

@HiLine wrote:
@CreditScholar wrote:
@HiLine wrote:
Lets not forget that a lender can view credit profiles without pulling a hard inquiry. Soft inquiries exist for a reason.
They can, but it's there to cover their butts just in case. It costs something for a bank to give you a CLI, since they need to have a certain level of assets for every dollar in credit they extend. Therefore it needs to cost you something as well, in this case a HP. Otherwise if there was no cost to the individual, people would be asking for CLIs weekly, innudating their systems creating a huge hassle to manage.
Well that's a lot of butts to cover since many lenders out there approve CLI requests based on soft inquiries. Why aren't their systems inundated? Based on your reasoning, if a CLI request is denied, which doesn't cost the bank anything, why would they still code the inquiry as a hard inquiry?

To remind people not to ask too often. If people always knew it would be a soft-pull, it would open the floodgates to endless numbers of requests. The reason being is that if it's denied, it doesn't hurt them at all. However the bank will still need to initiate that SP, which uses computing resources, etc.

Using HPs (or the threat of HPs) limits the number of requests they get by essentially saying to the customer: Do you really need that extra credit? If it's that important to you that's fine, just be prepared to take a hit to your credit report for it.

It's the same reason why health insurance companies have a co-payment. It reminds you that even if all other expenses are covered, seeing your doctor isn't free. Without a co-payment there would be bored/lonely people (as an example but I'm sure there are many other categories) who would see their doctor even when not necessary. That pulls him/her away from seeing other patients in need, and therefore isn't a wise use of scarce resources.

Therefore in this scenario, co-payments serve to limit the number of "time-wasters". HPs serve the same function for CLI requests.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

HiLine — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 04:28:17 GMT

AFAIK, no Card Act has ever said anything about hard inquiries vs soft inquiries. Too small a population actually cares about this that it doesn't deserve a place in a piece of legislation.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

HiLine — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 04:30:16 GMT

@CreditScholar wrote:
@HiLine wrote:
@CreditScholar wrote:
@HiLine wrote:
Lets not forget that a lender can view credit profiles without pulling a hard inquiry. Soft inquiries exist for a reason.
They can, but it's there to cover their butts just in case. It costs something for a bank to give you a CLI, since they need to have a certain level of assets for every dollar in credit they extend. Therefore it needs to cost you something as well, in this case a HP. Otherwise if there was no cost to the individual, people would be asking for CLIs weekly, innudating their systems creating a huge hassle to manage.
Well that's a lot of butts to cover since many lenders out there approve CLI requests based on soft inquiries. Why aren't their systems inundated? Based on your reasoning, if a CLI request is denied, which doesn't cost the bank anything, why would they still code the inquiry as a hard inquiry?
To remind people not to ask too often. If people always knew it would be a soft-pull, it would open the floodgates to endless numbers of requests. The reason being is that if it's denied, it doesn't hurt them at all. However the bank will still need to initiate that SP, which uses computing resources, etc.

Using HPs (or the threat of HPs) limits the number of requests they get by essentially saying to the customer: Do you really need that extra credit? If it's that important to you that's fine, just be prepared to take a hit to your credit report for it.

It's the same reason why health insurance companies have a co-payment. It reminds you that even if all other expenses are covered, seeing your doctor isn't free. Without a co-payment there would be bored/lonely people (as an example but I'm sure there are many other categories) who would see their doctor even when not necessary. That pulls him/her away from seeing other patients in need, and therefore isn't a wise use of scarce resources.

Therefore in this scenario, co-payments serve to limit the number of "time-wasters". HPs serve the same function for CLI requests.

Fair points. What's your theory for why banks that approve CLI requests based on SP's don't get their systems inundated?

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

CreditScholar — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 04:35:50 GMT

@HiLine wrote:
@CreditScholar wrote:
@HiLine wrote:
@CreditScholar wrote:
@HiLine wrote:
Lets not forget that a lender can view credit profiles without pulling a hard inquiry. Soft inquiries exist for a reason.
They can, but it's there to cover their butts just in case. It costs something for a bank to give you a CLI, since they need to have a certain level of assets for every dollar in credit they extend. Therefore it needs to cost you something as well, in this case a HP. Otherwise if there was no cost to the individual, people would be asking for CLIs weekly, innudating their systems creating a huge hassle to manage.
Well that's a lot of butts to cover since many lenders out there approve CLI requests based on soft inquiries. Why aren't their systems inundated? Based on your reasoning, if a CLI request is denied, which doesn't cost the bank anything, why would they still code the inquiry as a hard inquiry?
To remind people not to ask too often. If people always knew it would be a soft-pull, it would open the floodgates to endless numbers of requests. The reason being is that if it's denied, it doesn't hurt them at all. However the bank will still need to initiate that SP, which uses computing resources, etc.

Using HPs (or the threat of HPs) limits the number of requests they get by essentially saying to the customer: Do you really need that extra credit? If it's that important to you that's fine, just be prepared to take a hit to your credit report for it.

It's the same reason why health insurance companies have a co-payment. It reminds you that even if all other expenses are covered, seeing your doctor isn't free. Without a co-payment there would be bored/lonely people (as an example but I'm sure there are many other categories) who would see their doctor even when not necessary. That pulls him/her away from seeing other patients in need, and therefore isn't a wise use of scarce resources.

Therefore in this scenario, co-payments serve to limit the number of "time-wasters". HPs serve the same function for CLI requests.
Fair points. What's your theory for why banks that approve CLI requests based on SP's don't get their systems inundated?

It's their discretion as to whether or not they want to SP or HP. However they need to state upfront to customers that anytime you request a CLI, it could result in a HP. Otherwise there would be people saying "But I didn't knowwww!!!". They need to put that threat on the table as a deterrent to those who might otherwise abuse the system by requesting CLIs all the time.

Some banks will choose to SP based on individual request (and it's probably more likely for more valued customers, those with specially flagged cases via Exec. office), while others establish it as policy like Amex (who have historically dealt with high net worth customers who expect better treatment anyways). However those are the exceptions rather than the norm, and by putting this upfront people are less able to claim (or argue) igonrance after the fact. Even Amex has an internal policy of a CLI every 3-6 months based on your history with that card. This limits their exposure to SPs, plus they can use their reputational advantage to scare people from rocking the boat too much via FR.

Re: Chase gives BOGUS CLI info

indiolatino61 — Mon, 03 Jun 2013 06:25:29 GMT

@Gunnar419 wrote:
I've complained before that Chase has never given me an auto CLI in the three years I've had their Amazon Visa. I'd rather SD the card than take an HP for a chance at getting what every other credit card company gives me easily and willingly.

I've been going around and around with Chase CSRs on whether they'll ever give me auto luv or whether I'm on some auto CLI blacklist in spite of a credit score in the mid 700s and a perfect record with them and all my other ccs.

This morning they responded with boilerplate information that I KNOW is bogus or at least crazy misleading:
Please be informed that if you request for a credit limit
increase, the request cannot be completed without
accessing the credit report. Beginning February 22, 2010,
issuers are required to determine the Customer?s Ability
to Pay prior to increasing credit lines on existing
accounts. In order to calculate the Ability to Pay of each
Customer, issuers must obtain the Gross Annual Income
(pre-tax).

Additionally, issuers are required to determine existing
debt obligations (or monthly payments), as reflected on
the customer?s credit report and to complete a debt burden
calculation, using current debt obligations, along with
estimated additional payment associated with the increased
credit line to be approved and assessing that relative to
the reported income.
I know about the legal requirement for verification, but if what Chase claims true, then every other ccc in the world is breaking the law by giving any auto CLI ever or giving any CLI with an SP, and I really don't think it's likely that every other ccc except Chase is a bunch of lawbreakers.

What the bleep is wrong with Chase?

I've read each of the responses to this post, and I am quite confused with the "you're not entitled to anything" attitudes on many comments. If one is to be content without a CLI for many years, then why is the EO email number to Capital One so often suggested and used here? Why are there a myriad of backdoor numbers for recons? Why is everyone congratulated when they procure a CLI after being told "NO!" several times? The OP merely wanted to share his experience trying to find an answer to his lack of CLI offers. I feel the comments where he feels "entitled" because he has been a member for many years was not very fair or helpful. We are all guilty of feeling at least partly "entitled" either because we have been a card holder for many years, or have a perfect relationship, or spend a high amount monthly...if this was not the case, as I mentioned before, backdoor numbers and EO email addresses would not be so prevalent. Just my humble opinion on this matter. Thank you.