topic Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex? in Credit Cards

Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

ztnjpv — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 20:53:31 GMT

I recently got the SPG Biz and Amex Gold Biz for the sweet sign up bonuses. The SPG's 25,000 are already banked and the Gold's 75,000 will be coming in the next month or so. I just applied for these on 5/17/13, received them a few days later and then made the spending requirements within the next week or so. Mission almost accomplished. Just gotta secure my MR points in a different currency or open another Amex that is MR eligible.

I know Amex has the policy that you can't be eligible for future new applicant bonuses if you have owned the cards during ther last 12 months. So, by that rationale, the sooner these are closed the better. Anyone ever have negative back lash from Amex for going after the bonus and then closing the cards shortly have getting the bonus?

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 21:30:59 GMT

I haven't done that but I would imagine AMEX would blacklist you if they suspected that you're just churning their cards.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

LS2982 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 21:35:17 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I haven't done that but I would imagine AMEX would blacklist you if they suspected that you're just churning their cards.

I agree

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

navigatethis12 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:13:32 GMT

My mom recently signed up for the Platinum when it was 100,000 points after $3,000 spend. I told her to spend, sell the points and close the card to get a refund of the fee. On the telephone call to close the card, the woman made a point to mention that my mom had redeemed the points already and just got the card but cancelled anyway. The whole thing happened within two months and her Blue Cash Everyday is still open. I plan to close the Delta and Premier Rewards Gold pretty soon, so I will see what happens to me. If you don't care about their cards (we don't) you can do it. If you would care if they closed your cards for abusing sign up bonuses or prevent you from earning points in the future, you could just not do it.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

LS2982 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:16:13 GMT

@navigatethis12 wrote:
My mom recently signed up for the Platinum when it was 100,000 points after $3,000 spend. I told her to spend, sell the points and close the card to get a refund of the fee. On the telephone call to close the card, the woman made a point to mention that my mom had redeemed the points already and just got the card but cancelled anyway. The whole thing happened within two months and her Blue Cash Everyday is still open. I plan to close the Delta and Premier Rewards Gold pretty soon, so I will see what happens to me. If you don't care about their cards (we don't) you can do it. If you would care if they closed your cards for abusing sign up bonuses or prevent you from earning points in the future, you could just not do it.

Do you think a lot of this happening will eventually hurt everyone by mediocre sign up bonuses in the future?

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:16:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I haven't done that but I would imagine AMEX would blacklist you if they suspected that you're just churning their cards.

+1.

Not sure if Amex is as strict as Chase is on this, but if they are, you will be blacklisted for at least some time. I won't be surprised though.

If you do this once or twice over the span of say uh 5 years, you probably should be fine.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:19:02 GMT

@LS2982 wrote:
Do you think a lot of this happening will eventually hurt everyone by mediocre sign up bonuses in the future?

I don't think it will, since people who do this are just a very very small group.

Banks will probably just enforce even stricter rules on this group of people, such as either lowering the threshold to get blacklisted, or not qualifying them for future sign-up bonuses entirely.

Most people won't do this because of the inquiry + AAoA hit on the account.

Sign-up bonuses are also mostly meant as a marketing tool to attract customers. Lackluster bonuses will hardly attract anyone unless the card has really good benefits.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

navigatethis12 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:22:20 GMT

@LS2982 wrote:
Do you think a lot of this happening will eventually hurt everyone by mediocre sign up bonuses in the future?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but this was the first and most likely only time that we will do this. Their sign up bonuses are already mediocre and those offers were for a limited time only. Unlike others, my experiences with American Express have been terrible, so I am not concerned about them losing money on me. Most people on here suggest people doing the same with the Sapphire Preferred.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

LS2982 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:33:38 GMT

@navigatethis12 wrote:
@LS2982 wrote:
Do you think a lot of this happening will eventually hurt everyone by mediocre sign up bonuses in the future?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but this was the first and most likely only time that we will do this. Their sign up bonuses are already mediocre and those offers were for a limited time only. Unlike others, my experiences with American Express have been terrible, so I am not concerned about them losing money on me. Most people on here suggest people doing the same with the Sapphire Preferred.

Im curious about it because it doesn't seem worth it to me. I guess it is for some.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Open123 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:37:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Sign-up bonuses are also mostly meant as a marketing tool to attract customers. Lackluster bonuses will hardly attract anyone unless the card has really good benefits.

Sign-up bonuses are based on interest rates and current economic environment.

If they were to be reduced, it wouldn't be because of those who sign up and cancel, but a change in strategy for marketing dollars. For instance, if rates were 10%, it would make more sense for the Bank to loan out their cash or earn short term interest; conversely, with such low rates and imminent inflation (devaluation), makes much more sense to allocate excess cash towards client acquisition, since this will also lower taxable income.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

LS2982 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:40:34 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Sign-up bonuses are also mostly meant as a marketing tool to attract customers. Lackluster bonuses will hardly attract anyone unless the card has really good benefits.

+1

Sign-up bonuses are based on interest rates and current economic environment.

If they were to be reduced, it wouldn't be because of those who sign up and cancel, but a change in strategy for marketing dollars. For instance, if rates were 10%, it would make more sense for the Bank to loan out their cash or earn short term interest; conversely, with such low rates and imminent inflation (devaluation), makes much more sense to allocate excess cash towards client acquisition, since this will also lower taxable income.

Good Info Open, I always find your posts educational and informative!

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:41:07 GMT

@LS2982 wrote:
@navigatethis12 wrote:
@LS2982 wrote:
Do you think a lot of this happening will eventually hurt everyone by mediocre sign up bonuses in the future?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but this was the first and most likely only time that we will do this. Their sign up bonuses are already mediocre and those offers were for a limited time only. Unlike others, my experiences with American Express have been terrible, so I am not concerned about them losing money on me. Most people on here suggest people doing the same with the Sapphire Preferred.
Im curious about it because it doesn't seem worth it to me. I guess it is for some.

Barclays and Chase has really attractive sign-up bonuses IMO.

For certain cards, i.e. Arrival, it is pretty much a 40% discount for your shopping / travel expenses.

The bold and CSP has $400-600 bonuses as well which is a nice discount.

The UA Explorer has a 55k miles bonus with just 1k spend. With 65k UA miles I can redeem for a SQ air ticket which would cost me $2500-3400 USD.

For me the UA Explorer and Arrival well worth the inquiry + AAoA hit, but that's just me. I'm not saying you're wrong.

Chase is the last company anyone would want to abuse for sign-up bonuses though. They are extremely strict on this.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Open123 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:43:28 GMT

@LS2982 wrote:
@navigatethis12 wrote:
@LS2982 wrote:
Do you think a lot of this happening will eventually hurt everyone by mediocre sign up bonuses in the future?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but this was the first and most likely only time that we will do this. Their sign up bonuses are already mediocre and those offers were for a limited time only. Unlike others, my experiences with American Express have been terrible, so I am not concerned about them losing money on me. Most people on here suggest people doing the same with the Sapphire Preferred.
Im curious about it because it doesn't seem worth it to me. I guess it is for some.

It's worth it when the sign up bonus is high, but not if it's low.

At 10K, I'd probably never app for another card again. At 50K, I'd app for all I can because it'll likely never repeat itself. It's really only through a very unique set of events which has caused bonuses to be so high. After this phase is over, we'll likely not see the such high sign-up bonuses for a long time.

My motto is when everyone is selling, buy. Conversely, when everyone is buying, sell.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:48:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@LS2982 wrote:
@navigatethis12 wrote:
@LS2982 wrote:
Do you think a lot of this happening will eventually hurt everyone by mediocre sign up bonuses in the future?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but this was the first and most likely only time that we will do this. Their sign up bonuses are already mediocre and those offers were for a limited time only. Unlike others, my experiences with American Express have been terrible, so I am not concerned about them losing money on me. Most people on here suggest people doing the same with the Sapphire Preferred.
Im curious about it because it doesn't seem worth it to me. I guess it is for some.
Barclays and Chase has really attractive sign-up bonuses IMO.
For certain cards, i.e. Arrival, it is pretty much a 40% discount for your shopping / travel expenses.
The bold and CSP has $400-600 bonuses as well which is a nice discount.
The UA Explorer has a 55k miles bonus with just 1k spend. With 65k UA miles I can redeem for a SQ air ticket which would cost me $2500-3400 USD.

For me the UA Explorer and Arrival well worth the inquiry + AAoA hit, but that's just me. I'm not saying you're wrong.
Chase is the last company anyone would want to abuse for sign-up bonuses though. They are extremely strict on this.

Agreed wholeheartly, although if you are getting only $400-600 value out of your Ink or CSP bonus you should just sell them to me! I just picked up a trip to Hong Kong $8000 retail business class for $90 in taxes + 120,000 points

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Open123 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:51:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Agreed wholeheartly, although if you are getting only $400-600 value out of your Ink or CSP bonus you should just sell them to me! I just picked up a trip to Hong Kong $8000 retail business class for $90 in taxes + 120,000 points

This is the way to use travel points, not cash or statement credit redemptions!

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

LS2982 — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:53:12 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Agreed wholeheartly, although if you are getting only $400-600 value out of your Ink or CSP bonus you should just sell them to me! I just picked up a trip to Hong Kong $8000 retail business class for $90 in taxes + 120,000 points
+1

This is the way to use travel points, not cash or statement credit redemptions!

Im definitely trying to use MR points for travel just a PITA to rack up a lot!

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:57:30 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Agreed wholeheartly, although if you are getting only $400-600 value out of your Ink or CSP bonus you should just sell them to me! I just picked up a trip to Hong Kong $8000 retail business class for $90 in taxes + 120,000 points

lol sorry bout the confusion. I meant to just write it was whatever dollar amount they're equivalent to, if there was a cashback value.

I transfered all my UR points to UA and then booked SQ flights through UA. Got a nice redemption rate, but maybe I could have done better.

What are the ccp like if UR are transferred to Hyatt / Marriot? What's generally the "best" transfer partner?

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:58:31 GMT

@LS2982 wrote:
@Open123 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Agreed wholeheartly, although if you are getting only $400-600 value out of your Ink or CSP bonus you should just sell them to me! I just picked up a trip to Hong Kong $8000 retail business class for $90 in taxes + 120,000 points
+1

This is the way to use travel points, not cash or statement credit redemptions!
Im definitely trying to use MR points for travel just a PITA to rack up a lot!

Remember the best way to use them is MR points to Air Canada/Aeroplan to United flights. 75k points for round trip to anywhere if you use them right at the right time.

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 09 Jun 2013 23:59:25 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Agreed wholeheartly, although if you are getting only $400-600 value out of your Ink or CSP bonus you should just sell them to me! I just picked up a trip to Hong Kong $8000 retail business class for $90 in taxes + 120,000 points
+1

This is the way to use travel points, not cash or statement credit redemptions!

Yep. And flying business on a 13 hour flight...well...just rocks! Reclining chair, more space, footrest, laptop power....

Re: Negative Consequences to churning Amex?

navigatethis12 — Mon, 10 Jun 2013 00:09:02 GMT

@LS2982 wrote:
Im curious about it because it doesn't seem worth it to me. I guess it is for some.

Well I think $1200 dollars is worth this risk of American Express getting upset. I will probably make around the same when I get around to unloading the points. No one in our family travels, so American Express isn't important to us. I don't usually take an inquiry or new account unless the bonus is $300 or the no interest period is long.