topic Re: Terms and Conditions in Credit Cards

Terms and Conditions

oscar_actuary — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 06:18:12 GMT

I never read them

Do any of the CC sneak anything in that would raise the hair on my back ?

My attitude towards these things is "they're not allowed to put some ridiculous item in there such "We can add a $100 annual fee to your statement without warning"

Does anyone read them?

I do read my mortgage docs when they send them in advance

Re: Terms and Conditions

myjourney — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 06:19:32 GMT

Sad to say but yes in fact read the new one today.

I like to know all the in's and out's of anything financial especially if I enter into an agreement with them.

Re: Terms and Conditions

09Lexie — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 06:20:41 GMT

You should - never know what might be lurking in the fine print.

Re: Terms and Conditions

HiLine — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:03:54 GMT

You don't read the Terms and Conditions? What? Really?

J/k

I usually glance at the T&C of my new cards once, and then when I write a credit card review on my blog I would pull out the T&C and read between the lines.

Re: Terms and Conditions

FinStar — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:13:17 GMT

@myjourney wrote:
Sad to say but yes in fact read the new one today.
I like to know all the in's and out's of anything financial especially if I enter into an agreement with them.

Since it is considered a financial contract/agreement between you and the lender, and for obvious reasons, you should be familiar with their T&C. It's actually amusing to hear when folks complain or learn about the T&C if something adversely impacts their accounts...comments like "Oh, I didn't know there was an arbitration clause... I didn't know there was a residual interest charge... How come my credit limit was reduced?!? ...Are you sure those late fees aren't a violation of the Credit Act?"

Re: Terms and Conditions

HiLine — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:21:05 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@myjourney wrote:
Sad to say but yes in fact read the new one today.
I like to know all the in's and out's of anything financial especially if I enter into an agreement with them.

+1
Since it is considered a financial contract/agreement between you and the lender, and for obvious reasons, you should be familiar with their T&C. It's actually amusing to hear when folks complain or learn about the T&C if something adversely impacts their accounts...comments like "Oh, I didn't know there was an arbitration clause... I didn't know there was a residual interest charge... How come my credit limit was reduced?!? ...Are you sure those late fees aren't a violation of the Credit Act?"

Can't blame those that are financially illiterate. I know many people that can't comprehend any legal document and it is not like the T&C's are presented in the most readable manner anyway.

Re: Terms and Conditions

oscar_actuary — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:24:08 GMT

I guess I understand there are things like penalty rates. But, is it wrong to presume that they can't put just any arbitrary item in there and hold you accountable? "If you charge over $200 on Sundays, we reserve the right to add a $50 surcharge". "You must tithe using this card".

In other words, I'll take the risk of something biting me if I miss a payment, or run afoul; but otheriwse count on common sense and law? to keep me safe. Plus I'm too busy posting and reading and working and eating to read all these CC terms.

On a related note, among the premium cards (or pick from my sig to personalize it for me), are there any significant differences in terms of T&C or benefits (i.e. protections, liability, warranty), or have al the majors caught up and pretty much take care of us the same?

thanks, I know this is a compound thread now, but I can derail my own, yes?

Re: Terms and Conditions

HiLine — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:28:51 GMT

They are not nearly as bad as iTune's famous T&C lol. There are certain rules set by law that they have to abide by, but apart from that everything is at the bank's discretion.
Overall though, I think regulation has done a good job making sure the banks cannot legally impose nonsensical T&C on consumers. Regarding the most important items such as late fees, due date, APR and credit calculation method, they are more or less the same.

Re: Terms and Conditions

FinStar — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:30:33 GMT

@HiLine wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
@myjourney wrote:
Sad to say but yes in fact read the new one today.
I like to know all the in's and out's of anything financial especially if I enter into an agreement with them.

+1
Since it is considered a financial contract/agreement between you and the lender, and for obvious reasons, you should be familiar with their T&C. It's actually amusing to hear when folks complain or learn about the T&C if something adversely impacts their accounts...comments like "Oh, I didn't know there was an arbitration clause... I didn't know there was a residual interest charge... How come my credit limit was reduced?!? ...Are you sure those late fees aren't a violation of the Credit Act?"
Can't blame those that are financially illiterate. I know many people that can't comprehend any legal document and it is not like the T&C's are presented in the most readable manner anyway.

I'll be blunt - I can. Where does individual accountability and a simple willingness to learn or be educated about financial matters come into place? If an individual is entering into a contract, even as somewhat simple (to a certain extent) as a credit card loan... where do you draw the line? While no financial institution is by far perfect, they are regulated frequently enough by the Feds, hence the T&C agreement and subsequent revisions that lay out all the conditions of the contract.

Re: Terms and Conditions

HiLine — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:31:46 GMT

@oscar_actuary wrote:

On a related note, among the premium cards (or pick from my sig to personalize it for me), are there any significant differences in terms of T&C or benefits (i.e. protections, liability, warranty), or have al the majors caught up and pretty much take care of us the same?

thanks, I know this is a compound thread now, but I can derail my own, yes?

Most cards these days have standard benefits although there are many variations in coverage. With so many cards, it'd be better for you to read the T&C of each card if you're curious about the differences. No one on this board has the T&C of all the particular cards that you have.

Re: Terms and Conditions

HiLine — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 07:38:30 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@HiLine wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
@myjourney wrote:
Sad to say but yes in fact read the new one today.
I like to know all the in's and out's of anything financial especially if I enter into an agreement with them.

+1
Since it is considered a financial contract/agreement between you and the lender, and for obvious reasons, you should be familiar with their T&C. It's actually amusing to hear when folks complain or learn about the T&C if something adversely impacts their accounts...comments like "Oh, I didn't know there was an arbitration clause... I didn't know there was a residual interest charge... How come my credit limit was reduced?!? ...Are you sure those late fees aren't a violation of the Credit Act?"
Can't blame those that are financially illiterate. I know many people that can't comprehend any legal document and it is not like the T&C's are presented in the most readable manner anyway.
I'll be blunt - I can. Where does individual accountability and a simple willingness to learn or be educated about financial matters come into place? If an individual is entering into a contract, even as somewhat simple (to a certain extent) as a credit card loan... where do you draw the line? While no financial institution is by far perfect, they are regulated frequently enough by the Feds, hence the T&C agreement and subsequent revisions that lay out all the conditions of the contract.

It is very unfortunate that in a law-driven society the citizens are not able to comprehend even the most important contracts that matter to them. But I guess that's how lawyers make money.

Re: Terms and Conditions

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:14:46 GMT

@oscar_actuary wrote:
I guess I understand there are things like penalty rates. But, is it wrong to presume that they can't put just any arbitrary item in there and hold you accountable? "If you charge over $200 on Sundays, we reserve the right to add a $50 surcharge". "You must tithe using this card".

In other words, I'll take the risk of something biting me if I miss a payment, or run afoul; but otheriwse count on common sense and law? to keep me safe. Plus I'm too busy posting and reading and working and eating to read all these CC terms.

On a related note, among the premium cards (or pick from my sig to personalize it for me), are there any significant differences in terms of T&C or benefits (i.e. protections, liability, warranty), or have al the majors caught up and pretty much take care of us the same?

thanks, I know this is a compound thread now, but I can derail my own, yes?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "anything"! The Citi Thank You program is causing some headaches at the moment, with some very powerful clauses, basically:

1) We can close your card or Thank You account for any reason

2) If your card is closed for any reason, you lose any points that have not been transferred to your Thank You account

3) If your Thank You account is closed for any reason, you may forfeit all the points in it.

And some people with high TY balances have indeed had all their cards closed and their points forfeited.

So this is an example where you have a rewards program but the T&Cs can be invoked to prevent you benefitting from any rewards you have earned. Of course, the assumption is that these clauses are only used for "good" reason (Citi would say fraud or abuse) but it does put the power with the issuer.

Now you can put anything in the T&Cs but it's not necessarily legally enforcible, but of course it can be time consuming and expensive to see if the card holder can win that argument.