topic Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI in Credit Cards

Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Jutz — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:01:36 GMT

Outright denied, that kinda sucks. (BCE, currently at $1k)

I totally understand, I was probably fringe to get approved in the first place, plus my credit acquired in the past 6 months or so has been dramatic, but the AMEX was the last thing I did, nothing has been opened or changed since. I wasn't too estactic with my $1,000 CL to begin with, but I figured the 61 Day would make it $3,000 so all would be well. I'm certainly not whining, but I am kind of surprised that I'd get denied, since nothing has changed since I first got the card. I had paid the last invoice in full, and just paid off my Gold card as well, which this month happened to be around $3k.

For those wondering, since January I've opened:

Car Loan - $18k

Mortgage - $165k

AMEX Gold - NPSL

Lowe's - $2k

Chase Freedom - $3.5k

DCU Visa - $2k

BCE - $1k

So again, I get it. Just lame.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

09Lexie — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:03:57 GMT

Sorry for the denial. When they last SPd you,what was your util?

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Jutz — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:05:58 GMT

Just realized that the Gold reporting at $3k for this month would have put me at around 25% UTIL. I paid it off to zero and make sure the balance cleared to zero on the website first, but is there a chance the internal system looked at the balances from my report and not their own balances on file? I never even thought that might be an issue, but that seems like a stupid thing to overlook now that I think about it...

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Jutz — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:07:49 GMT

@09Lexie wrote:
Sorry for the denial. When they last SPd you,what was your util?

I forgot AMEX keeps a SP on file from an indeterminate about of time ago. If they used one from the past week, it would have had my UTIL at around 20-25% as I said in my above post, as opposed to the 5-7% I normally keep. I may have totally messed that up thinking that balances with AMEX would automatically update in their system.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

tray — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:09:49 GMT

My deep regrets to you also, hopefully when you get the denial letter you can find out where Amex stands with why your cli request was denied and work on that and you will be able to try for a cli again, Good Luck........ My last cli was denied also with Amex

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

09Lexie — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:14:48 GMT

Always, always initiate your CLI after you've double checked the last sp and you are within an acceptable util. Try again in 90 days, keep an eye on your util.

By the way... Your Gold card doesn't count towards your util. I would have made my pyt first before the CLI.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Jutz — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:18:41 GMT

My Gold card doesn't count towards UTIL on what model? The AMEX internal scoring? It counts as UTIL in several models in different ways, does it not?

Also, you would have made your payment do you mean? Because I had definitely made my payment, both cards were paid to zero and cleared prior to CLI request.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Walt_K — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:20:54 GMT

@Jutz wrote:
My Gold card doesn't count towards UTIL on what model? The AMEX internal scoring? It counts as UTIL in several models in different ways, does it not?

Also, you would have made your payment do you mean? Because I had definitely made my payment, both cards were paid to zero and cleared prior to CLI request.

Open lines like Amex charge cards don't count for utilization purposes except on TU98.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

09Lexie — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:23:17 GMT

Sorry, didn't see the part where you paid your bal. Charge cards do not count towards your util only rev CL's

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Jutz — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:26:15 GMT

Well that's reassuring. I'm sure it was just my average at best scores, mixed with a TON of activity in the past year. I'll accept it. Kinda hard to use it as an everyday card for rewards with only $1k though. With Freedom hitting the 4th quarter and no more gas 5%, this was going to replace it.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Revelate — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:26:51 GMT

@09Lexie wrote:
Sorry, didn't see the part where you paid your bal. Charge cards do not count towards your util only rev CL's

Under FICO '04 / '08 this is correct; Walt is also right that the earlier '98 version it is counted. The newer models exclude anything that is listed with a 1 month term is my understanding of it.

A balance on a charge card though does get counted in the "number of revolving tradelines with balances" metric so it's worth still keeping track of if trying to maximize one's FICO for a given period.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

FinStar — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:27:23 GMT

@Walt_K wrote:
@Jutz wrote:
My Gold card doesn't count towards UTIL on what model? The AMEX internal scoring? It counts as UTIL in several models in different ways, does it not?

Also, you would have made your payment do you mean? Because I had definitely made my payment, both cards were paid to zero and cleared prior to CLI request.
Open lines like Amex charge cards don't count for utilization purposes except on TU98.

And what Lexie mentioned as well.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Jutz — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:28:37 GMT

Thanks Revelate, that makes sense. I would have had 3 cards post with balances in that case. Gold, Freedom, Lowe's. Out of 9.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Revelate — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:30:26 GMT

@Jutz wrote:
Well that's reassuring. I'm sure it was just my average at best scores, mixed with a TON of activity in the past year. I'll accept it. Kinda hard to use it as an everyday card for rewards with only $1k though. With Freedom hitting the 4th quarter and no more gas 5%, this was going to replace it.

I was going to ask how much you'd run through the the card; I run the majority of my spending (other than things I'd rather not have Amex know about in their internal models) through my BCP, though my usual everyday expenses only total up to around $800ish each month anyway I did push the boundaries a little bit to max out high balance one month.

Taking my shot tomoorrow, have to see how they like my spending pattern I guess as my FICO scores are pretty similar to yours, nominally higher but not by much.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

mongstradamus — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:37:49 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@Jutz wrote:
Well that's reassuring. I'm sure it was just my average at best scores, mixed with a TON of activity in the past year. I'll accept it. Kinda hard to use it as an everyday card for rewards with only $1k though. With Freedom hitting the 4th quarter and no more gas 5%, this was going to replace it.
I was going to ask how much you'd run through the the card; I run the majority of my spending (other than things I'd rather not have Amex know about in their internal models) through my BCP, though my usual everyday expenses only total up to around $800ish each month anyway I did push the boundaries a little bit to max out high balance one month.

Taking my shot tomoorrow, have to see how they like my spending pattern I guess as my FICO scores are pretty similar to yours, nominally higher but not by much.

Does amex not like you getting close to CL per month even if you pay multiple times an month to keep utilization under 30 %?

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Revelate — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:49:56 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@Jutz wrote:
Well that's reassuring. I'm sure it was just my average at best scores, mixed with a TON of activity in the past year. I'll accept it. Kinda hard to use it as an everyday card for rewards with only $1k though. With Freedom hitting the 4th quarter and no more gas 5%, this was going to replace it.
I was going to ask how much you'd run through the the card; I run the majority of my spending (other than things I'd rather not have Amex know about in their internal models) through my BCP, though my usual everyday expenses only total up to around $800ish each month anyway I did push the boundaries a little bit to max out high balance one month.

Taking my shot tomoorrow, have to see how they like my spending pattern I guess as my FICO scores are pretty similar to yours, nominally higher but not by much.

Does amex not like you getting close to CL per month even if you pay multiple times an month to keep utilization under 30 %?

I don't think Amex cares honestly; anecdotally they do seem to like big lump sum payments: when trying to curry favor with Amex (like I'm doing) I'd never make multiple payments. If nothing else, it goes completely against their historical charge card paradigm.

There's also a lot of sophisticated data which they can easily get from from the transaction records and also the Experian SP's they do. Sad is it somewhat is, I'm fairly confident Amex knows me better than all but my closest associates, and all of that potentially goes into their analytics and risk assessments.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

mongstradamus — Tue, 01 Oct 2013 23:52:24 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@Jutz wrote:
Well that's reassuring. I'm sure it was just my average at best scores, mixed with a TON of activity in the past year. I'll accept it. Kinda hard to use it as an everyday card for rewards with only $1k though. With Freedom hitting the 4th quarter and no more gas 5%, this was going to replace it.
I was going to ask how much you'd run through the the card; I run the majority of my spending (other than things I'd rather not have Amex know about in their internal models) through my BCP, though my usual everyday expenses only total up to around $800ish each month anyway I did push the boundaries a little bit to max out high balance one month.

Taking my shot tomoorrow, have to see how they like my spending pattern I guess as my FICO scores are pretty similar to yours, nominally higher but not by much.

Does amex not like you getting close to CL per month even if you pay multiple times an month to keep utilization under 30 %?
I don't think Amex cares honestly; anecdotally they do seem to like big lump sum payments: when trying to curry favor with Amex (like I'm doing) I'd never make multiple payments. If nothing else, it goes completely against their historical charge card paradigm.

There's also a lot of sophisticated data which they can easily get from from the transaction records and also the Experian SP's they do. Sad is it somewhat is, I'm fairly confident Amex knows me better than all but my closest associates, and all of that potentially goes into their analytics and risk assessments.

To understand this more clearly if you pay three times for 200 each time in an month, its basically the same as paying once for 600? I am trying to understand what i should what I should do in two to three months when my cli comes up.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Revelate — Wed, 02 Oct 2013 00:01:35 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:

Does amex not like you getting close to CL per month even if you pay multiple times an month to keep utilization under 30 %?
I don't think Amex cares honestly; anecdotally they do seem to like big lump sum payments: when trying to curry favor with Amex (like I'm doing) I'd never make multiple payments. If nothing else, it goes completely against their historical charge card paradigm.
There's also a lot of sophisticated data which they can easily get from from the transaction records and also the Experian SP's they do. Sad is it somewhat is, I'm fairly confident Amex knows me better than all but my closest associates, and all of that potentially goes into their analytics and risk assessments.
To understand this more clearly if you pay three times for 200 each time in an month, its basically the same as paying once for 600? I am trying to understand what i should what I should do in two to three months when my cli comes up.

Anecdotally it's been found better to make 1 lump sum payment for 600 than 3 for 200 in your scenario.

I don't know where the idea of paying multiple times during a given month came about unless you've overruning your limits: that is not normal consumer behavior. Show a bureaucrat what they expect to see, I would suggest underwriting is similar: anything out of the ordinary can trigger a closer review. I'd rather underwriting or servicing be completely bored with my application and simply stamp it for approval .

Myself, I've never found running up to a limit to be a problem personally and I've done that with every single one of my cards; however, I'm pretty consistent in my spending behavior, and with Amex historically being a charge card company, they expect large month balances and then large month payments in full. That's one thing which may take decades to change, and not sure it will as Amex has been doing very well with their risk management.

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

swpopham — Wed, 02 Oct 2013 00:04:03 GMT

Amex calculates off of your average payment amount. In my case my average payment is around 7k but if i paid it 3 times a month that would put my average payment at 2300. I dont know how it factors but we have been led to believe they would be rather paid once a month

Re: Well shoot, denied AMEX 61 Day CLI

Jutz — Wed, 02 Oct 2013 01:08:12 GMT

Yeah I don't really mess around with AMEX when it comes to payment tricks. My charge is on auto pay and has been since I picked it up around January. Most I've done on the BCE was PIF before statement cut to report $0 for my CLI request.