topic Re: Best points system for flights in Credit Cards

Best points system for flights

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 23:17:46 GMT

Dear All

Lately both my dad and I have been disapointed in the airlines' miles systems. Availability is horrible. Black out dates. Ridiculous fees in addition to the miles we have to use. So We both decided to eliminate the United/AA (and in my case also Delta - which is the worst as they charge ridiculous amounts of miles on most flights are charge ~$400-500 if the flight does not initiate in the US... might as well just buy the ticket...) credit cards from our lives.

My father has been a relatively happy FlexPerks user now. Recenly he managed to buy round trip tickets from Europe to Thailand for 50k points (each) without much trouble with availability. But this card's foreign transaction fees are a killer (especially since he spends quite a bit of time in Europe and in Asia) and I know this card is not very favorable in the reviews.

So what should we swing for? What is a better option. We are in this for the long run so the annual fee shouldn't be too high (CSP is a hard sell because of this). Venture looks a little better despite the low sign up benefits, but as I said we are in it for the long run.

But really, the most important issue is availability. Will we find flights for a reasonable amout of points? If we go $2 per pt there was no way we could have bought those Europe to Thailand flights. Also other booking sites might restrict, say all flights have to initiate in the US. These would all disqualify in our case. The issue here is that you will never really know how good flight availability is, how good the booking system is util you sign up. So I am hoping to get some info about Your experiences. Which card (or cards) should I advise my dad to sign up for?

In sum. Flight availability, flexibility with routes (can start from anywhere in the world), low fees and preferably no FTF is what we want. Annual fees should be worth it in relation to the benefits. $50 of Flexperks, no issues. $59 of Venture, still OK. $95 of CSP I am starting to think might be too much. But open for arguments otherwise. Open to all other options as well.

What are our best options? Thanks.

Re: Best points system for flights

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 23:33:03 GMT

Id go with the Venture.... or Barclays Arrival which is another 2% card with massive sign up bonus and FTF

Re: Best points system for flights

red259 — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 23:38:05 GMT

Venture card is basically a cash back card for travel purchases. Its not a miles card where you put miles directly into an airline program to redeem. I would think the venture is better than flexperks. If you want actual miles you can put into airline programs than the CSP is a much better option. AF is waived the first year. There is another thread re: airline cards form today and I would recommend reading through that as the advice would be relevant to you as well.

Re: Best points system for flights

red259 — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 23:43:12 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Id go with the Venture.... or Barclays Arrival which is another 2% card with massive sign up bonus and FTF

The two cards are similar. My understanding is that if you are going to spend over 15k on the card over the course of a year the Barclays is worth getting even though it has a higher fee. Otherwise the Venture is better. It takes 15k of spend to get a large enough redemption bonus to negate the extra $30 in the annual fee.

Re: Best points system for flights

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 23:46:10 GMT

Thanks for the heads up on the other thread. I managed to miss it.

I actually do not want to put my points towards miles. The airlines are sucking more and more by the month. But I am also not interested in point to cash reimbursements.as , in my experience, flights cost more in USD than points/miles. Best would be a system with its own booking place where i could book for points with good availability. Availability is key so anyone has comparative knowledge on this front, it is very welcomed. As far as i understand, Flexperks has this. But could be wrong.

Also, i am open to arguments as to what is the best system. (Go with this or that is not as helpful) and sign up bonus is not as essential as long term benefits with use.

Thanks again for being awesome!! (Super helpful as always.)

Re: Best points system for flights

ezdoesit — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 00:57:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for the heads up on the other thread. I managed to miss it.

I actually do not want to put my points towards miles. The airlines are sucking more and more by the month. But I am also not interested in point to cash reimbursements.as , in my experience, flights cost more in USD than points/miles. Best would be a system with its own booking place where i could book for points with good availability. Availability is key so anyone has comparative knowledge on this front, it is very welcomed. As far as i understand, Flexperks has this. But could be wrong.

Also, i am open to arguments as to what is the best system. (Go with this or that is not as helpful) and sign up bonus is not as essential as long term benefits with use.

Thanks again for being awesome!! (Super helpful as always.)

There are really only two real players for airline miles. Chase CSP. Amex SPG or PRG ( SPG is better than the PRG ).

What airlines do you fly most? The best of these cards are very subjective and a lot of variable go into it. If your father goes to Europe why are you worried about a $95AF because I am sure he would put enough of the card to justifly the AF.

IMO I think the SPG is a better all around card.

Re: Best points system for flights

CreditScholar — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 02:22:29 GMT

@ezdoesit wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for the heads up on the other thread. I managed to miss it.

I actually do not want to put my points towards miles. The airlines are sucking more and more by the month. But I am also not interested in point to cash reimbursements.as , in my experience, flights cost more in USD than points/miles. Best would be a system with its own booking place where i could book for points with good availability. Availability is key so anyone has comparative knowledge on this front, it is very welcomed. As far as i understand, Flexperks has this. But could be wrong.

Also, i am open to arguments as to what is the best system. (Go with this or that is not as helpful) and sign up bonus is not as essential as long term benefits with use.

Thanks again for being awesome!! (Super helpful as always.)
There are really only two real players for airline miles. Chase CSP. Amex SPG or PRG ( SPG is better than the PRG ).

What airlines do you fly most? The best of these cards are very subjective and a lot of variable go into it. If your father goes to Europe why are you worried about a $95AF because I am sure he would put enough of the card to justifly the AF.

IMO I think the SPG is a better all around card.

+1. I've never had availability issues with UA (or US), so part of the problem here is that your father should educate himself a bit more about how to search for flight availability. If you just do blind start-to-end desintation searches on the website, you won't find nearly as much as what's really available.

Re: Best points system for flights

Walt_K — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 04:27:25 GMT

http://boardingarea.com/bloggers/ (especially like view from the wing, frequent miler, one mile at a time)

millionmilesecrets.com

thepointsguy.com

frugaltravelguy.com

It's a trade off. You either opt for a fixed value program like Venture where there are no blackouts and points are always worth $0.01, or you leverage the value of airline miles where there are capacity controls but you can get outsized value. In the latter, you need to be a little more flexible with your dates of travel, understand how to use alliance partners, etc. Happy reading.

Re: Best points system for flights

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 04:45:56 GMT

@ezdoesit wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for the heads up on the other thread. I managed to miss it.

I actually do not want to put my points towards miles. The airlines are sucking more and more by the month. But I am also not interested in point to cash reimbursements.as , in my experience, flights cost more in USD than points/miles. Best would be a system with its own booking place where i could book for points with good availability. Availability is key so anyone has comparative knowledge on this front, it is very welcomed. As far as i understand, Flexperks has this. But could be wrong.

Also, i am open to arguments as to what is the best system. (Go with this or that is not as helpful) and sign up bonus is not as essential as long term benefits with use.

Thanks again for being awesome!! (Super helpful as always.)
There are really only two real players for airline miles. Chase CSP. Amex SPG or PRG ( SPG is better than the PRG ).

What airlines do you fly most? The best of these cards are very subjective and a lot of variable go into it. If your father goes to Europe why are you worried about a $95AF because I am sure he would put enough of the card to justifly the AF.

IMO I think the SPG is a better all around card.

I don't think the spg or prg is the right card for op. Op said no high annual fee cards, and prg is 175. plus both cards has a foreign transaction fee. So I personally think the chase csp would fit better with no ftf and 2 points per dollar on travel n dining, if using UR mall and book through hotels.com you will get 7 poinnts per dollar spent. But maybe also keep the bofa travel rewards in mind? no af, no ftf, 1.5 pts per dollar speng

Re: Best points system for flights

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 05:12:40 GMT

There are really only two real players for airline miles. Chase CSP. Amex SPG or PRG ( SPG is better than the PRG ).

IMO I think the SPG is a better all around card.

I'm glad you mentioned this. I have become an Amex fan and keep seeing references to SPG on the forum, but I don't understand their reward and redemption structure. Do you mind explaning what you like about the SPG? (FYI - I have a PRG that I may or may not renew when the AF hits and a Delta Gold that I will probably eventually PC to another card.)

Re: Best points system for flights

Walt_K — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 05:16:35 GMT

SPG is good for starwood hotel redemptions, but it also transfers to many different airline partners. When transferring to airlines, 20K starpoints become 25K airline miles. It's great that there are so many more direct airline partners, but it's a little overstated to value that over PRG. When you take alliances into account, it's pretty much the same coverage, and the big downside to SPG is that the points to do not transfer instantaneously while MR points do transfer over in real time. Still, having that many different airline partners does serve as an insurance against devaluation for the SPG program.

Re: Best points system for flights

red259 — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 05:21:13 GMT

@Walt_K wrote:
SPG is good for starwood hotel redemptions, but it also transfers to many different airline partners. When transferring to airlines, 20K starpoints become 25K airline miles. It's great that there are so many more direct airline partners, but it's a little overstated to value that over PRG. When you take alliances into account, it's pretty much the same coverage, and the big downside to SPG is that the points to do not transfer instantaneously while MR points do transfer over in real time. Still, having that many different airline partners does serve as an insurance against devaluation for the SPG program.

OP mentioned having issues with foreign fees and Amex unfortunatly has these.

Re: Best points system for flights

Walt_K — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 05:28:51 GMT

@red259 wrote:
@Walt_K wrote:
SPG is good for starwood hotel redemptions, but it also transfers to many different airline partners. When transferring to airlines, 20K starpoints become 25K airline miles. It's great that there are so many more direct airline partners, but it's a little overstated to value that over PRG. When you take alliances into account, it's pretty much the same coverage, and the big downside to SPG is that the points to do not transfer instantaneously while MR points do transfer over in real time. Still, having that many different airline partners does serve as an insurance against devaluation for the SPG program.
OP mentioned having issues with foreign fees and Amex unfortunatly has these.

Agreed. Wasn't paying attention and was responding to previous poster that I assumed was the OP.

Re: Best points system for flights

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 06:12:48 GMT

Thanks for all the info. Personally, i already made the decision to swap my Delta card for SPG but hesitant to do so now when you get extra goodies in the one month summer special. (I don't suppose anyone knows how to get those extra 5k points now). FTF is an issue for me as well, but I don't want to pay for,the platinum card and I do want to stay with Amex. AF is annoying but still below what I consider hurting. But it is not right for my dad.

The person who said that I need to educate myself on where and how to book flights (even beyond blind flight searches) is dead on. Honestly, I did not even try these program websites (CSP and Venture) because I assumed you have to be a member to make a search. Am I assuming wrong?

Re: Best points system for flights

CreditScholar — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 06:21:24 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for all the info. Personally, i already made the decision to swap my Delta card for SPG but hesitant to do so now when you get extra goodies in the one month summer special. (I don't suppose anyone knows how to get those extra 5k points now). FTF is an issue for me as well, but I don't want to pay for,the platinum card and I do want to stay with Amex. AF is annoying but still below what I consider hurting. But it is not right for my dad.

The person who said that I need to educate myself on where and how to book flights (even beyond blind flight searches) is dead on. Honestly, I did not even try these program websites (CSP and Venture) because I assumed you have to be a member to make a search. Am I assuming wrong?

Each airline alliance has different websites that you can use in order to find flight avability. For example if you're looking for *A flights, UA's website is actually decent (mostly because it took CO's platform during the merger). AC's website is also decent. For OW, you may want to look on Qantas's site, etc.

You also should familiarize yourself with different flight routes, and where major regional hubs are. For example if I'm trying to fly from SFO-BKK and there is no direct flight available, I might try for SFO-NRT-BKK or SFO-ICN-BKK instead. Yes it might be a bit longer than a direct flight, but availability often greatly increases when you search leg by leg.

Certain programs require you to be a member with a certain number of miles in your account to allow you to search. ANA is a prime example for this. Others will allow you to search regardless of whether you have miles in your account with them or not.

Re: Best points system for flights

red259 — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 06:34:29 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for all the info. Personally, i already made the decision to swap my Delta card for SPG but hesitant to do so now when you get extra goodies in the one month summer special. (I don't suppose anyone knows how to get those extra 5k points now). FTF is an issue for me as well, but I don't want to pay for,the platinum card and I do want to stay with Amex. AF is annoying but still below what I consider hurting. But it is not right for my dad.

The person who said that I need to educate myself on where and how to book flights (even beyond blind flight searches) is dead on. Honestly, I did not even try these program websites (CSP and Venture) because I assumed you have to be a member to make a search. Am I assuming wrong?

Are you talking about the reward malls? You don't need to book through the capitalone portal to be able to use your points. You can book through any website. You can get extra UR points by booking through the UR portal, but the best way to get max value out of UR points is to transfer the miles into an airline loyalty program when you need them. The transfer is very quick so you can do it when your ready to book the award. If your willing to do the research you will find better redemptions by putting the points into airline programs and then redeeming than you will by using a card like venture or barclays. Amex spg is a decent card but can be tough to earn points on and the foreign fee is annoying. CSP with the Freedom is a potent combo (assuming you want to use airlines in the star alliance) and is a bit easier to build up points with. If you want to stay with Amex then spg is a good way to go. The higher AF Amex cards can be useful to people who fly somewhat often and the AF pays for itself if you use all the benefits enough. If your only taking a few flights then your right it may not be worth it to pay the higher AF.

Re: Best points system for flights

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 06:35:26 GMT

Started digging. So it looks like the Barclay Arrival card and the Venture are book anywhere and get reimbursed set ups. So I will not find a booking website for them.

CSP has its own website and it does not let me in to do a search without getting the card (even having other Chase products and an account for the page).

It would have been fun to compare with Flexperks.

Re: Best points system for flights

red259 — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 06:56:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Started digging. So it looks like the Barclay Arrival card and the Venture are book anywhere and get reimbursed set ups. So I will not find a booking website for them.

CSP has its own website and it does not let me in to do a search without getting the card (even having other Chase products and an account for the page).

It would have been fun to compare with Flexperks.

Airline tickets on the UR portal cost pretty much the same as you would find on Kayak. If you have the CSP and book through the portal you get a 20% discount. Points are valued at .01 so you need 100 points for every $1 of the cost. 20,000 points is worth $200. To get a better redemption rate than that you will have to transfer the miles into whatever airline program you wish to use and then redeem the rewards

Re: Best points system for flights

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 07:40:59 GMT

Yeah, the transfer into airlines business I want to stay away from. My dad and I both have several overseas free tickets worth of miles on AA, United and Delta. And we feel we are getting hosed every time we want to redeem. Either the fee is ridiculous or it feels we are being charged extra miles. Reasonable miles rates are simply not available almost ever.

This is where my dad was impressed with Flexperks. Had 100k (mainly from spending) and was able to easily convert to two flights from Europe to Thailand. If he paid for it cash, these flights would have been 1.5k USD each at minimum so would have eaten up way too much Venture/Arrival points if I we bought outright. With miles that would have been 80-100k each if even available from any airline plus a good chunk of fees ($100-200). On Delta it would have been an extra $350ish fee for your flight not starting in the US. Simply speaking, I am looking for a better deal. Flexperks we had luck with so I am exploring similar programs out there. (Prefer no FTF)

In the past we used to both use miles a lot with great results. And then the programs progressively started sucking. United I still have decent luck with, but that's it. (For this reason, I still prefer to fly Star Alliance everywhere, but price and flight times/convenience of distance and trasfers almost always trumps choice of carrier for us.)

Hence the looking for a more flexible system. But without specific info on redemption, I am learning it is impossible to know. Probably should just go with CSP as it beat everyone else in light of the above. But it is expensive. If not happy, I can always cancel before the first year.

Re: Best points system for flights

Walt_K — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 13:46:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Yeah, the transfer into airlines business I want to stay away from. My dad and I both have several overseas free tickets worth of miles on AA, United and Delta. And we feel we are getting hosed every time we want to redeem. Either the fee is ridiculous or it feels we are being charged extra miles. Reasonable miles rates are simply not available almost ever.

This is where my dad was impressed with Flexperks. Had 100k (mainly from spending) and was able to easily convert to two flights from Europe to Thailand. If he paid for it cash, these flights would have been 1.5k USD each at minimum so would have eaten up way too much Venture/Arrival points if I we bought outright. With miles that would have been 80-100k each if even available from any airline plus a good chunk of fees ($100-200). On Delta it would have been an extra $350ish fee for your flight not starting in the US. Simply speaking, I am looking for a better deal. Flexperks we had luck with so I am exploring similar programs out there. (Prefer no FTF)

In the past we used to both use miles a lot with great results. And then the programs progressively started sucking. United I still have decent luck with, but that's it. (For this reason, I still prefer to fly Star Alliance everywhere, but price and flight times/convenience of distance and trasfers almost always trumps choice of carrier for us.)

Hence the looking for a more flexible system. But without specific info on redemption, I am learning it is impossible to know. Probably should just go with CSP as it beat everyone else in light of the above. But it is expensive. If not happy, I can always cancel before the first year.

With everything you are saying, I wouldn't go CSP. It very much sounds like you want a straight 2% cash back card or something very similar like Barclay Arrival or CapOne venture. There's no blackout dates with those cards because you're paying with cash or a point that is a cash equivalent. But they are fixed value. It will take a lot of spend to earn an expensive ticket.

The other option is to use airline miles, but it sounds like you don't want to go that route because it has been difficult to redeem your miles. That can be true, but if you invest some time to learn how the various alliances work and how to best search inventory, miles can get you a lot more value especially if you would like to fly internationally in a premium cabin. A middle ground approach is to use a travel agent to book your awards. There are multiple sites out there that will find itineraries for you using your airline miles. You're going to pay a fee, but they know the ins and outs of the alliances, how to find low-level inventory, how to take maximum advantage of routing rules, stopovers, open jaws, etc. Still, if all of that sounds like a pain, just stick with cash back cards.