topic Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID in Credit Cards

AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 01:51:22 GMT

Ok I know theres a debate weather a merchant can ask for ID or not so I complained to American Express and they replied:

Hi XXXX.Thx for tweeting.This is the merchants company policy.Pls understand we do not dictate policies to merchants.This

practice is in your best interest as it prevents fraud.In many cases,identity theft is prevented due to this practice.Enjoy

your meal. ^Beth

I complained about a local restaurant having hand written signs that its company policy to require ID on CC

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 02:09:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Ok I know theres a debate weather a merchant can ask for ID or not so I complained to American Express and they replied:

Hi XXXX.Thx for tweeting.This is the merchants company policy.Pls understand we do not dictate policies to merchants.This
practice is in your best interest as it prevents fraud.In many cases,identity theft is prevented due to this practice.Enjoy
your meal. ^Beth

I complained about a local restaurant having hand written signs that its company policy to require ID on CC

Why couldn't a merchant be able to ask for ID?

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 02:11:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Ok I know theres a debate weather a merchant can ask for ID or not so I complained to American Express and they replied:

Hi XXXX.Thx for tweeting.This is the merchants company policy.Pls understand we do not dictate policies to merchants.This
practice is in your best interest as it prevents fraud.In many cases,identity theft is prevented due to this practice.Enjoy
your meal. ^Beth

I complained about a local restaurant having hand written signs that its company policy to require ID on CC
Why couldn't a merchant be able to ask for ID?

Because there has been a belief that the Visa/MC acceptance rules at least forbid that more or less explicitly, unless the purchase type (alcohol etc) require proof of age. The idea from the issuers viewpoint it to make using the card no more burdensome than using cash.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 02:15:27 GMT

From a recent article: http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/can-retailers-ask-id-with-credit_card-1282.php

All the networks allow a merchant to ask for identification.

MasterCard and Visa, however, explicitly prohibit retailers from requiring an ID to accept a properly signed card. "They can ask for that ID, but you can refuse to show the ID and they still must accept the card," says Paul Stephens, director of policy and advocacy at the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a nonprofit that advocates for consumer privacy rights.

On the other hand, Visa and MasterCard rules prohibit the acceptance of unsigned cards. If you present one, the merchant must ask you to sign the card and supply an ID. Visa guidelines specify that it must be an official government ID.

Discover's policies are more intrusive. They state that a store employee who has doubts about the validity of a card should "request and review additional identification" from the customer. And for an unsigned card, the company requires two pieces of identification, including one government-issued photo ID.

American Express is more vague. It requires merchants to "verify that the customer is the card member," but its rules make no direct mention of requiring an ID.

"American Express doesn't really have a policy on it," says Linda Sherry, director of national priorities for Consumer Action. "If the merchant wants to ask for an ID, that's fine."

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

mxp114 — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 02:16:07 GMT

Afaik American Express and Discover do not preclude merchants asking for ID as a condition of the sale whereas Visa and MasterCard do. However AmEx requires all accepted payment cards be treated equally and since Visa/MC disallow making ID a condition of the sale, a merchant that accepts all three or four cannot condition ID. Visa and MasterCard allow asking but do not allow a merchant to refuse the transaction when a valid signed card is properly presented for payment.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 02:18:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Ok I know theres a debate weather a merchant can ask for ID or not so I complained to American Express and they replied:

Hi XXXX.Thx for tweeting.This is the merchants company policy.Pls understand we do not dictate policies to merchants.This
practice is in your best interest as it prevents fraud.In many cases,identity theft is prevented due to this practice.Enjoy
your meal. ^Beth

I complained about a local restaurant having hand written signs that its company policy to require ID on CC
Why couldn't a merchant be able to ask for ID?
Because there has been a belief that the Visa/MC acceptance rules at least forbid that more or less explicitly, unless the purchase type (alcohol etc) require proof of age. The idea from the issuers viewpoint it to make using the card no more burdensome than using cash.

There's a difference between asking for ID and denying a sale if the consumer refuses to show ID. Also, MC requires that merchants ask for ID and make the consumer sign the card (if it is unsigned) before payment can be accepted, but nobody seems to care that 99% of merchants violate that rule too.

Edit: You beat me to it haha.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 02:29:16 GMT

thanks lurker very good article

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 02:38:28 GMT

most merchants are guilty of not following these rules, but there's really nothing much that can be done about it either.

Try buying a 5k TV at best buy and refuse to provide any form of ID for example....

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 02:53:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
most merchants are guilty of not following these rules, but there's really nothing much that can be done about it either.
Try buying a 5k TV at best buy and refuse to provide any form of ID for example....

And CVS will scan your driver's license (or presumably other state id) when you buy $1000 or more of VR or GC. This is to implement their limit of not more than $5K per day across all CVS. Haven't seen complaints that this is not allowed by credit card rules, presumably because people are just happy to find a CVS with them in stock and payable by credit card!

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

grinlikechelsea — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 03:04:13 GMT

I work in a pharmacy, so I check IDs before the customer even pays because we have to verify that they are the patient who is picking up the meds, enter them into the pseudoepherine database, or if the meds are controlled (schedule ll/lll). But in terms of checking ID for payment, exactly what is the ramification for a company breaking the merchant agreement? I don't recall my employer ever briefing us about a specific guideline to follow; it was always left up to us if a card was presented and they didn't swipe it on the terminal (for example, the card had to be manually entered).

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 03:15:04 GMT

@grinlikechelsea wrote:
I work in a pharmacy, so I check IDs before the customer even pays because we have to verify that they are the patient who is picking up the meds, enter them into the pseudoepherine database, or if the meds are controlled (schedule ll/lll). But in terms of checking ID for payment, exactly what is the ramification for a company breaking the merchant agreement? I don't recall my employer ever briefing us about a specific guideline to follow; it was always left up to us if a card was presented and they didn't swipe it on the terminal (for example, the card had to be manually entered).

In theory, the issuer has the option of stopping the company taking the card, Presumably the idea is that the threat should be sufficient to move them into compliance, because it is hard to see when an issuer would actually do this, potentially losing revenue. Maybe if enough card holders had complained.

But I don't think it is viable these days (especially with competing networks), so enforcement may be lax to the point of being non-existent, hence enharu's point that many merchants don't comply, and there are no consequences.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

phonic — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 03:26:12 GMT

This might just be an urban legend, but....

If I remember correctly, I once read something about why they instituted this 'no ID' policy. A long time ago, Visa/MC did require ID to be shown, or at least allowed it and recommended it for merchant protection. Apparently, someone with a stolen ID tried to buy something once, was asked for ID, something happened and the merchant's employee was attacked/shot/etc. They, or their family if they died (I don't remember offhand) sued Visa/MC because it was their policy that caused the injury/death. As a result, and realizing the huge liability, they changed their policy and said ID could not be asked for.

Again, not sure if this is true or not, but it certainly sounds plausible.

In any case, as it was stated earlier, Amex simply requires it to be treated equally. It's Visa/MC that have (or had, I heard that this was or is changing) the no-ID rule. But this enforced almost as much as the "can't charge more than cash" rule that many merchants blatantly ignore. Merchants know that they aren't going to get in trouble, so they just do whatever they want to.

So in the end, if you don't like the merchant's policy, the only way to respond is to not do business with them.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 03:30:06 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@grinlikechelsea wrote:
I work in a pharmacy, so I check IDs before the customer even pays because we have to verify that they are the patient who is picking up the meds, enter them into the pseudoepherine database, or if the meds are controlled (schedule ll/lll). But in terms of checking ID for payment, exactly what is the ramification for a company breaking the merchant agreement? I don't recall my employer ever briefing us about a specific guideline to follow; it was always left up to us if a card was presented and they didn't swipe it on the terminal (for example, the card had to be manually entered).
In theory, the issuer has the option of stopping the company taking the card, Presumably the idea is that the threat should be sufficient to move them into compliance, because it is hard to see when an issuer would actually do this, potentially losing revenue. Maybe if enough card holders had complained.

But I don't think it is viable these days (especially with competing networks), so enforcement may be lax to the point of being non-existent, hence enharu's point that many merchants don't comply, and there are no consequences.

+1.

It all depends as well.
if you are filing a complaint against a small mom-and-pop store, then your complaint will probably get somewhere, sincer the issuer have more "power" in their business relationship.

However, if your trying to file a complaint against a national retailer, both sides will probably (indirectly) tell you to go kick rocks or fly a kite.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

grinlikechelsea — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 03:37:38 GMT

Thanks for your responses guys. In most cases, I've already seen their ID anyways, so I know its them or they just use the terminal. I just find it odd that I have never been told what the policy during my employment. Thank goodness for this forum.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 03:39:18 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

+1.
It all depends as well.
if you are filing a complaint against a small mom-and-pop store, then your complaint will probably get somewhere, sincer the issuer have more "power" in their business relationship.
However, if your trying to file a complaint against a national retailer, both sides will probably (indirectly) tell you to go kick rocks or fly a kite.

Yes, the example was given in FT of SCNF, French Railways. If they refuse to take your American swipe card, insisting on chip&pin, and you complain, correctly, that Visa/MC rules insist they take any valid card from that network, since they are a billion-dollar company, no way will Visa/MC say "Right, you can no longer accept our card".

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 03:43:50 GMT

@grinlikechelsea wrote:
Thanks for your responses guys. In most cases, I've already seen their ID anyways, so I know its them or they just use the terminal. I just find it odd that I have never been told what the policy during my employment. Thank goodness for this forum.

Also, you are unlikely to get complaints, most people consider it good as it helps prevent stolen cards being used etc.

So, just to show them the other side, feel free to take the card number and security code, copy name and address from the ID, and you are good to buy yourself some nice presents!

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 03:56:05 GMT

@grinlikechelsea wrote:
I work in a pharmacy, so I check IDs before the customer even pays because we have to verify that they are the patient who is picking up the meds, enter them into the pseudoepherine database, or if the meds are controlled (schedule ll/lll). But in terms of checking ID for payment, exactly what is the ramification for a company breaking the merchant agreement? I don't recall my employer ever briefing us about a specific guideline to follow; it was always left up to us if a card was presented and they didn't swipe it on the terminal (for example, the card had to be manually entered).

This is interesting to me, as I've often picked up scripts for relatives and as long as I can provide their DOB they have no issues. (I sign my own name on the pharmacy disclosure thingy though stating I don't need a consultation with the PharmD)

That all being the case, personally, I wish that people would ask me for ID when I swipe. It would make me feel a little more secure but it pretty much never happens.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

grinlikechelsea — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 04:09:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@grinlikechelsea wrote:
Thanks for your responses guys. In most cases, I've already seen their ID anyways, so I know its them or they just use the terminal. I just find it odd that I have never been told what the policy during my employment. Thank goodness for this forum.
Also, you are unlikely to get complaints, most people consider it good as it helps prevent stolen cards being used etc.

So, just to show them the other side, feel free to take the card number and security code, copy name and address from the ID, and you are good to buy yourself some nice presents!

I'd rather not have a felony, thank you

And notfancy, I work at a pharmacy in a medical office, so I don't know if it is any different than retail pharmacy, but that is what the system requires to proceed. My theory is that due to the kinds of prescriptions we fill (Norco, Actiq, Percocet, etc.) that its good to have more verification in case of a DEA audit.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

mxp114 — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 04:14:03 GMT

About the issue of security, I always laugh about this because cashiers aren't trained to determine the validity of an ID being presented. Each jurisdiction has various security features, and they don't always even touch the card. Just briefly look at it via those ID windows in a wallet, for all they know it's a printed sheet of paper hidden under that clear window or another type of fake. Not to mention the fact that checking ID isn't part of the chargeback process. Ultimately demanding ID as a condition of the sale and imposing minimums are ways to suppress card usage so consumers are so inconvenienced they instead use cash, which is what most merchants want anyway.

Re: AmExpress says its ok to ask for ID

Anonymous — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 04:15:28 GMT

@grinlikechelsea wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@grinlikechelsea wrote:
Thanks for your responses guys. In most cases, I've already seen their ID anyways, so I know its them or they just use the terminal. I just find it odd that I have never been told what the policy during my employment. Thank goodness for this forum.
Also, you are unlikely to get complaints, most people consider it good as it helps prevent stolen cards being used etc.

So, just to show them the other side, feel free to take the card number and security code, copy name and address from the ID, and you are good to buy yourself some nice presents!
I'd rather not have a felony, thank you

And notfancy, I work at a pharmacy in a medical office, so I don't know if it is any different than retail pharmacy, but that is what the system requires to proceed. My theory is that due to the kinds of prescriptions we fill (Norco, Actiq, Percocet, etc.) that its good to have more verification in case of a DEA audit.

Ah gotcha. I worked as a tech years ago, but I don't recall any law stating that I HAD to give a script to the person that it belonged to, even narcotics. (which is kind of odd due to HIPAA but I can see how some people might not be able to pick up their own scripts) That being said, HIPAA is a funny thing so obviously you have to be careful especially I'm assuming in a medical facility vs a retail establishment. I can absolutely see your points though.

I know I had to take ID and I've had to give it when buying sudafed and I never had an issue with that.