topic Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards? in Credit Cards

Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:14:54 GMT

This may be a dumb question - but do most of you have multiple cards that carry AFs?

I use BCE for everything I possibly can, and was going to get it converted to BCP in May when my 12 months is up. I also just got approved for the SW Visa with a $99 AF which I will use whenever the merchant doesn't accept AMEX.

I feel like I can justify the two AFs (considering the annual bonus on SW is 6k points, equilavent for about $105 - which mitigates the AF) but wanted to know if the rest of you carry AF cards?

Thank you!

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

red259 — Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:59:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
This may be a dumb question - but do most of you have multiple cards that carry AFs?

I use BCE for everything I possibly can, and was going to get it converted to BCP in May when my 12 months is up. I also just got approved for the SW Visa with a $99 AF which I will use whenever the merchant doesn't accept AMEX.

I feel like I can justify the two AFs (considering the annual bonus on SW is 6k points, equilavent for about $105 - which mitigates the AF) but wanted to know if the rest of you carry AF cards?

Thank you!

All my AF cards with the exception of one are currently in the first year. I will probably end up with 3 AF cards going forward where I would pay the AF (ink plus, BCP, SPG), but this is subject to how they perform over the first year. It all depends on whether or not the benefits/rewards of the card justify the AF. I will not keep any AF cards for the sake of keeping them. It all depends on how each person values AF cards.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

Anonymous — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 00:25:00 GMT

All my AF cards with the exception of one are currently in the first year. I will probably end up with 3 AF cards going forward where I would pay the AF (ink plus, BCP, SPG), but this is subject to how they perform over the first year. It all depends on whether or not the benefits/rewards of the card justify the AF. I will not keep any AF cards for the sake of keeping them. It all depends on how each person values AF cards.

+1 -- 100% agree.
Since most of my CC's are new with no AF's for the first year as part of their welcome bonus, the only AF I'm paying for this year is for my BCP. Based on its rewards structure & our normal spend, that card will pay for itself. So, keeping it even with the AF is worth it for us.

Just recently closed a couple of my rebuilder cards - about 6 months prior to their anniversaries - but those would've been gone by their anniversary dates regardless because they no longer served a purpose, especially with an AF.

My Cap1 QS card initially had a $39 AF, but was able to get that permanently changed to no-AF thru their EO.

So, that leaves me with the AmEx PRG & Barclay Arrival. As the previous poster stated, their benefits will have to outweigh the cost of their AF's in order for me to keep them past the first 12 months. Hoping they're here to stay. But as my & my family's financial goals evolve/change, so may the financial tools to get there....

Just to add -- there are a few more cards I'm considering for the future -- most of which have an AF associated with them. Whether or not the card has an AF is not the determining factor.....it's really about the overall benefits & rates of return that matters to me.....

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

Anonymous — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 00:59:08 GMT

Annual fees are viewed way too negatively here. It should just be viewed as part of the rewards equation: Ask "If I choose card X, given how I will allocate my spend to the card (and possibly how I value points if it is a points card) what is my expected return over a year?" Then compare this to other cards you could reasonably get. There may be other factors, such as "getting in with issuer X" etc, but that is the basic value idea.

So, it makes no sense to pay an AF if there is a card without one that offers nearly the same benefits, which raises the bar for a lot of cashback cards, when you have free cards like Fidelity Amex (2%) and Quicksilver (1.5%) and the free 5% categories (such as Cash Plus/Freedom/Discover)

But if the rewards are valuable, then a large AF may well be worth paying (as people do for Amex Plat, Citi AA Exec etc)

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

clocktick — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:06:58 GMT

Right now the cards I have an AF with are:

BCP - I did the mah and it easily pays for itself so I feel like I don't even pay an AF

CSP - My go to card and combine the points with the Freedom 5% back

Chase United - I exclusively fly with them, whether international or domestic, and the AF is worth if for the free checked bags for my passenger and me

Citi Reserve - Kept it for Gold Status but undecided if I'm going to keep it yet another year when the AF is up in April

-----

Chase Ink - got it for the points last year and will cancel before the AF at the one year mark

-----

Got rid of at the one year mark before AF hit:

BofA Virgin Atlantic - Got it for the points and converted them to Hilton points

BofA Hawaiian Air - had 2 of these cards simultaneously for the points and also converted them to HHH points

Amex Gold - Got it for MR points

Edited to add - got rid of Amex Surpass too in favor of the Citi Reserve

I use the them until they're no good to me/not worth it anymore and then I dump them! When the AF outweights the benefit, for me, is when they get dumped.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

Anonymous — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:09:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Annual fees are viewed way too negatively here. It should just be viewed as part of the rewards equation: Ask "If I choose card X, given how I will allocate my spend to the card (and possibly how I value points if it is a points card) what is my expected return over a year?" Then compare this to other cards you could reasonably get. There may be other factors, such as "getting in with issuer X" etc, but that is the basic value idea.

So, it makes no sense to pay an AF if there is a card without one that offers nearly the same benefits, which raises the bar for a lot of cashback cards, when you have free cards like Fidelity Amex (2%) and Quicksilver (1.5%) and the free 5% categories (such as Cash Plus/Freedom/Discover)

But if the rewards are valuable, then a large AF may well be worth paying (as people do for Amex Plat, Citi AA Exec etc)

+1.

It really depends on how much you can spend, what you are spending on, and your needs.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

B335is — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:11:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Annual fees are viewed way too negatively here. It should just be viewed as part of the rewards equation: Ask "If I choose card X, given how I will allocate my spend to the card (and possibly how I value points if it is a points card) what is my expected return over a year?" Then compare this to other cards you could reasonably get. There may be other factors, such as "getting in with issuer X" etc, but that is the basic value idea.

So, it makes no sense to pay an AF if there is a card without one that offers nearly the same benefits, which raises the bar for a lot of cashback cards, when you have free cards like Fidelity Amex (2%) and Quicksilver (1.5%) and the free 5% categories (such as Cash Plus/Freedom/Discover)

But if the rewards are valuable, then a large AF may well be worth paying (as people do for Amex Plat, Citi AA Exec etc)

Airline cards are a good example in my case. I always check a bag, so a few roundtrips and that waived fee pays the AF on the card. I have quite a few AF cards and usually get talked out of cancelling with some retention bonus. Amex PRG is the only one on my radar I'm thinking about cancelling at the moment. I don't get the value for the AF with it that others may see.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

efranklin23 — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:41:42 GMT

@B335is wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Annual fees are viewed way too negatively here. It should just be viewed as part of the rewards equation: Ask "If I choose card X, given how I will allocate my spend to the card (and possibly how I value points if it is a points card) what is my expected return over a year?" Then compare this to other cards you could reasonably get. There may be other factors, such as "getting in with issuer X" etc, but that is the basic value idea.

So, it makes no sense to pay an AF if there is a card without one that offers nearly the same benefits, which raises the bar for a lot of cashback cards, when you have free cards like Fidelity Amex (2%) and Quicksilver (1.5%) and the free 5% categories (such as Cash Plus/Freedom/Discover)

But if the rewards are valuable, then a large AF may well be worth paying (as people do for Amex Plat, Citi AA Exec etc)
+1

Airline cards are a good example in my case. I always check a bag, so a few roundtrips and that waived fee pays the AF on the card. I have quite a few AF cards and usually get talked out of cancelling with some retention bonus. Amex PRG is the only one on my radar I'm thinking about cancelling at the moment. I don't get the value for the AF with it that others may see.

+1 While I'm not a fan of having more than 2 cards with AF, having a card with an AF is no good if you're spending enough to justify it. Considering I spend 1000/month across all cards, it's better for me not to use cards with AF at the moment.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

Anonymous — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 01:56:40 GMT

I think the only issue with multiple AF cards is that some people (including me!) don't re-evaluate as they gain more cards.

So, my first AF card makes sense because I am going to put $X on it, and get $Y in rewards, which is way more than the AF. And the same is true of my next card, that gets $Z spend, and gives back more than it's AF. But as I get more and more cards, both with and without AF, it turns out that I am only putting $X/3 on the first card and $Z/4 on the second, and the reduction in rewards now makes the card worth less than the AF.

So, providing you care enough, it's worth doing a cost-benefit look at your cards every so often.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

Anonymous — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 04:49:27 GMT

Everyone has great points.

The BCP will easily pay for itself with it being my primary card.

The SW Visa will as well with the 6k anniversary bonus negating the AF. Being that I fly SW every year, it makes sense for me to carry two AF cards.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

red259 — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:01:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I think the only issue with multiple AF cards is that some people (including me!) don't re-evaluate as they gain more cards.

So, my first AF card makes sense because I am going to put $X on it, and get $Y in rewards, which is way more than the AF. And the same is true of my next card, that gets $Z spend, and gives back more than it's AF. But as I get more and more cards, both with and without AF, it turns out that I am only putting $X/3 on the first card and $Z/4 on the second, and the reduction in rewards now makes the card worth less than the AF.

So, providing you care enough, it's worth doing a cost-benefit look at your cards every so often.

I would recommend going through your cards every six months to make sure you are still happy with them. This way you will have time to prepare if you decide you do not wish to renew an AF card, by looking for alternative cards/ great signup offers that may take its place. There is nothing more that I hate than having some fee renew on a service I was planning to cancel.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

red259 — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:10:46 GMT

@clocktick wrote:
Right now the cards I have an AF with are:

BCP - I did the mah and it easily pays for itself so I feel like I don't even pay an AF
CSP - My go to card and combine the points with the Freedom 5% back
Chase United - I exclusively fly with them, whether international or domestic, and the AF is worth if for the free checked bags for my passenger and me
Citi Reserve - Kept it for Gold Status but undecided if I'm going to keep it yet another year when the AF is up in April
-----
Chase Ink - got it for the points last year and will cancel before the AF at the one year mark
-----
Got rid of at the one year mark before AF hit:

BofA Virgin Atlantic - Got it for the points and converted them to Hilton points
BofA Hawaiian Air - had 2 of these cards simultaneously for the points and also converted them to HHH points
Amex Gold - Got it for MR points
Edited to add - got rid of Amex Surpass too in favor of the Citi Reserve

I use the them until they're no good to me/not worth it anymore and then I dump them! When the AF outweights the benefit, for me, is when they get dumped.

Just curious why are you going to cancel the Chase Ink? My plan is to get the chase ink for the bonus and then cancel the CSP before AF. I find the Ink categories more valuable with the ink. Also with the Ink being a biz card it will not report on my CR and impact my util each month and some other perks.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

red259 — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:13:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Everyone has great points.
The BCP will easily pay for itself with it being my primary card.
The SW Visa will as well with the 6k anniversary bonus negating the AF. Being that I fly SW every year, it makes sense for me to carry two AF cards.

Have you considered picking up another card? The BCP is great for its categories, but there are other cards that will give you a better return for the non-category spend. If you simply want cash back there are some non-AF cards you can get, which will provide a better return on general spend.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

Open123 — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:25:46 GMT

@red259 wrote:
Just curious why are you going to cancel the Chase Ink? My plan is to get the chase ink for the bonus and then cancel the CSP before AF. I find the Ink categories more valuable with the ink. Also with the Ink being a biz card it will not report on my CR and impact my util each month and some other perks.

Right, the way I did it is to pay for the Ink Plus (fee is a business write off) to confer transferability to all UR points, downgrade CSP to Sapphire for the 2X dining, and use the Freedom's 5%.

The Ink Plus 5X Office and Telecom is extremely valuable.

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

red259 — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 05:52:51 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@red259 wrote:
Just curious why are you going to cancel the Chase Ink? My plan is to get the chase ink for the bonus and then cancel the CSP before AF. I find the Ink categories more valuable with the ink. Also with the Ink being a biz card it will not report on my CR and impact my util each month and some other perks.
Right, the way I did it is to pay for the Ink Plus (fee is a business write off) to confer transferability to all UR points, downgrade CSP to Sapphire for the 2X dining, and use the Freedom's 5%.

The Ink Plus 5X Office and Telecom is extremely valuable.

I was going to cancel the CSP after the first year, but I did not realize the downgraded CS also has the x2 on restaurant spend as well. So now my game plan is just downgrade it! Much much better idea!

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

Anonymous — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 06:22:41 GMT

What cards are you referring to?

Re: Multiple Annual Fee Cards?

GetTheFico — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 14:58:34 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I think the only issue with multiple AF cards is that some people (including me!) don't re-evaluate as they gain more cards.

So, my first AF card makes sense because I am going to put $X on it, and get $Y in rewards, which is way more than the AF. And the same is true of my next card, that gets $Z spend, and gives back more than it's AF. But as I get more and more cards, both with and without AF, it turns out that I am only putting $X/3 on the first card and $Z/4 on the second, and the reduction in rewards now makes the card worth less than the AF.

So, providing you care enough, it's worth doing a cost-benefit look at your cards every so often.

Good piece of advice.