topic Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ? in Credit Cards

bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

mjccredit — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 00:30:56 GMT

All,

I am still learning so much here but am wodnering what cards are considered " starter or bottom tier cards and which are more top end ?

I know QuickSilver One from Cap one is a starter card

Freedom and Slate from Chase ?

Just curious.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Stralem — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 00:49:19 GMT

This is a tough question. What exactly constitutes "low tier" or "high tier"? Excluding really obvious tiered cards like the Palladium and Centurion on the high-end and anything from First Premiere on the garbage-end, it's not as cut-and-dry as you might think.

Chase's Freedom, for example, is the first Chase card that many people get, but it's not trivially easy to acquire. Just search the forum for all the threads by people who have tried and failed to do so. So given allo that, is the Freedom an "entry-level" card or not? I honestly couldn't tell you.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Themanwhocan — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 01:24:54 GMT

Less than 2% cash back is low tier. greater than 2% is high tier.

2% is the average amount you should expect to obtain...

Well, at least that definition works for me.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 01:57:23 GMT

@Themanwhocan wrote:
Less than 2% cash back is low tier. greater than 2% is high tier.

2% is the average amount you should expect to obtain...

Well, at least that definition works for me.

Not "blue is high tier"?

Interesting definition though. So what about Freedom, because that gets 5% on some things is that high tier, or because it is generally 1% is it low?

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

DavidZeng — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 02:02:16 GMT

Cards earn point that can transfer or redeemed at higher value are top tier for me, for cash back >4%. I only spent 5% category on discover now and use the discover portal but pay with my AMEX SPG.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 02:08:41 GMT

@Stralem wrote:
This is a tough question. What exactly constitutes "low tier" or "high tier"? Excluding really obvious tiered cards like the Palladium and Centurion on the high-end and anything from First Premiere on the garbage-end, it's not as cut-and-dry as you might think.

Chase's Freedom, for example, is the first Chase card that many people get, but it's not trivially easy to acquire. Just search the forum for all the threads by people who have tried and failed to do so. So given allo that, is the Freedom an "entry-level" card or not? I honestly couldn't tell you.

I think the Freedom is one of Chase's entry level cards (along with say the Slate) simply because it is easier to get than some of the other cards, such as CSP (which are easier to get than the Palladium!) But "entry level" doesn't mean anything negative, or imply that is itrivial to get, merely that, for that particular issuer, you would be more likely to be approved for that than one of the higher tiered cards.

But I agree it is not cut and dried in most cases. Sometimes, like with say US Bank, they tell you that if they are unable to approve you for the Cash Plus, you will be considered for (don't recall the name). So that tells us the order between those two cards. In other situations it is if we cannot give you the Sig/World we will consider you for the Platinum.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Revelate — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 02:18:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Stralem wrote:
This is a tough question. What exactly constitutes "low tier" or "high tier"? Excluding really obvious tiered cards like the Palladium and Centurion on the high-end and anything from First Premiere on the garbage-end, it's not as cut-and-dry as you might think.

Chase's Freedom, for example, is the first Chase card that many people get, but it's not trivially easy to acquire. Just search the forum for all the threads by people who have tried and failed to do so. So given allo that, is the Freedom an "entry-level" card or not? I honestly couldn't tell you.

I think the Freedom is one of Chase's entry level cards (along with say the Slate) simply because it is easier to get than some of the other cards, such as CSP (which are easier to get than the Palladium!) But "entry level" doesn't mean anything negative, or imply that is itrivial to get, merely that, for that particular issuer, you would be more likely to be approved for that than one of the higher tiered cards.

But I agree it is not cut and dried in most cases. Sometimes, like with say US Bank, they tell you that if they are unable to approve you for the Cash Plus, you will be considered for (don't recall the name). So that tells us the order between those two cards. In other situations it is if we cannot give you the Sig/World we will consider you for the Platinum.

IF you go by UW guidelines (which is about all you can do really) I fully agree with longtimelurker.

That said, I think it's pointless: some cards are better suited for an individual others - much as I'm surprised by it, the Freedom this year is better than a CSP for me, but it's not debatable that Freedom is Chase's entry level card currently, and CSP is effectively their top tier (Palladium doesn't count in my estimation: deposit $100k and pay a fee for mediocre benefits /yawn, I could get that card and I'm not so certain I could get a CSP right now though if I took the 100k deposit I probably could).

You can find pretty similar things for virtually every lender out there, but these things change on a regular basis. As an example neither the CSP nor Amex's BCP are nearly as presetigous from an underwriting perspective as they were up to the first half of 2012. Until consumers start defaulting again, we're still seeing a race to the bottom as the newly banked consumers is likely a blue water market.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

phonic — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 02:49:37 GMT

While there are certainly 'bottom-tier' cards (CreditOne, First Premier, anything with a rediculous AF/MF and deposit, etc.) as well as 'super-high-tier' cards (Centurion, Paladium, that Dubai one with a diamond in it, etc.), there really isn't a whole lot of difference between what's in the middle.

Sure, CapitalOne is more of an entry level issuer, since they will be more likely to give out credit to people that have none. And some banks are more stingy with who they will approve for anything. But in the end, the benefits that the cards come with, and how valuable they are to you, is what really matters. For example, the CapitalOne QuickSilver card (either version) comes with 2% cash back across the board for any purchases. That's a pretty nice perk that can double your earnings in categories that aren't usually included in promotions (gas, food, travel, etc.). But it's also considered a lower status card.

On the other hand, Amex Platinum still has a lot of prestige. But the benefits are mediocre for most and getting worse every year. Unless you travel a LOT, there is no reason to get it. Amex keeps pestering me to upgrade my PRG to the Platinum, but I have no interest in it.

In the end, for the middle spectrum that covers 90% of the cards out there, prestige is meaningless. The average person has no idea what cards actually have more stringent UW guidelines and would technically imply that the cardholder had better credit. Especially in the US where the highest category cards (Visa Signature, Mastercard World) have paltry requirements to some of their overseas counterparts.

So you shouldn't concern yourself as much with what is better simply because a bank says it is, and focus more on what's better for you.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 02:57:00 GMT

Freedom is a good card but probably not entry level. People still need fairly good credit and a little thickness to their file for a decent limit. Approval with a low limit can be pretty frustrating.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 02:59:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Freedom is a good card but probably not entry level. People still need fairly good credit and a little thickness to their file for a decent limit. Approval with a low limit can be pretty frustrating.

Again, entry level means in comparison to other cards for that issuer, not that it is trivial.

An entry-level programming job at Google (or whichever company you prefer) is going to be very hard to get for most, but is still easier than entering Google as VP of Stuff.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Revelate — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 03:06:11 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Freedom is a good card but probably not entry level. People still need fairly good credit and a little thickness to their file for a decent limit. Approval with a low limit can be pretty frustrating.

When the rewards are capped at something like 1.5K, even a $500 limit isn't that terrible.

640 or less FICO requirements, one year credit history... and it's the easiest card to obtain with Chase especially with their absurdly good recon policy. Chase doesn't offer a secured nor a student card, so it's entry level for Chase. Really it is entry-level rewards outside of the rewards one can get either on a secured card like BOFA's, or a student card like Discover.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Themanwhocan — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 03:10:43 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Stralem wrote:
This is a tough question. What exactly constitutes "low tier" or "high tier"? Excluding really obvious tiered cards like the Palladium and Centurion on the high-end and anything from First Premiere on the garbage-end, it's not as cut-and-dry as you might think.

Chase's Freedom, for example, is the first Chase card that many people get, but it's not trivially easy to acquire. Just search the forum for all the threads by people who have tried and failed to do so. So given allo that, is the Freedom an "entry-level" card or not? I honestly couldn't tell you.

I think the Freedom is one of Chase's entry level cards (along with say the Slate) simply because it is easier to get than some of the other cards, such as CSP (which are easier to get than the Palladium!) But "entry level" doesn't mean anything negative, or imply that is itrivial to get, merely that, for that particular issuer, you would be more likely to be approved for that than one of the higher tiered cards.

But I agree it is not cut and dried in most cases. Sometimes, like with say US Bank, they tell you that if they are unable to approve you for the Cash Plus, you will be considered for (don't recall the name). So that tells us the order between those two cards. In other situations it is if we cannot give you the Sig/World we will consider you for the Platinum.
IF you go by UW guidelines (which is about all you can do really) I fully agree with longtimelurker.

That said, I think it's pointless: some cards are better suited for an individual others - much as I'm surprised by it, the Freedom this year is better than a CSP for me, but it's not debatable that Freedom is Chase's entry level card currently, and CSP is effectively their top tier (Palladium doesn't count in my estimation: deposit $100k and pay a fee for mediocre benefits /yawn, I could get that card and I'm not so certain I could get a CSP right now though if I took the 100k deposit I probably could).

You can find pretty similar things for virtually every lender out there, but these things change on a regular basis. As an example neither the CSP nor Amex's BCP are nearly as presetigous from an underwriting perspective as they were up to the first half of 2012. Until consumers start defaulting again, we're still seeing a race to the bottom as the newly banked consumers is likely a blue water market.

HEH. You said blue...

Unfortunately, its not as cut and dry as putting the cards into pidgeon holes. Freedom isn't very useful at all to me, though the $200 signup bonus came in handy. But for someone with a CSP that can convert points earned at 5X and multiply them by transferring to a travel rewards system, then it probably becomes one of the best. People complain about the US Bank Cash+, but I have no trouble using it just enough to earn $100 of rewards in a year and qualifying for a $25 debit card, making that a 6.25% cash back card. Some people LOVE the Amex BCP for its 6% Grocery, but you have to only use it for ONLY grocery, and spend exactly $1500 each quarter to maximize the return, and even then you only earn 4.75% cash back due to the annual fee. Most people wouldn't hit those quarterly targets exactly, which would reduce the value of that card alot.

To jump to another thought, a 5% rotator card would have to be considered high tier. You only consider the best return %, even if that is only useful to a particular person in certain categories or certain quarters of the year. It is up to the user of the card to use it properly to maximize profit. So, to summarize:

Phase 1) Collect high tier cards

Phase 2) ??

Phase 3) Profit!

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 03:30:22 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Freedom is a good card but probably not entry level. People still need fairly good credit and a little thickness to their file for a decent limit. Approval with a low limit can be pretty frustrating.
When the rewards are capped at something like 1.5K, even a $500 limit isn't that terrible.

640 or less FICO requirements, one year credit history... and it's the easiest card to obtain with Chase especially with their absurdly good recon policy. Chase doesn't offer a secured nor a student card, so it's entry level for Chase. Really it is entry-level rewards outside of the rewards one can get either on a secured card like BOFA's, or a student card like Discover.

I'm too stingy with HPs to give one up for lower limits.

I want real love!!

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 03:34:29 GMT

@Themanwhocan wrote:
Unfortunately, its not as cut and dry as putting the cards into pidgeon holes. Freedom isn't very useful at all to me, though the $200 signup bonus came in handy. But for someone with a CSP that can convert points earned at 5X and multiply them by transferring to a travel rewards system, then it probably becomes one of the best. People complain about the US Bank Cash+, but I have no trouble using it just enough to earn $100 of rewards in a year and qualifying for a $25 debit card, making that a 6.25% cash back card. Some people LOVE the Amex BCP for its 6% Grocery, but you have to only use it for ONLY grocery, and spend exactly $1500 each quarter to maximize the return, and even then you only earn 4.75% cash back due to the annual fee. Most people wouldn't hit those quarterly targets exactly, which would reduce the value of that card alot.

Not all that important, but just want to point out: the BCP DOESN'T have a quarterly limit, you are free to spend $6K any way you want!

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Revelate — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 03:48:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Freedom is a good card but probably not entry level. People still need fairly good credit and a little thickness to their file for a decent limit. Approval with a low limit can be pretty frustrating.
When the rewards are capped at something like 1.5K, even a $500 limit isn't that terrible.

640 or less FICO requirements, one year credit history... and it's the easiest card to obtain with Chase especially with their absurdly good recon policy. Chase doesn't offer a secured nor a student card, so it's entry level for Chase. Really it is entry-level rewards outside of the rewards one can get either on a secured card like BOFA's, or a student card like Discover.
I'm too stingy with HPs to give one up for lower limits.

I want real love!!

May wind up looking from the outside in on a rewards package with that view unfortunately Credit reports have to be used occasionally to have any value for us as a consumer, and limits are pretty immaterial with the exception of if a card has a minimum limit vis a vis 5K to qualify on it in my opinion. There's no better way to get a CLI than to demonstrate you could use a larger credit limit with a lender, and given one should be looking at a 3 year minimum time horizon when it comes to credit planning prior gold-plated level, inquiries that fall off in a year are "whatever" in my book.

Just another way of looking at it.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

DavidZeng — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 03:51:35 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Themanwhocan wrote:
Unfortunately, its not as cut and dry as putting the cards into pidgeon holes. Freedom isn't very useful at all to me, though the $200 signup bonus came in handy. But for someone with a CSP that can convert points earned at 5X and multiply them by transferring to a travel rewards system, then it probably becomes one of the best. People complain about the US Bank Cash+, but I have no trouble using it just enough to earn $100 of rewards in a year and qualifying for a $25 debit card, making that a 6.25% cash back card. Some people LOVE the Amex BCP for its 6% Grocery, but you have to only use it for ONLY grocery, and spend exactly $1500 each quarter to maximize the return, and even then you only earn 4.75% cash back due to the annual fee. Most people wouldn't hit those quarterly targets exactly, which would reduce the value of that card alot.

Not all that important, but just want to point out: the BCP DOESN'T have a quarterly limit, you are free to spend $6K any way you want!

BCP is great for Grocery, Now I spent 400-600 grocery on BCP, but please don't forget umlimited 3% department store is quite useful for me as well, when shopping around for clothes and other things, I don't think it is a bad card.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 04:40:38 GMT

@DavidZeng wrote:

BCP is great for Grocery, Now I spent 400-600 grocery on BCP, but please don't forget umlimited 3% department store is quite useful for me as well, when shopping around for clothes and other things, I don't think it is a bad card.

Oh, it's not a bad card, but depends on your spending patterns and other cards. If you spend a lot at the specified department stores, that can be valuable, but check that the spending (over say a 2% or 1.5% card) justifies the fee.

Now that I have enough 5% grocery and gas cards, today I PCd my BCP to a BCE, as the AF was no longer justified for me.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

maksimfa — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 08:31:52 GMT

Quicksilver is 1.5%, not 2. =)

However, it is still one of the best cards. for 1.5% cash back on all. Capital One Spark Cash is 2% accross cash back.

Barclays Rewards is 1%/2%.

Both are unlimited, and post rewards instantly. Amex and others do not, yet are considered higher tiered cards.

It is all bs anyway, to make people feel better about the card they are carrying, to justify the fees, etc.

It is all about the perks and the benefits you personally get out of it.

For business uses, the lowly capital 1 card with uncapped cash back is great option. Also great are Barclays Arrival, but mostly travel redemptions.

Blue Cash, the old one, really is the holy grail of cash back cards, with 5% on everyday spending over $6500, grocery, drugs, gas.... YET it is bottom tier amex card.... go figure.

My Amex Biz Plat with the $450 annual fee is considered high tier... yet the MR is weaker than the 2% spark business cash back card. Where the Amex fits for me is the companion ticket, airfare credit, and lounge access. and of course the awesome service.

So.... this is a stupid question. It sould be what the best card is for you.

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 11:02:01 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Freedom is a good card but probably not entry level. People still need fairly good credit and a little thickness to their file for a decent limit. Approval with a low limit can be pretty frustrating.
When the rewards are capped at something like 1.5K, even a $500 limit isn't that terrible.

640 or less FICO requirements, one year credit history... and it's the easiest card to obtain with Chase especially with their absurdly good recon policy. Chase doesn't offer a secured nor a student card, so it's entry level for Chase. Really it is entry-level rewards outside of the rewards one can get either on a secured card like BOFA's, or a student card like Discover.
I'm too stingy with HPs to give one up for lower limits.

I want real love!!
May wind up looking from the outside in on a rewards package with that view unfortunately Credit reports have to be used occasionally to have any value for us as a consumer, and limits are pretty immaterial with the exception of if a card has a minimum limit vis a vis 5K to qualify on it in my opinion. There's no better way to get a CLI than to demonstrate you could use a larger credit limit with a lender, and given one should be looking at a 3 year minimum time horizon when it comes to credit planning prior gold-plated level, inquiries that fall off in a year are "whatever" in my book.

Just another way of looking at it.

Don't get me wrong, Freedom is a good card and I have one. It's just at this point there aren't many cards that would improve my financial life enough to justify an inquiry hanging around 2 years. I haven't applied for a new card in over two years.

The battery stopped taking a charge in my 7 year old Mac last night, though. Apple financing may end up having their dirty way with me. I need to decide between a new computer out of savings, use another card, or open a new account within about 45 minutes, LOL!

Re: bottom and top tier cards cards for each major company ?

mjccredit — Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:58:35 GMT

@maksimfa wrote:
Quicksilver is 1.5%, not 2. =)

However, it is still one of the best cards. for 1.5% cash back on all. Capital One Spark Cash is 2% accross cash back.

Barclays Rewards is 1%/2%.

Both are unlimited, and post rewards instantly. Amex and others do not, yet are considered higher tiered cards.

It is all bs anyway, to make people feel better about the card they are carrying, to justify the fees, etc.

It is all about the perks and the benefits you personally get out of it.

For business uses, the lowly capital 1 card with uncapped cash back is great option. Also great are Barclays Arrival, but mostly travel redemptions.

Blue Cash, the old one, really is the holy grail of cash back cards, with 5% on everyday spending over $6500, grocery, drugs, gas.... YET it is bottom tier amex card.... go figure.

My Amex Biz Plat with the $450 annual fee is considered high tier... yet the MR is weaker than the 2% spark business cash back card. Where the Amex fits for me is the companion ticket, airfare credit, and lounge access. and of course the awesome service.

So.... this is a stupid question. It sould be what the best card is for you.

@ Maksimfa - I dont think its a stupid question as each issuer clealry has an order of cards from entry level to premier. I didnt ask which was best for me, clealry I would know the answer tot that. I asked what cards are what tier by issuer... not sure why you think that is a stupid question .