topic Re: AMEX Financial Review in Credit Cards

AMEX Financial Review

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 02:30:57 GMT

Hey everyone,

I received a call today from an Unknown number. I usually don't answer these types of calls but decided to anyway. To my surprise it was a representative calling from AMEX's financial review team. He informed me that my account was under financial review and that my accounts would be suspended pending submission and review of last year's tax return. He then asked my current employer and address, job title, years employed and annual income.

I asked why my accounts were flagged for FR and the rep told me that the reason is because my authorized card member had spent more money over the past few months more than I had. I informed him that he was spending more due to travel for his job. He paid for hotel and airfare with one of his cards then PIF when his job reimbursed him. The rep didn't ask for his tax documents, just mine.

I'm going to fax over the information tomorrow but am a little annoyed and irritated because of the intrusive process.

FYI, I have an AMEX Green and Blue Cash card and just applied and received the Gold premier rewards card last week.

Re: AMEX Financial Review

myjourney — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 02:47:01 GMT

This has been known in the past to trigger an FR by Amex

AU's spending more than the primary cardholder

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 02:49:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The rep didn't ask for his tax documents, just mine.

Right, they don't want/need the AU tax docs, as you are the one financially responsible. Hope it goes well!

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 03:59:29 GMT

Hope it all goes well!

Re: AMEX Financial Review

mongstradamus — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:00:53 GMT

It seems like its an double edged sword with amex , I am afraid of getting FR'ed, but i really do like the 3x CLI and MSD :-(

Re: AMEX Financial Review

destine2grow — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:01:28 GMT

Good luck OP!

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Jarnog — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:16:03 GMT

Is this something that is "normal"?

I hope all goes well for you OP, but now I am a bit scared LOL.

My mother decided to get an Amex to help me and DW in our rebuild. She got approved for the BCP with a $6000 limit. Me and the DW are ACM's and exclusively use the card. By this I mean, my mother basically SD hers as she didn't need/want it. So it is our (DW and mine) card. We use it, took advantage of the 0% offer, and have put a good 3k through it in 2 months since it was opened.

Do I need to warn my mother that she may get a call? LoL.

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:17:02 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
It seems like its an double edged sword with amex , I am afraid of getting FR'ed, but i really do like the 3x CLI and MSD :-(

Two things to bear in mind:

1) FRs are really rare. You see the posts (and there are two going on now, which is also rare!) but you don't see the posts "Another day when I didn't get an FR!"

2) As others have alluded, FRs can be, at least in theory, preferable to what other issuers do. If Chase, Citi etc have concerns, they will close down your cards and when you ask why, will cite "Security" and not tell you more. At least with Amex, you have a chance to put your side of the case (providing you provide the docs they want).

Of course, many feel the tax form stuff is intrusive (I do as well) but at least you have the choice! With other issuers, you are just shut down.

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Closingracer99 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:21:27 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
It seems like its an double edged sword with amex , I am afraid of getting FR'ed, but i really do like the 3x CLI and MSD :-(
Two things to bear in mind:

1) FRs are really rare. You see the posts (and there are two going on now, which is also rare!) but you don't see the posts "Another day when I didn't get an FR!"
2) As others have alluded, FRs can be, at least in theory, preferable to what other issuers do. If Chase, Citi etc have concerns, they will close down your cards and when you ask why, will cite "Security" and not tell you more. At least with Amex, you have a chance to put your side of the case (providing you provide the docs they want).

Of course, many feel the tax form stuff is intrusive (I do as well) but at least you have the choice! With other issuers, you are just shut down.

Yes I think Tax forms are intrusive and I think Amex could say take your Bank statement or Statements from 1+ bank accounts that you have depending on if you use more then 1

Re: AMEX Financial Review

ezdoesit — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:34:57 GMT

@Closingracer99 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
It seems like its an double edged sword with amex , I am afraid of getting FR'ed, but i really do like the 3x CLI and MSD :-(
Two things to bear in mind:

1) FRs are really rare. You see the posts (and there are two going on now, which is also rare!) but you don't see the posts "Another day when I didn't get an FR!"
2) As others have alluded, FRs can be, at least in theory, preferable to what other issuers do. If Chase, Citi etc have concerns, they will close down your cards and when you ask why, will cite "Security" and not tell you more. At least with Amex, you have a chance to put your side of the case (providing you provide the docs they want).

Of course, many feel the tax form stuff is intrusive (I do as well) but at least you have the choice! With other issuers, you are just shut down.
Yes I think Tax forms are intrusive and I think Amex could say take your Bank statement or Statements from 1+ bank accounts that you have depending on if you use more then 1

I don't know I would think giving someone my bankstatement would be intrusive. Tax documents are really just a snapshot. Whereas my bankstatement they can see every little tranactions I make and to whom. Not that I would like either but I guess if I was backed against the wall I would have to make the decision if I want them to have that info. Part of that decision would unfortunately be money driven how many MR points I might lose. Opposed to losing Amex there are plenty of CCC that would be happy to take my business I would have to look at it that way.

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Closingracer99 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 04:44:35 GMT

@ezdoesit wrote:
@Closingracer99 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
It seems like its an double edged sword with amex , I am afraid of getting FR'ed, but i really do like the 3x CLI and MSD :-(
Two things to bear in mind:

1) FRs are really rare. You see the posts (and there are two going on now, which is also rare!) but you don't see the posts "Another day when I didn't get an FR!"
2) As others have alluded, FRs can be, at least in theory, preferable to what other issuers do. If Chase, Citi etc have concerns, they will close down your cards and when you ask why, will cite "Security" and not tell you more. At least with Amex, you have a chance to put your side of the case (providing you provide the docs they want).

Of course, many feel the tax form stuff is intrusive (I do as well) but at least you have the choice! With other issuers, you are just shut down.
Yes I think Tax forms are intrusive and I think Amex could say take your Bank statement or Statements from 1+ bank accounts that you have depending on if you use more then 1
I don't know I would think giving someone my bankstatement would be intrusive. Tax documents are really just a snapshot. Whereas my bankstatement they can see every little tranactions I make and to whom. Not that I would like either but I guess if I was backed against the wall I would have to make the decision if I want them to have that info. Part of that decision would unfortunately be money driven how many MR points I might lose. Opposed to losing Amex there are plenty of CCC that would be happy to take my business I would have to look at it that way.

Yes but from what the other thread is about ...don't matter if they were fudging it or whatever the fact is somebody could have been in a job paying $10k the year before and then found full time employment making $40k the next year. Obviously last years Tax forms would show the $10k and not the $40k salary he is making now

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 11:15:29 GMT

In seems fr rarely happen when you look at how many cardholders Amex has. Online it sounds frequent but its prob a very small percentage.

Re: AMEX Financial Review

ezdoesit — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 11:31:22 GMT

@Closingracer99 wrote:
@ezdoesit wrote:
@Closingracer99 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
It seems like its an double edged sword with amex , I am afraid of getting FR'ed, but i really do like the 3x CLI and MSD :-(
Two things to bear in mind:

1) FRs are really rare. You see the posts (and there are two going on now, which is also rare!) but you don't see the posts "Another day when I didn't get an FR!"
2) As others have alluded, FRs can be, at least in theory, preferable to what other issuers do. If Chase, Citi etc have concerns, they will close down your cards and when you ask why, will cite "Security" and not tell you more. At least with Amex, you have a chance to put your side of the case (providing you provide the docs they want).

Of course, many feel the tax form stuff is intrusive (I do as well) but at least you have the choice! With other issuers, you are just shut down.
Yes I think Tax forms are intrusive and I think Amex could say take your Bank statement or Statements from 1+ bank accounts that you have depending on if you use more then 1
I don't know I would think giving someone my bankstatement would be intrusive. Tax documents are really just a snapshot. Whereas my bankstatement they can see every little tranactions I make and to whom. Not that I would like either but I guess if I was backed against the wall I would have to make the decision if I want them to have that info. Part of that decision would unfortunately be money driven how many MR points I might lose. Opposed to losing Amex there are plenty of CCC that would be happy to take my business I would have to look at it that way.
Yes but from what the other thread is about ...don't matter if they were fudging it or whatever the fact is somebody could have been in a job paying $10k the year before and then found full time employment making $40k the next year. Obviously last years Tax forms would show the $10k and not the $40k salary he is making now

Your right but at the time of app was your salary what was stated on the app. I am sure if that was in question then you could easily send paystubs to verify the info on app. I think it has more to do with the possible criminal aspect of it like money laundering.

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Closingracer99 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 11:55:01 GMT

@ezdoesit wrote:
@Closingracer99 wrote:
@ezdoesit wrote:
@Closingracer99 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@mongstradamus wrote:
It seems like its an double edged sword with amex , I am afraid of getting FR'ed, but i really do like the 3x CLI and MSD :-(
Two things to bear in mind:

1) FRs are really rare. You see the posts (and there are two going on now, which is also rare!) but you don't see the posts "Another day when I didn't get an FR!"
2) As others have alluded, FRs can be, at least in theory, preferable to what other issuers do. If Chase, Citi etc have concerns, they will close down your cards and when you ask why, will cite "Security" and not tell you more. At least with Amex, you have a chance to put your side of the case (providing you provide the docs they want).

Of course, many feel the tax form stuff is intrusive (I do as well) but at least you have the choice! With other issuers, you are just shut down.
Yes I think Tax forms are intrusive and I think Amex could say take your Bank statement or Statements from 1+ bank accounts that you have depending on if you use more then 1
I don't know I would think giving someone my bankstatement would be intrusive. Tax documents are really just a snapshot. Whereas my bankstatement they can see every little tranactions I make and to whom. Not that I would like either but I guess if I was backed against the wall I would have to make the decision if I want them to have that info. Part of that decision would unfortunately be money driven how many MR points I might lose. Opposed to losing Amex there are plenty of CCC that would be happy to take my business I would have to look at it that way.
Yes but from what the other thread is about ...don't matter if they were fudging it or whatever the fact is somebody could have been in a job paying $10k the year before and then found full time employment making $40k the next year. Obviously last years Tax forms would show the $10k and not the $40k salary he is making now
Your right but at the time of app was your salary what was stated on the app. I am sure if that was in question then you could easily send paystubs to verify the info on app. I think it has more to do with the possible criminal aspect of it like money laundering.

Oh I understand why they want Tax returns but I think they have a little more leeway with it . Honestly Paystubs or Bank statements can bring the same thign as Tax forms

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Dw4250 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:13:19 GMT

Maybe I have a different opinion on this but I do not think an FR is at all out of bounds. As a matter of fact I'm surprised they are not more frequent in the credit industry.

Credit is just another term for a loan. Would we feel it out of bounds for a mortgage company to ask for tax records and pay stubs? Most would consider this standard procedure. Not sure why people get so ruffled over a credit card FR.

As long as you are truthful with them (and were truthful on your app) you should have nothing to fear...

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:22:34 GMT

@Dw4250 wrote:
Maybe I have a different opinion on this but I do not think an FR is at all out of bounds. As a matter of fact I'm surprised they are not more frequent in the credit industry.

Credit is just another term for a loan. Would we feel it out of bounds for a mortgage company to ask for tax records and pay stubs? Most would consider this standard procedure. Not sure why people get so ruffled over a credit card FR.

As long as you are truthful with them (and were truthful on your app) you should have nothing to fear...

Three reasons why people get ruffled!

1) It is NOT the standard practice. If all the ccs did it, then of course people would be more accepting. But when it is primarily just one....

2) Amounts are generally a lot less than involved in a mortgage. I'm prepared to put up with much more hassle getting a $300K loan than a $300 one (even if you can argue that the bigger one is secured so the risk to the lender is less, I am still asking for much more money)

3) In Amex case, it is not at the time of application, where it might seem more normal. It comes in the context "You may have done something bad, and we will close your cards unless you can show that you haven't'. You usually don't get demands for tax forms from your mortgage company in year 10 of your mortgage.

Re: AMEX Financial Review

sean23 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:44:25 GMT

In my opinion, the people that are most upset by this are the people that "fudged" or "over-estimated" income on their credit card applications. Everyone can claim that its "so intrusive" etc, but credit card statements and bank statements are much more personal in nature, yet everyone is so much more willing to give up this info than a tax return that shows overall financial picture. So its fishy to me that this causes some people to get so defensive.. The other thing is that people act like they have some RIGHT to dictate the terms of the credit line when they are asked for tax forms. Again, you knew what you were in for when you signed up the card, the credit card companies don't owe you anything, you owe them! I think tax forms should be a requirement for ALL credit applications. I see so many people on these forums that have ridiculous amounts of credit without the income to back it up. This is why so many people cant dig themselves out of the holes they put themselves into. If it wasnt for irresponsible customers that cant manage their credit and ended up abusing their credit lines and defaulting or going into bankruptcy , companies wouldnt need to ever conduct financial reviews. And I say this as someone who has been irresponsible in the past, so I speak from experience. Financial Reviews protect the lenders, and they protect irresponsible customers from getting in over their heads. If that doesnt apply to you, then a financial review should not really bother you at all.

As far as mortgages go- im sure the reaon that more poeple are more accepting of supplying tax forms for mortgages is because they are submitted as part of the application, and they dont really have the opportunity to lie about their income in the first place.

This is all my own personal opinion. Just want to make that clear.

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Dw4250 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:47:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Dw4250 wrote:
Maybe I have a different opinion on this but I do not think an FR is at all out of bounds. As a matter of fact I'm surprised they are not more frequent in the credit industry.

Credit is just another term for a loan. Would we feel it out of bounds for a mortgage company to ask for tax records and pay stubs? Most would consider this standard procedure. Not sure why people get so ruffled over a credit card FR.

As long as you are truthful with them (and were truthful on your app) you should have nothing to fear...
Three reasons why people get ruffled!

1) It is NOT the standard practice. If all the ccs did it, then of course people would be more accepting. But when it is primarily just one....
2) Amounts are generally a lot less than involved in a mortgage. I'm prepared to put up with much more hassle getting a $300K loan than a $300 one (even if you can argue that the bigger one is secured so the risk to the lender is less, I am still asking for much more money)
3) In Amex case, it is not at the time of application, where it might seem more normal. It comes in the context "You may have done something bad, and we will close your cards unless you can show that you haven't'. You usually don't get demands for tax forms from your mortgage company in year 10 of your mortgage.

Good points Longtime. I do think the most important is #1...it's not SOP of other companies. But as we all know CCC close/freeze/AA accounts for all sorts of reasons (or no apparent reason!). I think the fact that AMEX gives the cardholder a chance to "defend themselves" before shutting the acct down is a better option than what other companies do (see Chase) where they just shut you down for who the hell knows why.

That being said I do see how it is a major pain in the rear end to comply, especially if you're a busy person highly dependent on AMEX accounts to get business done. My only point was I do think they have the right as a creditor to ask for this information.

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Closingracer99 — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:47:35 GMT

@sean23 wrote:
In my opinion, the people that are most upset by this are the people that "fudged" or "over-estimated" income on their credit card applications. Everyone can claim that its "so intrusive" etc, but credit card statements and bank statements are much more personal in nature, yet everyone is so much more willing to give up this info than a tax return that shows overall financial picture. So its fishy to me that this causes some people to get so defensive.. The other thing is that people act like they have some RIGHT to dictate the terms of the credit line when they are asked for tax forms. Again, you knew what you were in for when you signed up the card, the credit card companies don't owe you anything, you owe them! I think tax forms should be a requirement for ALL credit applications. I see so many people on these forums that have ridiculous amounts of credit without the income to back it up. This is why so many people cant dig themselves out of the holes they put themselves into. If it wasnt for irresponsible customers that cant manage their credit and ended up abusing their credit lines and defaulting or going into bankruptcy , companies wouldnt need to ever conduct financial reviews. And I say this as someone who has been irresponsible in the past, so I speak from experience. Financial Reviews protect the lenders, and they protect irresponsible customers from getting in over their heads. If that doesnt apply to you, then a financial review should not really bother you at all.

As far as mortgages go- im sure the reaon that more poeple are more accepting of supplying tax forms for mortgages is because they are submitted as part of the application, and they dont really have the opportunity to lie about their income in the first place.

This is all my own personal opinion. Just want to make that clear.

And your assuming the person had the same job the year before ... Bank Stubs offers a better picture of a persons current income

Re: AMEX Financial Review

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:54:54 GMT

@sean23 wrote:
In my opinion, the people that are most upset by this are the people that "fudged" or "over-estimated" income on their credit card applications. Everyone can claim that its "so intrusive" etc, but credit card statements and bank statements are much more personal in nature, yet everyone is so much more willing to give up this info than a tax return that shows overall financial picture. So its fishy to me that this causes some people to get so defensive.. The other thing is that people act like they have some RIGHT to dictate the terms of the credit line when they are asked for tax forms. Again, you knew what you were in for when you signed up the card, the credit card companies don't owe you anything, you owe them! I think tax forms should be a requirement for ALL credit applications. I see so many people on these forums that have ridiculous amounts of credit without the income to back it up. This is why so many people cant dig themselves out of the holes they put themselves into. If it wasnt for irresponsible customers that cant manage their credit and ended up abusing their credit lines and defaulting or going into bankruptcy , companies wouldnt need to ever conduct financial reviews. And I say this as someone who has been irresponsible in the past, so I speak from experience. Financial Reviews protect the lenders, and they protect irresponsible customers from getting in over their heads. If that doesnt apply to you, then a financial review should not really bother you at all.

As far as mortgages go- im sure the reaon that more poeple are more accepting of supplying tax forms for mortgages is because they are submitted as part of the application, and they dont really have the opportunity to lie about their income in the first place.

This is all my own personal opinion. Just want to make that clear.

Tax forms provide a different info from bank statements and pay stubs. Apart from the case I keep mentioning of filing jointly where the other person has no interest in the credit card, there is also dependent information, exemption info (spouse is blind for example) and investment information (which you may have chosen not to include in the app).

Just because you don't have or see any privacy concern does not mean that anyone who does is doing something wrong. Compare with "Let the police install cameras and mics in your house and monitor you 24 hours a day, if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear."

Re "This is all my own personal opinion. Just want to make that clear". What else might people think it was!