topic Re: another $175 AF PRG post in Credit Cards

another $175 AF PRG post

bigblue7722 — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 02:40:12 GMT

I have the PRG card cause it was a free pull for me. I just for the life of me cant figure out the $175 AF. Here is my reason behind it. First amex does not offer a cashback website like CSP. Second I understand its more of a travel/airline card but why would i get the PRG if i did fly a lot? It doesnt include checked bags or free club passes like say a chase united card. Theres got to be something im missing here. I know its a big spender card with no caps but the CSP has no caps and the AF is almost half as much. Chase marriott offers me a free night for $85 AF every year. I value the room around 300 bucks thats over a $200 dollar reward every year. The PRG does not offer anything like that. I like the amex offers a lot but they are the same for both my PRG and no AF BCE so it does not look like it matters there at all. I know it sounds like i hate amex and love chase, I really dont hate amex at all. I love the SP if declined HP if approved, 3x CLI, and amex offers, I just dont understand the AF on the PRG.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

Kenny — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 02:44:14 GMT

Preaching to the choir -- I don't understand the AF on the PRG, either. Have you had it for a while? I'd ditch it before AF becomes due.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

bigblue7722 — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 02:49:41 GMT

@KennyRS wrote:
Preaching to the choir -- I don't understand the AF on the PRG, either. Have you had it for a while? I'd ditch it before AF becomes due.

I applied for it on 8/3 lol. I still cant stop thinking about the AF. I am really trying to find ways to make it work because i love the way the card looks lol but man its tough. Even at 100 bucks a year i think its over priced. I will probably keep the CSP because i think i can make back the money with chase UR partners vs just a straight cash back card.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

irrational — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 02:49:42 GMT

@bigblue7722 wrote:
I have the PRG card cause it was a free pull for me. I just for the life of me cant figure out the $175 AF. Here is my reason behind it. First amex does not offer a cashback website like CSP. Second I understand its more of a travel/airline card but why would i get the PRG if i did fly a lot? It doesnt include checked bags or free club passes like say a chase united card. Theres got to be something im missing here. I know its a big spender card with no caps but the CSP has no caps and the AF is almost half as much. Chase marriott offers me a free night for $85 AF every year. I value the room around 300 bucks thats over a $200 dollar reward every year. The PRG does not offer anything like that. I like the amex offers a lot but they are the same for both my PRG and no AF BCE so it does not look like it matters there at all. I know it sounds like i hate amex and love chase, I really dont hate amex at all. I love the SP if declined HP if approved, 3x CLI, and amex offers, I just dont understand the AF on the PRG.

My take on it...

I love amex too, but I feel like their charge cards are a product from a different era. What kind of card charges an additional AF for AUers? Additionally the MR points are great if (as you said) you travel a lot... but what about the occasional traveler, or the guy who's interested in cash back... right now Amex has the latter category broken out into a seperate system from MR...

I really feel this is where Ultimate Rewards (and Chase) really shine. You can take a card like Freedom, earn URs, and if you feel like having cash you can have cash a 1 CPP - not 0.5 CPP like Amex. But, if that same person has the CSP, he can transfer those Freedom points to their CSP and then on to travel partners and earn even more than 1 CPP. The flexability (both up and down) is truly amazing.

Maybe if I was a hardcore traveler, and knew that 100% of my points were going to travel, I'd view it differently. Until then, I think Amex is letting Chase get the best of them on this one.

I think with the ED cards Amex is working in that direction... now they just need to address the Blue Cash vs EveryDay divide, and start valuing MR points at 1 CPP and do away with Blue Cash.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

Kenny — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 02:53:41 GMT

@bigblue7722 wrote:
@KennyRS wrote:
Preaching to the choir -- I don't understand the AF on the PRG, either. Have you had it for a while? I'd ditch it before AF becomes due.
I applied for it on 8/3 lol. I still cant stop thinking about the AF. I am really trying to find ways to make it work because i love the way the card looks lol but man its tough. Even at 100 bucks a year i think its over priced. I will probably keep the CSP because i think i can make back the money with chase UR partners vs just a straight cash back card.

Did you get it free for the first year?

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

Anonymous — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 03:38:56 GMT

@irrational wrote:
@bigblue7722 wrote:
I have the PRG card cause it was a free pull for me. I just for the life of me cant figure out the $175 AF. Here is my reason behind it. First amex does not offer a cashback website like CSP. Second I understand its more of a travel/airline card but why would i get the PRG if i did fly a lot? It doesnt include checked bags or free club passes like say a chase united card. Theres got to be something im missing here. I know its a big spender card with no caps but the CSP has no caps and the AF is almost half as much. Chase marriott offers me a free night for $85 AF every year. I value the room around 300 bucks thats over a $200 dollar reward every year. The PRG does not offer anything like that. I like the amex offers a lot but they are the same for both my PRG and no AF BCE so it does not look like it matters there at all. I know it sounds like i hate amex and love chase, I really dont hate amex at all. I love the SP if declined HP if approved, 3x CLI, and amex offers, I just dont understand the AF on the PRG.
My take on it...

I love amex too, but I feel like their charge cards are a product from a different era. What kind of card charges an additional AF for AUers? Additionally the MR points are great if (as you said) you travel a lot... but what about the occasional traveler, or the guy who's interested in cash back... right now Amex has the latter category broken out into a seperate system from MR...

I really feel this is where Ultimate Rewards (and Chase) really shine. You can take a card like Freedom, earn URs, and if you feel like having cash you can have cash a 1 CPP - not 0.5 CPP like Amex. But, if that same person has the CSP, he can transfer those Freedom points to their CSP and then on to travel partners and earn even more than 1 CPP. The flexability (both up and down) is truly amazing.

Maybe if I was a hardcore traveler, and knew that 100% of my points were going to travel, I'd view it differently. Until then, I think Amex is letting Chase get the best of them on this one.

I think with the ED cards Amex is working in that direction... now they just need to address the Blue Cash vs EveryDay divide, and start valuing MR points at 1 CPP and do away with Blue Cash.

I understand this, but doing 1c MR cashback (even if that is what UR offers) really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you are going cashback, there are much better cards. So yes, for flexibility it might be nice, but it wouldn't be sensible to use it that way really, so it's empty flexibility. (And lots of people already cash in MR at the low rate, so no incentive to fix!).

But I think the ED, and more especially the EDP, will take share from PRG, if and when enough people educate themselves. And having a free transfer card might even put pressure on the CSP, if the partners work for you, ED is in many ways a more valuable card than that.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

mongstradamus — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 03:42:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@irrational wrote:
@bigblue7722 wrote:
I have the PRG card cause it was a free pull for me. I just for the life of me cant figure out the $175 AF. Here is my reason behind it. First amex does not offer a cashback website like CSP. Second I understand its more of a travel/airline card but why would i get the PRG if i did fly a lot? It doesnt include checked bags or free club passes like say a chase united card. Theres got to be something im missing here. I know its a big spender card with no caps but the CSP has no caps and the AF is almost half as much. Chase marriott offers me a free night for $85 AF every year. I value the room around 300 bucks thats over a $200 dollar reward every year. The PRG does not offer anything like that. I like the amex offers a lot but they are the same for both my PRG and no AF BCE so it does not look like it matters there at all. I know it sounds like i hate amex and love chase, I really dont hate amex at all. I love the SP if declined HP if approved, 3x CLI, and amex offers, I just dont understand the AF on the PRG.
My take on it...

I love amex too, but I feel like their charge cards are a product from a different era. What kind of card charges an additional AF for AUers? Additionally the MR points are great if (as you said) you travel a lot... but what about the occasional traveler, or the guy who's interested in cash back... right now Amex has the latter category broken out into a seperate system from MR...

I really feel this is where Ultimate Rewards (and Chase) really shine. You can take a card like Freedom, earn URs, and if you feel like having cash you can have cash a 1 CPP - not 0.5 CPP like Amex. But, if that same person has the CSP, he can transfer those Freedom points to their CSP and then on to travel partners and earn even more than 1 CPP. The flexability (both up and down) is truly amazing.

Maybe if I was a hardcore traveler, and knew that 100% of my points were going to travel, I'd view it differently. Until then, I think Amex is letting Chase get the best of them on this one.

I think with the ED cards Amex is working in that direction... now they just need to address the Blue Cash vs EveryDay divide, and start valuing MR points at 1 CPP and do away with Blue Cash.
I understand this, but doing 1c MR cashback (even if that is what UR offers) really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you are going cashback, there are much better cards. So yes, for flexibility it might be nice, but it wouldn't be sensible to use it that way really, so it's empty flexibility. (And lots of people already cash in MR at the low rate, so no incentive to fix!).

But I think the ED, and more especially the EDP, will take share from PRG, if and when enough people educate themselves. And having a free transfer card might even put pressure on the CSP, if the partners work for you, ED is in many ways a more valuable card than that.

People really underestimate ED card, its the only non af card out there that can transfer to airline partners and hotel partners. Chase doesn't have one of those cards, neither does citi.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

Josh2942 — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 04:31:35 GMT

Dont even get me started on ridiculous amex annual fees. The gold and the green dont make any sense and they will be canceled. I only keep my CSP and Hyatt. I value the free night at 200 minimul and I value the CSP 1:1 transfer ability making it worth the AF for me. AMEX not even close

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

370Z — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 04:39:27 GMT

It's very simple. Spend 30k+ to get the 15k bonus, which is worth more than the AF if redeemed for travel.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

wHiTeSoL — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 05:59:28 GMT

Here is one thing to consider that I didn't when I first got these cards. I ran out of gas twice this year and got a flat once, of course the first thing I did was call the CSP line. They could send someone out right away to help me out: at $70-$80 each time. I hung up and called AMEX, they covered all three times for free under the PRG.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

Anonymous — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 06:18:53 GMT

Wow... I didn't know American Express added fees to card without warning!

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

irrational — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:55:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@irrational wrote:
@bigblue7722 wrote:
I have the PRG card cause it was a free pull for me. I just for the life of me cant figure out the $175 AF. Here is my reason behind it. First amex does not offer a cashback website like CSP. Second I understand its more of a travel/airline card but why would i get the PRG if i did fly a lot? It doesnt include checked bags or free club passes like say a chase united card. Theres got to be something im missing here. I know its a big spender card with no caps but the CSP has no caps and the AF is almost half as much. Chase marriott offers me a free night for $85 AF every year. I value the room around 300 bucks thats over a $200 dollar reward every year. The PRG does not offer anything like that. I like the amex offers a lot but they are the same for both my PRG and no AF BCE so it does not look like it matters there at all. I know it sounds like i hate amex and love chase, I really dont hate amex at all. I love the SP if declined HP if approved, 3x CLI, and amex offers, I just dont understand the AF on the PRG.
My take on it...

I love amex too, but I feel like their charge cards are a product from a different era. What kind of card charges an additional AF for AUers? Additionally the MR points are great if (as you said) you travel a lot... but what about the occasional traveler, or the guy who's interested in cash back... right now Amex has the latter category broken out into a seperate system from MR...

I really feel this is where Ultimate Rewards (and Chase) really shine. You can take a card like Freedom, earn URs, and if you feel like having cash you can have cash a 1 CPP - not 0.5 CPP like Amex. But, if that same person has the CSP, he can transfer those Freedom points to their CSP and then on to travel partners and earn even more than 1 CPP. The flexability (both up and down) is truly amazing.

Maybe if I was a hardcore traveler, and knew that 100% of my points were going to travel, I'd view it differently. Until then, I think Amex is letting Chase get the best of them on this one.

I think with the ED cards Amex is working in that direction... now they just need to address the Blue Cash vs EveryDay divide, and start valuing MR points at 1 CPP and do away with Blue Cash.
I understand this, but doing 1c MR cashback (even if that is what UR offers) really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you are going cashback, there are much better cards. So yes, for flexibility it might be nice, but it wouldn't be sensible to use it that way really, so it's empty flexibility. (And lots of people already cash in MR at the low rate, so no incentive to fix!).

But I think the ED, and more especially the EDP, will take share from PRG, if and when enough people educate themselves. And having a free transfer card might even put pressure on the CSP, if the partners work for you, ED is in many ways a more valuable card than that.

I think that was part of the point I was trying to make. It feels like the MR cards rely too heavily on the fact that they're true value comes from travel partners. For example;

PRG earns 2x on Gas and Groceries. We've esthalished that is is equivalent to 1% CB, so let's compare to a few other cards:

Amex's own BCP earns 3% on gas, and 6% on groceries.

Barclay's SM card earns 5% on those two categories as well.

Now, the PRG's true value comes in when you transfer to partners... But, what do you value MR points at? Given a 2 CPP valuation, the PRG is only 4% card. Still best by both of those above examples )depending on spending patterns), and this particular 4% card MUST be redeemed for specific travel... Not flexible at all!

Now, compare that to Chase's UR:

Chase Freedom earned me 5x on Gas for half the year, 5x on restaurants for a quarter, and 5x for Amazon next quarter. Taking cash, this yields me a 5% back card....Transfering through CSP to partners only gets sweeter!

Or, the CSP earns 2x in dinning and travel. For cash that's 2%, for travel at 2 CPP that's the same 4% as PRG (though, in less valuable categories for most people), for half the AF.

What I think Amex should have done is revalue MR at 1 CPP for cash, and revamped the BCE & BCP cards to earn MRe, but continue to advertise them as CB cards the way Freedom is advertised.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

jamesdwi — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:03:24 GMT

@bigblue7722 wrote:
I have the PRG card cause it was a free pull for me. I just for the life of me cant figure out the $175 AF. Here is my reason behind it. First amex does not offer a cashback website like CSP. Second I understand its more of a travel/airline card but why would i get the PRG if i did fly a lot? It doesnt include checked bags or free club passes like say a chase united card. Theres got to be something im missing here. I know its a big spender card with no caps but the CSP has no caps and the AF is almost half as much. Chase marriott offers me a free night for $85 AF every year. I value the room around 300 bucks thats over a $200 dollar reward every year. The PRG does not offer anything like that. I like the amex offers a lot but they are the same for both my PRG and no AF BCE so it does not look like it matters there at all. I know it sounds like i hate amex and love chase, I really dont hate amex at all. I love the SP if declined HP if approved, 3x CLI, and amex offers, I just dont understand the AF on the PRG.

The PRG is the amex card i recommend because it has the best benefits and no AF for the first year and you set your membership date for free with an easily obtainable card, if you travel enough consider the platinum, if you don't down grade the PRG after the first year to senior green or green if you can justify the AF. Or if you have a revolver by then drop the card after the first year if you don't want a charge card.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

bigblue7722 — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:09:08 GMT

@irrational wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@irrational wrote:
@bigblue7722 wrote:
I have the PRG card cause it was a free pull for me. I just for the life of me cant figure out the $175 AF. Here is my reason behind it. First amex does not offer a cashback website like CSP. Second I understand its more of a travel/airline card but why would i get the PRG if i did fly a lot? It doesnt include checked bags or free club passes like say a chase united card. Theres got to be something im missing here. I know its a big spender card with no caps but the CSP has no caps and the AF is almost half as much. Chase marriott offers me a free night for $85 AF every year. I value the room around 300 bucks thats over a $200 dollar reward every year. The PRG does not offer anything like that. I like the amex offers a lot but they are the same for both my PRG and no AF BCE so it does not look like it matters there at all. I know it sounds like i hate amex and love chase, I really dont hate amex at all. I love the SP if declined HP if approved, 3x CLI, and amex offers, I just dont understand the AF on the PRG.
My take on it...

I love amex too, but I feel like their charge cards are a product from a different era. What kind of card charges an additional AF for AUers? Additionally the MR points are great if (as you said) you travel a lot... but what about the occasional traveler, or the guy who's interested in cash back... right now Amex has the latter category broken out into a seperate system from MR...

I really feel this is where Ultimate Rewards (and Chase) really shine. You can take a card like Freedom, earn URs, and if you feel like having cash you can have cash a 1 CPP - not 0.5 CPP like Amex. But, if that same person has the CSP, he can transfer those Freedom points to their CSP and then on to travel partners and earn even more than 1 CPP. The flexability (both up and down) is truly amazing.

Maybe if I was a hardcore traveler, and knew that 100% of my points were going to travel, I'd view it differently. Until then, I think Amex is letting Chase get the best of them on this one.

I think with the ED cards Amex is working in that direction... now they just need to address the Blue Cash vs EveryDay divide, and start valuing MR points at 1 CPP and do away with Blue Cash.
I understand this, but doing 1c MR cashback (even if that is what UR offers) really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you are going cashback, there are much better cards. So yes, for flexibility it might be nice, but it wouldn't be sensible to use it that way really, so it's empty flexibility. (And lots of people already cash in MR at the low rate, so no incentive to fix!).

But I think the ED, and more especially the EDP, will take share from PRG, if and when enough people educate themselves. And having a free transfer card might even put pressure on the CSP, if the partners work for you, ED is in many ways a more valuable card than that.

I think that was part of the point I was trying to make. It feels like the MR cards rely too heavily on the fact that they're true value comes from travel partners. For example;

PRG earns 2x on Gas and Groceries. We've esthalished that is is equivalent to 1% CB, so let's compare to a few other cards:

Amex's own BCP earns 3% on gas, and 6% on groceries.
Barclay's SM card earns 5% on those two categories as well.

Now, the PRG's true value comes in when you transfer to partners... But, what do you value MR points at? Given a 2 CPP valuation, the PRG is only 4% card. Still best by both of those above examples )depending on spending patterns), and this particular 4% card MUST be redeemed for specific travel... Not flexible at all!

Now, compare that to Chase's UR:

Chase Freedom earned me 5x on Gas for half the year, 5x on restaurants for a quarter, and 5x for Amazon next quarter. Taking cash, this yields me a 5% back card....Transfering through CSP to partners only gets sweeter!

Or, the CSP earns 2x in dinning and travel. For cash that's 2%, for travel at 2 CPP that's the same 4% as PRG (though, in less valuable categories for most people), for half the AF.

What I think Amex should have done is revalue MR at 1 CPP for cash, and revamped the BCE & BCP cards to earn MRe, but continue to advertise them as CB cards the way Freedom is advertised.

now thats a good idea!

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

DawgZ — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 13:49:09 GMT

You really don't believe these sign up bonus cards are free do you?

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

mongstradamus — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 13:52:53 GMT

@wHiTeSoL wrote:
Here is one thing to consider that I didn't when I first got these cards. I ran out of gas twice this year and got a flat once, of course the first thing I did was call the CSP line. They could send someone out right away to help me out: at $70-$80 each time. I hung up and called AMEX, they covered all three times for free under the PRG.

is it free with PRG or is it under road side assistance for all amex card just curious.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

Anonymous — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:03:13 GMT

not sure about all amex cards but I believe the prg and platinum cover up to 4 roadside assistance cases/year

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

CreditJim — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 14:17:49 GMT

I love my Amex PRG for the year that I've had it. So far this year I've managed to put over 30k of spending through it between me and my AU (wife) so I got the bonus 15k miles but with the AF due in Oct, I'm going to cancel it. Really don't want to but can't justify the AF when I have a revolver with Amex now (SPG) that I want to concentrate my spending on for a dream vacation. I realize I need to not be emotionally attached to a product!

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

mongstradamus — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 15:52:03 GMT

@CreditJim wrote:
I love my Amex PRG for the year that I've had it. So far this year I've managed to put over 30k of spending through it between me and my AU (wife) so I got the bonus 15k miles but with the AF due in Oct, I'm going to cancel it. Really don't want to but can't justify the AF when I have a revolver with Amex now (SPG) that I want to concentrate my spending on for a dream vacation. I realize I need to not be emotionally attached to a product!

I would try to pick up the no af ED to house your MR points and possibly accumulate some more at reduced rate.

Re: another $175 AF PRG post

ezdoesit — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 16:15:26 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@CreditJim wrote:
I love my Amex PRG for the year that I've had it. So far this year I've managed to put over 30k of spending through it between me and my AU (wife) so I got the bonus 15k miles but with the AF due in Oct, I'm going to cancel it. Really don't want to but can't justify the AF when I have a revolver with Amex now (SPG) that I want to concentrate my spending on for a dream vacation. I realize I need to not be emotionally attached to a product!
I would try to pick up the no af ED to house your MR points and possibly accumulate some more at reduced rate.

While the ED is nice I think the EDP is a much better card providing you can make the 30 swipes per month. SInce I have gotten it I have no trouble doing that.

4.5x groceries, 3x gas the AF is $95 but if your just make the groceries cap that is 27k. Plus transfer those points to possibly earn more than .06.

I had the PRG once the EDP came out it made the PRG worthless to me. Amex made a mistake by overlapping categories between the two IMO.