topic Re: How is EMV chip safer? in Credit Cards

How is EMV chip safer?

Skye12329 — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:03:21 GMT

My CSP card just arrived and i must say its heavy, like i didnt think it was going to be so heavy. (Just so excited) Turns out it did require a signature luckily i got to my front apartment complex door in time because UPS just got there too. (My buzzer system doesnt work)

My question: How is this technology safer? I understand its supposed to be chip and signature but what makes it safer? Because isnt it like a regular signature then? I can understand chip and pin because that would be like a debit card basically needing a pin.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

trumpet-205 — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:06:24 GMT

Because it is fundamentally different than magnetic strip. Magnetic strip contains you credit card info in plaintext. It can be copied and use as is.

EMV chip is actually a mini-sized computer. When you insert it into the terminal they communicate with each other using encryption (so no one should be able to listen in or copy).

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

Skye12329 — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:12:34 GMT

Thanks! Now i have a random question, why are the logos for Visa like a dove or eagle like symbol and MC is a world? Just curious if anyone knew.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

juggalo9er — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:37:57 GMT

yes chip and pin is very secure, i could duplicate it myself!

http://thehackernews.com/2014/05/pre-play-vulnerability-allows-chip-and.html

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

trumpet-205 — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:38:39 GMT

@Skye12329 wrote:
Thanks! Now i have a random question, why are the logos for Visa like a dove or eagle like symbol and MC is a world? Just curious if anyone knew.

It is a security feature in attempt to distinguish between real and cloned card. The idea is you to hand the card to cashiers and they look for this feature plus cross checking signature you signed on the back of the card and on the receipt.

In reality it doesn't work because,

* Most cashier won't ask you to hand over the card.

* Professional thief have the equipment stamp these fake holograms onto cloned card.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

Skye12329 — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:39:40 GMT

Oh yeah it would never work. Maybe it did back when it was first started but yeah cashiers never get my cards.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

trumpet-205 — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:49:12 GMT

@juggalo9er wrote:
yes chip and pin is very secure, i could duplicate it myself!
http://thehackernews.com/2014/05/pre-play-vulnerability-allows-chip-and.html

Please take the time to read the article. It explains that the flaw exists from faulty implementation, not faulty EMV specification.

Also, all EMV attack that researchers came up with either hinges on faulty implementation or compromised terminal. Magnetic strip on the other hand can simply be skimmed without a need of a compromised terminal.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

slicemans — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:49:51 GMT

Anything is better than magnetc strip. Heck even RFID is better mag strip.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

juggalo9er — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 21:46:22 GMT

@trumpet-205 wrote:
@juggalo9er wrote:
yes chip and pin is very secure, i could duplicate it myself!
http://thehackernews.com/2014/05/pre-play-vulnerability-allows-chip-and.html
Please take the time to read the article. It explains that the flaw exists from faulty implementation, not faulty EMV specification.

Also, all EMV attack that researchers came up with either hinges on faulty implementation or compromised terminal. Magnetic strip on the other hand can simply be skimmed without a need of a compromised terminal.

your exactly right! on that note nothing in public is ever compromised like wifi,pay per view from cable companies, private security systems, and the list could go on. there is no such thing as complete security as information can always be cloned and compromised. i will agree chip is slightly more secure than magnetic strip but when your starting at close to 0, its not hard to get better!

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 22:16:28 GMT

@slicemans wrote:
Anything is better than magnetc strip. Heck even RFID is better mag strip.

But they have both chips and strips, sooooooo.... Where is the safety? Or am I missing something?

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

Closingracer99 — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 22:24:19 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@slicemans wrote:
Anything is better than magnetc strip. Heck even RFID is better mag strip.

But they have both chips and strips, sooooooo.... Where is the safety? Or am I missing something?

You arent using the strip if your using EMV or RFID

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 22:29:12 GMT

@Closingracer99 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@slicemans wrote:
Anything is better than magnetc strip. Heck even RFID is better mag strip.

But they have both chips and strips, sooooooo.... Where is the safety? Or am I missing something?
You arent using the strip if your using EMV or RFID

Yes, but isn't Walmart the only retailer that only uses the chip right now? The 99.9% of other places are still using the strip. Granted the consumer gets to self swipe more nowadays but not everywhere. Skimming is still a very real problem as long as the strip is on back.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 22:47:53 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Closingracer99 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@slicemans wrote:
Anything is better than magnetc strip. Heck even RFID is better mag strip.

But they have both chips and strips, sooooooo.... Where is the safety? Or am I missing something?
You arent using the strip if your using EMV or RFID
Yes, but isn't Walmart the only retailer that only uses the chip right now? The 99.9% of other places are still using the strip. Granted the consumer gets to self swipe more nowadays but not everywhere. Skimming is still a very real problem as long as the strip is on back.

Yes, at the moment it doesn't really increase safety, but as chip usage spreads that goes away. And it can spread pretty quickly, as in the UK, where now only foreign cards get swiped.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

Jerry45 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 00:50:58 GMT

Because the swipers on the credit/debit machines are being hacked easily. That is what happened to Target and Jewel Osco

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

jamesdwi — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 01:02:34 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@slicemans wrote:
Anything is better than magnetc strip. Heck even RFID is better mag strip.

But they have both chips and strips, sooooooo.... Where is the safety? Or am I missing something?

the reader can tell if the card has the chip, and will reject the card if you try swiping it, when everyone has the new readers that understand the chip, having the information from the strip makes a copy of your card useless, except for online that has no reader. But then the creditor has more options on authenicating the purchase, two factor, where they can send you a email, text message with a code you have to enter, also can compare the ship to address with your home address, ask you a security question, or any number of things that won't be possible with card reader in a store.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 01:13:25 GMT

@jamesdwi wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@slicemans wrote:
Anything is better than magnetc strip. Heck even RFID is better mag strip.

But they have both chips and strips, sooooooo.... Where is the safety? Or am I missing something?
the reader can tell if the card has the chip, and will reject the card if you try swiping it, when everyone has the new readers that understand the chip, having the information from the strip makes a copy of your card useless, except for online that has no reader. But then the creditor has more options on authenicating the purchase, two factor, where they can send you a email, text message with a code you have to enter, also can compare the ship to address with your home address, ask you a security question, or any number of things that won't be possible with card reader in a store.

Well, for instance, my AMEX can't be swiped in Wal-Mart because their reader wont allow it due to the fact they have the chip reader. But in my local grocery store it can be swiped. So really, it is encoded 2 ways and the swipe way can be easily stolen. Until a good percentage of companies get the technology and remove the swiping strip off the cards, it is just as vulnerable... Chip aint doing a thing. Except when traveling in Europe, I suppose.

Re: How is EMV chip safer?

Closingracer99 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 03:54:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Closingracer99 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@slicemans wrote:
Anything is better than magnetc strip. Heck even RFID is better mag strip.

But they have both chips and strips, sooooooo.... Where is the safety? Or am I missing something?
You arent using the strip if your using EMV or RFID
Yes, but isn't Walmart the only retailer that only uses the chip right now? The 99.9% of other places are still using the strip. Granted the consumer gets to self swipe more nowadays but not everywhere. Skimming is still a very real problem as long as the strip is on back.

Naaa there is a thread going on somewhere i think FT? I googled EMV chips and some places in NYC accept it. Walmart is probably the only big corp using it right now though