topic Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real in Credit Cards

Amex Can't See Me, for real

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:51:14 GMT

So, I just applied to my 2nd Amex ["worthless" BCE, for purely backdating purposes, spare me the Sallie Mae lecture, I KNOW!]. Approved, of course, never a doubt in my mind, so no congrats needed, either. The nervous wracking Amex application was the one three months ago [I did not know if I was still blacklisted, I had included them in BK 8 years ago, never payed them a dime of that].

Anyway, the only worthy thing about the BCE is the $100 bonus. I had to apply incognito in order to see a bonus offer. The screen now says that I could get the bonus if I do my part, but in the fine print also says that "if we identify you as a member you MAY not be eligible." I think I will, but I will confirm when the card arrives.

What I find perplexing is why doesn't Amex know I am a member? The first email they send me is like they have never sent me hundreds of emails before at that very address. They give me instructions to set up my account at their website, like I don't have one already. Why?

With the info on my application, their incredibly powerful computers should be able to easily match me to a member they already have, ME. Who else has my social security number, who else has my phone number, who else has my email address?!? It's all absurd that this stealth thing works. It shouldn't, right? What am I missing?!?

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Burned2manybridgesB4 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:57:29 GMT

If you've never had the BCE before, you'll get the bonus.

If you're logged in while apping, it's instantaneous recognition, where doing the manual app (what I do non-incognito) with the general fill out isn't recognized until it's processed, which they then recognize anyways. They know, one way or another....

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:57:12 GMT

No, never had it. And I believe you are right!

However, my question is why does going stealth work? It shouldn't. Why can Amex figure out it's me? I am giving them EVERY ID CLUE!

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Burned2manybridgesB4 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:58:29 GMT

They'll tag your account with internet addresses used, and computer ID's, like your phone, pad, laptop...blah blah blah..

@Anonymous wrote:

No, never had it. And I believe you are right!

However, my question is why does going stealth work? It shouldn't. Why can Amex figure out it's me? I am giving them EVERY ID CLUE!

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:59:18 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

With the info on my application, their incredibly powerful computers should be able to easily match me to a member they already have, ME. Who else has my social security number, who else has my phone number, who else has my email address?!? It's all absurd that this stealth thing works. It shouldn't, right? What am I missing?!?

I don't think you are missing anything. It is indeed surprising that the stealth method works. Is it shoddy programming (probably) or deliberate, leaving a back door (why?)

What is interesting is that some of the more ethically driven people here don't mind using stealth to get the bonus. Not sure why that passes the moral filter when other things don't!

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Burned2manybridgesB4 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:59:59 GMT

I'll give you an example..using chrome browser. Non-incognito....

Sign into your account, peek around, sign out, then go to amex site/list all cards...it'll identify all your cards/add someone??

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:02:19 GMT

@Burned2manybridgesB4 wrote:
I'll give you an example..using chrome browser. Non-incognito....

Sign into your account, peek around, sign out, then go to amex site/list all cards...it'll identify all your cards/add someone??

This is just cookie stuff. OPs question isn't "Why can they tell it is me [sometimes]", it's more "Why can't they [sometimes] when they have my SSN"

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

heyarrnold — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:06:47 GMT

@Burned2manybridgesB4 wrote:
I'll give you an example..using chrome browser. Non-incognito....

Sign into your account, peek around, sign out, then go to amex site/list all cards...it'll identify all your cards/add someone??

Cooookiiiesssssss lol. That's the only way they know. They can't, for example, guarantee that only one user is logging in based off of IP and MAC address alone. If you're in a public library applying for a card, it would be incorrect to blacklist that computer because others have logged on to the Amex website with that same IP/MAC address.

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Burned2manybridgesB4 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:04:17 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

With the info on my application, their incredibly powerful computers should be able to easily match me to a member they already have, ME. Who else has my social security number, who else has my phone number, who else has my email address?!? It's all absurd that this stealth thing works. It shouldn't, right? What am I missing?!?

I don't think you are missing anything. It is indeed surprising that the stealth method works. Is it shoddy programming (probably) or deliberate, leaving a back door (why?)

What is interesting is that some of the more ethically driven people here don't mind using stealth to get the bonus. Not sure why that passes the moral filter when other things don't!

I've never stealthed, and have gotten back to back delta signups...I think it's just that specific card, not the "group" as far as signup bonuses go.

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:07:11 GMT

longtimelurker wrote:

I don't think you are missing anything. It is indeed surprising that the stealth method works. Is it shoddy programming (probably) or deliberate, leaving a back door (why?)
What is interesting is that some of the more ethically driven people here don't mind using stealth to get the bonus. Not sure why that passes the moral filter when other things don't!

I am puzzled by your ethics angle. Where is the unethical part? We ain't lying! We are telling them EXACTLY who we are, with numerous identifiers, it is Amex who is refusing to recognize us, for some reason.

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Burned2manybridgesB4 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:10:23 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
longtimelurker wrote:
I don't think you are missing anything. It is indeed surprising that the stealth method works. Is it shoddy programming (probably) or deliberate, leaving a back door (why?)
What is interesting is that some of the more ethically driven people here don't mind using stealth to get the bonus. Not sure why that passes the moral filter when other things don't!

I am puzzled by your ethics angle. Where is the unethical part? We ain't lying! We are telling them EXACTLY who we are, with numerous identifiers, it is Amex who is refusing to recognize us, for some reason.

Ethics are like undies...everyone has their own..

I game the system for rewards. I'm not ashamed of it.

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

mongstradamus — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:12:26 GMT

@Burned2manybridgesB4 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

With the info on my application, their incredibly powerful computers should be able to easily match me to a member they already have, ME. Who else has my social security number, who else has my phone number, who else has my email address?!? It's all absurd that this stealth thing works. It shouldn't, right? What am I missing?!?

I don't think you are missing anything. It is indeed surprising that the stealth method works. Is it shoddy programming (probably) or deliberate, leaving a back door (why?)

What is interesting is that some of the more ethically driven people here don't mind using stealth to get the bonus. Not sure why that passes the moral filter when other things don't!
I've never stealthed, and have gotten back to back delta signups...I think it's just that specific card, not the "group" as far as signup bonuses go.

It depends on the "customer" you are I guess, for my personal example. If i am in incognito mode i will see prg 25k offer , if i am "signed in" I get no signup offer at all. There are other cards i get same signup offer as the public offer. For example both everyday cards and spg, i get standard offers that is the same as public offer.

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:18:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
longtimelurker wrote:
I don't think you are missing anything. It is indeed surprising that the stealth method works. Is it shoddy programming (probably) or deliberate, leaving a back door (why?)
What is interesting is that some of the more ethically driven people here don't mind using stealth to get the bonus. Not sure why that passes the moral filter when other things don't!

I am puzzled by your ethics angle. Where is the unethical part? We ain't lying! We are telling them EXACTLY who we are, with numerous identifiers, it is Amex who is refusing to recognize us, for some reason.

Oh, it's not me, my barrier is low (or high): if it's not criminal (or is, but with a very low probability of getting caught ) then it's ok.

But others don't like what they view as gaming the system (e.g. MS, signing up for bonuses and dumping etc, "guiding" lenders to a particular CR, with perhaps fewer inqs than there should be, etc). To me, stealth more or less falls into the same camp. It is taking advantage of something that appears to be wrong, and which should be fixed but isn't. But it tends to get a pass.

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Burned2manybridgesB4 — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:22:35 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@Burned2manybridgesB4 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

With the info on my application, their incredibly powerful computers should be able to easily match me to a member they already have, ME. Who else has my social security number, who else has my phone number, who else has my email address?!? It's all absurd that this stealth thing works. It shouldn't, right? What am I missing?!?

I don't think you are missing anything. It is indeed surprising that the stealth method works. Is it shoddy programming (probably) or deliberate, leaving a back door (why?)

What is interesting is that some of the more ethically driven people here don't mind using stealth to get the bonus. Not sure why that passes the moral filter when other things don't!
I've never stealthed, and have gotten back to back delta signups...I think it's just that specific card, not the "group" as far as signup bonuses go.
It depends on the "customer" you are I guess, for my personal example. If i am in incognito mode i will see prg 25k offer , if i am "signed in" I get no signup offer at all. There are other cards i get same signup offer as the public offer. For example both everyday cards and spg, i get standard offers that is the same as public offer.

In my case, I had the delta plat (work), gold 1st- met signup bonus spend 35k (I think), then PC'd to the HH, then immediately apped for the plain delta, for another 5k on 1st spend.

*edit: I did get spend/bonus on the HH too....

Re: Amex Can't See Me, for real

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:30:18 GMT

longtimelurker wrote:

Oh, it's not me, my barrier is low (or high): if it's not criminal (or is, but with a very low probability of getting caught ) then it's ok.
But others don't like what they view as gaming the system (e.g. MS, signing up for bonuses and dumping etc, "guiding" lenders to a particular CR, with perhaps fewer inqs than there should be, etc). To me, stealth more or less falls into the same camp. It is taking advantage of something that appears to be wrong, and which should be fixed but isn't. But it tends to get a pass.

Yep, I could see the parallels with MS. That's another thing that credit cards could easily stop or at least they could make it way more complicated, yet, for some reason, they don't do it. Why? They must think that the status quo benefits them somehow. So, apparently it should be nobody's business and everybody should be happy,...