topic Re: AMEX FR Curiosity in Credit Cards

AMEX FR Curiosity

Jaylima91 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 16:05:44 GMT

Hello fellow myFico users,

i am curious to see what the actual percentage of cardholders that have been hit this "notorious" FR by Amex. It seems to me that it isn't common and the percentage that actually go through this is under 2%.

I'm sure the main reason why we see a lot of FR threads is because of the fact that this is a Credit Forum where members can post about their concerns as well. I'm sure it's like general customer service surveys, nobody posts positive feedback on those surveys, only when you're mad at that company that you post negative feedback. lol. I'm sure it's the same way with the FR threads.

How many FRs have actually occured this year and what has triggered "skiddish" amex to initiate a FR?

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

MACFRME — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 16:19:00 GMT

I got FR'd by AmEx last week because I tried to transfer money to myself using Square. I wanted to do a BT to my AmEx card for the 0%, but they wouldn't let me, so I tried using my Square account. Square asked for documents and so did AmEx. Word of advice to others: just don't do it. It is not worth the drama. The rep said that I should not use Paypal, Square, or any other payment aggregator service in the future because they will be monitoring my account for it.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Open123 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 16:29:39 GMT

Very few people are ever flagged for Financial Reviews. The best advice is to not worry about it and use your cards as intended.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Jaylima91 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 16:32:10 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
Very few people are ever flagged for Financial Reviews. The best advice is to not worry about it and use your cards as intended.

Oh I am not worried. I use my card all the time. i was just curious to know the statistics

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 18:01:20 GMT

I've read a lot of wild stories about Amex, and I think they're all overblown. For the first couple of months after I got my Amex Green, I didn't use it at Walmart because of all the stories about cardholders getting FR'd or their accounts closed after shopping there. Since then, for the past 6 months, I've used it literally almost every day at Walmart on my way home from work without any negative effects (knock on wood). I've also used the card to buy a half dozen gift cards ($100-$200 ranges) and to pay a dozen ebay merchants via paypal. Also put a several thousand dollar transaction on the card 4 months in (which was waaay outside my spending pattern), which I was sure would trigger an FR, but nope.

Maybe I don't fit into the demographic of those who typically get FR'd. For example, maybe only those with revolvers and/or six-figure reported incomes/high limits are more easily targeted. Amex probably doesn't care about peons like me.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Open123 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 18:08:51 GMT

Pure speculation here, but I suspect fewer than 1% ever get FR'ed.

The triggers appear to be:

1. Cash-like transactions that appear to have a high correlation with potential fraud and money-laundering activities, e.g. loading GCs, paypal, amazon payments, serve, etc...

2. Expenditures far exceeding reported income.

3. Multiple AUs with no apprarent relation to the Basic cardmember.

4. AUs spending far more than Basic cardmember.

5. CR changes.

6. Suspect payment history, e.g. bill pay from 3rd party owners and 3rd party checks.

7. Obvious instances of pyramiding debt.

8. Internal scores.

9. Too many Amex apps in a short time.

10. Strategic BK score.

Obviously, internal Amex metrics aren't public information. The above is just what I've noticed over the years on purported reasons by those posting on public forums, which may or may not be true. After all, everything we read on the net should always be taken with a healthy grain of salt.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 18:32:42 GMT

I totally agree with the FR being over blown here. I love these forums for many reasons but the paranoia about amex FR on here kills me. I have had no problems. (Yet) no one I know has had problems yet I now can't help but be somewhat paranoid and cautious because of all the posting. I love amex and as many others have stated if you are honest, use the card as intended what's to worry about?

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Jaylima91 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:09:03 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
Pure speculation here, but I suspect fewer than 1% ever get FR'ed.

The triggers appear to be:

1. Cash-like transactions that appear to have a high correlation with potential fraud and money-laundering activities, e.g. loading GCs, paypal, amazon payments, serve, etc...
2. Expenditures far exceeding reported income.
3. Multiple AUs with no apprarent relation to the Basic cardmember.
4. AUs spending far more than Basic cardmember.
5. CR changes.
6. Suspect payment history, e.g. bill pay from 3rd party owners and 3rd party checks.
7. Obvious instances of pyramiding debt.
8. Internal scores.
9. Too many Amex apps in a short time.
10. Strategic BK score.

Obviously, internal Amex metrics aren't public information. The above is just what I've noticed over the years on purported reasons by those posting on public forums, which may or may not be true. After all, everything we read on the net should always be taken with a healthy grain of salt.Let

Do you think that if one of my other CC from another CCC is reporting at 15% UTIL and then jumps to about 40% UTIL one month that would cause an FR from amex? Or would it have to be Maxed out on my cards?

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Open123 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:12:44 GMT

@Jaylima91 wrote:
Do you think that if one of my other CC from another CCC is reporting at 15% UTIL and then jumps to about 40% UTIL one month that would cause an FR from amex? Or would it have to be Maxed out on my cards?

If it were just one card, no.

Even if your aggregate utility were to reach, say, 70%, Amex would need more than just that to initiate a FR. It would have to be in conjunction with other factors, such as a late payment, income uncertainty, and internal risk metrics.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Jaylima91 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:14:40 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@Jaylima91 wrote:
Do you think that if one of my other CC from another CCC is reporting at 15% UTIL and then jumps to about 40% UTIL one month that would cause an FR from amex? Or would it have to be Maxed out on my cards?
If it were just one card, no.

Even if your aggregate utility were to reach, say, 70%, Amex would need more than just that to initiate a FR. It would have to be in conjunction with other factors, such as a late payment, income uncertainty, and internal risk metrics.

Makes sense

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:27:43 GMT

One thing I've learned about Amex, history with them goes a long way. If its a positive history it can make up for a lot of things. I wouldn't over stress it just use the card and enjoy. I wouldn't recommend over spending on gift cards. That seems to spark it.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:30:03 GMT

@purebulldogs500 wrote:
One thing I've learned about Amex, history with them goes a long way. If its a positive history it can make up for a lot of things. I wouldn't over stress it just use the card and enjoy. I wouldn't recommend over spending on gift cards. That seems to spark it.

Again, YMMV on gift cards, depends on the Amex card too it seems.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:38:06 GMT

Yeah a long time cardholder prob wouldn't have too much problem even with gift cards.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

red259 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:58:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@purebulldogs500 wrote:
One thing I've learned about Amex, history with them goes a long way. If its a positive history it can make up for a lot of things. I wouldn't over stress it just use the card and enjoy. I wouldn't recommend over spending on gift cards. That seems to spark it.
Again, YMMV on gift cards, depends on the Amex card too it seems.

I bought one $500 gc with my amex spg and I'd like to buy another one this cycle so I can use it towards my loan payments, but these forumns have made me paranoid about using the spg card in this way.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:04:00 GMT

If the 500 went through without issue you prob wont have much of a problem. New cardholders seem to be at more risk from what I've seen.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Anonymous — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:04:50 GMT

@red259 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@purebulldogs500 wrote:
One thing I've learned about Amex, history with them goes a long way. If its a positive history it can make up for a lot of things. I wouldn't over stress it just use the card and enjoy. I wouldn't recommend over spending on gift cards. That seems to spark it.
Again, YMMV on gift cards, depends on the Amex card too it seems.
I bought one $500 gc with my amex spg and I'd like to buy another one this cycle so I can use it towards my loan payments, but these forumns have made me paranoid about using the spg card in this way.

Yes, people have specifically mentioned the SPG as being dangerous for this. I don't have the card (and so haven't used it for this!) I would expect $1000 to be way below the threshold, but I understand the induced paranoia!

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Open123 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:21:22 GMT

Anecdotally, from all the boards I've frequented, it seems as if the SPG and Business Gold cards have the highest reported cases of FRs.

However, this could simply be because most potential "perk abusers" tend to apply SPG and Business Gold cards given the high bonuses, 12 month churnability and first year fee waivers. So, just by nature of demand for SPG and MR points in these particular cards, an expected higher number of FRs would ensue for these particular cards, given the spirit in which these cards were acquired.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

nmac — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:51:49 GMT

The gift card paranoia with amex that gets repeated aground here is so over blown. There was even a post recently where a forum member was paranoid about $.50 gift card purchases from amazon to make the required transactions for the everyday card. IMHO this is insane. Amex doesn’t do FR for $.50 transactions.

My first amex was the PRG, at the time I opened it my income was 24K and my fico was in the mid 600’s. My first transaction was a $504.95 gift card purchase from a grocery store. I’ve also purchased hundreds of dollars of gift cards from gas stations on it. More recently I open the EDP card and I very regularly purchase 100-400 dollars of gift cards a month from grocery stores. I even bought a $600 TV from amazon using gift cards purchased from a grocery store. I also use amazon payments quite a bit with my EDP as the funding source. I’m not even going to get into what I do with my serve account but let just say it gets plenty of use and amex is obviously aware of what takes place there.

Moral of the story: Pay amex in full every month and they will let you get away with rewards murder.

Sorry if this if this sounds crass but the amount of FR paranoia around here is unwarranted. I’m also not suggesting that someone should do all of the things I mentioned above. I’m simply sharing experience in an attempt dissuade some of the FR paranoia around here. I’m also willing to bet that of the remarkably small number of people who have been through a FR, purchasing gift cards at the levels suggested by most of the people here is not the likely cause.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

Callandra — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 21:25:44 GMT

@nmac wrote:

Sorry if this if this sounds crass but the amount of FR paranoia around here is unwarranted. I’m also not suggesting that someone should do all of the things I mentioned above. I’m simply sharing experience in an attempt dissuade some of the FR paranoia around here. I’m also willing to bet that of the remarkably small number of people who have been through a FR, purchasing gift cards at the levels suggested by most of the people here is not the likely cause.

How is the Amex FR paranoia any different than some of the other paranoia around here (ie- Barclays)? People freak out about being CLD'd or their accounts closed of Barclays and granted, I haven't read the whole 75+ page thread, but I doubt there are few if any cases of it. I opened my Freedom 5 months after Barclay and it's been 4 months since and NOTHING. I think half these stories don't tell the full story (ie- there's something else on their reports that spooked the bank, you know, like 90% util or newly appeared lates, etc) and the users on myFico cannot represent significant amount of credit card users in general in any way, shape, or form.

I have a system for my credit cards.

1. I buy stuff.

2. I pay the bill in full.

3. Rinse and repeat every month.

I do not forsee having any problem with any bank in the future.

Re: AMEX FR Curiosity

nmac — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 21:41:55 GMT

@Callandra wrote:
@nmac wrote:

Sorry if this if this sounds crass but the amount of FR paranoia around here is unwarranted. I’m also not suggesting that someone should do all of the things I mentioned above. I’m simply sharing experience in an attempt dissuade some of the FR paranoia around here. I’m also willing to bet that of the remarkably small number of people who have been through a FR, purchasing gift cards at the levels suggested by most of the people here is not the likely cause.
How is the Amex FR paranoia any different than some of the other paranoia around here (ie- Barclays)? People freak out about being CLD'd or their accounts closed of Barclays and granted, I haven't read the whole 75+ page thread, but I doubt there are few if any cases of it. I opened my Freedom 5 months after Barclay and it's been 4 months since and NOTHING. I think half these stories don't tell the full story (ie- there's something else on their reports that spooked the bank, you know, like 90% util or newly appeared lates, etc) and the users on myFico cannot represent significant amount of credit card users in general in any way, shape, or form.

I have a system for my credit cards.

1. I buy stuff.
2. I pay the bill in full.
3. Rinse and repeat every month.

I do not forsee having any problem with any bank in the future.

I agree the Barclaycard paranoia is also exaggerated. I don’t have a Barclaycard product so I guess it doesn’t irk me like the amex paranoia.