topic Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity. in Credit Cards

All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:29:03 GMT

So I've managed to not apply for any cards for a while now (been over 6 months)...

Been extremely busy as well so I've not checked this forums and also any sign up promos too.

And I've gotten into a mess again lately.

The new M4 came out, and I decided to lease it since a dealership in Socal gave me a really good price.

I kinda need a (excuse for a) second car since my Lexus IS was eventually classified as totalled and my lease was paid off by insurance earlier this year.

I went for it, and requested the dealership pull Experian ONLY.

The manager agreed, but I eventually ended up with 1 inquiry on each bureau by the dealership. Was a little unhappy, but not a big deal since it's not out of the ordinary.

Eventually, BMW did their own inquiry, but they pulled EX only, which is good.

I was approved for the lease, and took posession of the vehicle. Lease account showed up earlier than I expected on my CR, but everything was fine.

Now for the stupid part.

Apparently when I was signing the lease documents, the dealership had signed me up for some BMW credit card as well.

I didn't even know about it until BMW pulled an additional inquiry at a later date, under BMW Bank (address: PO BOX 9210, OLD BETHPAGE NY 11804. tel: (801) 461-6528) and reported the new account about a week after my lease account reported.

Chase, Amex and several other lenders all did soft inquiries during each of these inquiries and new accounts reporting.

It was on the next business day after my BMW credit card started reporting that all of my Chase cards are closed again.

I called BMW, and they said dealers sometimes "combo" this in to help customers "maximize rewards and take full advantage of their BMW experience". Needless to say, I was pissed. I called the dealership, and they said its normal practice. Well, when I got my auto loans at another BMW dealerships, this never happened, so I honestly didn't expect this.i

So right now, I've been talking to Chase, and they wouldn't reopen the accounts immediately. I explained it's pretty much done without my permission. They said once BMW removes the inquiry and account, they can then review my accounts again for reopening. No promises it will be opened though.

On the sorta "bright" side, BMW financial services is removing the new account and 1 of the inquiries, but it will take 4-8 weeks for it to show up on my CR.

Sorry for the rant. I'm feeling pretty stupid right now for not reading through the entire lease documentation thoroughly.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

09Lexie — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:42:29 GMT

Wow! I feel like you must be tired of this back and forth with Chase. Was your utilization high or were you still on time out from last time?

By the way... Welcome back!

Eta: I'm on my second lease in 9 mos with BMWFS and the credit card never came up as a 'combo'.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:46:26 GMT

@09Lexie wrote:
Wow! I feel like you must be tired of this back and forth with Chase. Was your utilization high or were you still on time out from last time?

By the way... Welcome back!

Yea it's getting very irritating.

My utilization is about 6% currently, after factoring the balance on my Amex charge card into the utilization calculations.

I'm just on time out from last time. I almost applied for Cartier financing back in August too, but didn't go through with it in the end since I was just being greedy about the 0% which I didn't really need, and I guess it's sorta good that I didn't went with it?

I really didn't want to add any sort of retail credit cards to my CR till next year, and this happens. I'll call them 2 more times to plead my case after the account and inquiry is removed. Hopefully Chase will reinstate my accounts, otherwise I'll just re-apply in the future.

To add:
I know! I had applied for 2 BMW loans - both paid off now, but New Century BMW never signed me up for this 'combo'. This time round, I went with Valencia BMW, because they gave me a much better quote as New Century wasn't willing to budge on discounting the M4 and wanted a markup instead.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

09Lexie — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:47:49 GMT

Were you able to transfer your points?

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:54:58 GMT

The last time round they closed my cards, i was still able to transfer my points out to Hyatt while the accounts were closed. I received letters from Chase stating that I had 90 days to redeem / transfer the points, before the points are forfeited.

This time round, I haven't tried, but I am guessing the same rules apply so it shouldn't be an issue. I don't have that many points left in UR anyways.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

lg8302ch — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:55:54 GMT

I can't believe this.... Chase is crazy.. ..they give you such high CLs and a number of their top tier cards and just because of a new credit card they freak out and close all your accounts??? Really sorry to hear and hope Chase comes to reason and can reopen the accounts. BMW card against all Chase cards is an awful deal

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

09Lexie — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 08:01:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The last time round they closed my cards, i was still able to transfer my points out to Hyatt while the accounts were closed. I received letters from Chase stating that I had 90 days to redeem / transfer the points, before the points are forfeited.

This time round, I haven't tried, but I am guessing the same rules apply so it shouldn't be an issue. I don't have that many points left in UR anyways.

Once you get the TL and Inq removed you should be fine. I can't recall how long your timeout was for but perhaps a phone call to lending services before the lease may have helped.

I know Im laying even lower now.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Skye12329 — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 08:03:35 GMT

Why would 1 CC account scare them though? Like any ideas?

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 08:11:01 GMT

@09Lexie wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
The last time round they closed my cards, i was still able to transfer my points out to Hyatt while the accounts were closed. I received letters from Chase stating that I had 90 days to redeem / transfer the points, before the points are forfeited.

This time round, I haven't tried, but I am guessing the same rules apply so it shouldn't be an issue. I don't have that many points left in UR anyways.
Once you get the TL and Inq removed you should be fine. I can't recall how long your timeout was for but perhaps a phone call to lending services before the lease may have helped.

I know Im laying even lower now.

The last time my accounts were closed were early / mid March.

The lady from EO who helped me specifically stated that they just didn't want me acquiring new credit cards and inquiries. I thought 6 months down the road, I'd be safe with just a lease (or ONE credit card). When the lease account was reporting, Chase did SP along with other lenders, but everything was fine.

When the new credit card started reporting however, Chase obviously didn't like it at all. And to think I was contemplating whether I should apply for cards at the end of this year / early next year. Guess I'm laying low until all my inquiries from 2013 fall off regardless of whether Chase reopens my account.

@Skye12329 wrote:
Why would 1 CC account scare them though? Like any ideas?

Because I have already opened too many too quickly.

Chase said I opened over 16 accounts over the span of 2 years, accumulated too much revolving credit over a short period of time and also had too many inquiries (had 15 then).

@lg8302ch wrote:
I can't believe this.... Chase is crazy.. ..they give you such high CLs and a number of their top tier cards and just because of a new credit card they freak out and close all your accounts??? Really sorry to hear and hope Chase comes to reason and can reopen the accounts. BMW card against all Chase cards is an awful deal

I don't think they care whether I have the palladium or the slate. As long as they are exposed, they freak out when something goes "wrong" in their eyes.

I looked through the BMW card details again. Card is quite the joke........I'd have rather have my accounts closed over the Cartier card than this BMW card.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Skye12329 — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 08:14:02 GMT

Sad day I guess that is a lot of accounts in 2 years time. However at the same time i dont see that as too many accounts. As for too much revolving credit i guess i can see their POV but as long as your a responsible customer is there really a risk?

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 08:18:49 GMT

@Skye12329 wrote:
Sad day I guess that is a lot of accounts in 2 years time. However at the same time i dont see that as too many accounts. As for too much revolving credit i guess i can see their POV but as long as your a responsible customer is there really a risk?

I brought this up many times to Chase.

To them, the credit extended to me is unsecured, which means if I default on them, they pretty much lose every single cent. They didn't care about how much I have in the bank account with them or with any other bank, nor do they care about the fact that I have several properties that are already paid off and free.

I can understand from their standpoint, but at the same time, I am also pretty frustrated about it.

@Laddi,

7k CL on the BMW card.

Doesn't matter even if they gave me a higher CL. That card is about as horrible as WF rewards program.

And they are pretty stingy when it comes to limits so this card won't even "grow" much over time.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Skye12329 — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 08:22:21 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Skye12329 wrote:
Sad day I guess that is a lot of accounts in 2 years time. However at the same time i dont see that as too many accounts. As for too much revolving credit i guess i can see their POV but as long as your a responsible customer is there really a risk?
I brought this up many times to Chase.
To them, the credit extended to me is unsecured, which means if I default on them, they pretty much lose every single cent. They didn't care about how much I have in the bank account with them or with any other bank, nor do they care about the fact that I have several properties that are already paid off and free.

I can understand from their standpoint, but at the same time, I am also pretty frustrated about it.

Im a little confused about the unsecured credit part. Cant everyone technically default on a loan or CC, but the company would just send it to collections how would they lose money besides the fact of not paying the collection. I guess the term unsecured is new to me so thats what im wondering about.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 08:26:45 GMT

@Skye12329 wrote:
Im a little confused about the unsecured credit part. Cant everyone technically default on a loan or CC, but the company would just send it to collections how would they lose money besides the fact of not paying the collection. I guess the term unsecured is new to me so thats what im wondering about.

Unsecured debt is any debt that isn't backed by a collateral.

When you default on a auto loan or mortgage, they repo the car / property, and thereby minimize their losses (or even make a profit if you had more equity than what you owed the bank).

When you default on a credit card or any unsecured debt, the lender is usually screwed. They can sell the debt to collection companies, but they usually get pennies for each dollar owed in return. If you have assets, then the lender can also sue you in court to recover their money, but most people whom default on CC debts usually do not have any or much assets left. Or they can always file for BK and the banks are still screwed then.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 08:47:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I went for it, and requested the dealership pull Experian ONLY.
The manager agreed, but I eventually ended up with 1 inquiry on each bureau by the dealership. Was a little unhappy, but not a big deal since it's not out of the ordinary.
Eventually, BMW did their own inquiry, but they pulled EX only, which is good.
I was approved for the lease, and took posession of the vehicle. Lease account showed up earlier than I expected on my CR, but everything was fine.

Now for the stupid part.
Apparently when I was signing the lease documents, the dealership had signed me up for some BMW credit card as well.
I didn't even know about it until BMW pulled an additional inquiry at a later date, under BMW Bank (address: PO BOX 9210, OLD BETHPAGE NY 11804. tel: (801) 461-6528) and reported the new account about a week after my lease account reported.
Chase, Amex and several other lenders all did soft inquiries during each of these inquiries and new accounts reporting.

This is just ANOTHER story that convinces me, even more, than frezen credit reports is a legitimate defensive tactic to protect your credit profile. I know FICO Moderators don't want to hear this, because they apparently are immune to the problems of regular credit seekers, but this is not a question of taking advantage of the system. There are way too many instances of potential lenders who promise certain things HP wise, then they do the opposite and you are the one that ends up with a mess. And sometimes the mess is more difficult to clean than in this instance or the victim of the mess suffers a bigger blow if their credit profile is weak, as opposed to the OP.

If the OP had frozen his accounts, then unfrozen EX for the lease, then froze it again, none of this would have happened. Why should we surrender control of our credit profile to the good faith or competence of lenders that only care about their own interest? I think there is a clear difference between using freezing to manipulate applications vs to prevent abuse by lenders that don't honor their word, that many times doen't even know what they are doing and/or don't care. Well, i care, dammit!.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:05:11 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

This is just ANOTHER story that convinces me, even more, than frezen credit reports is a legitimate defensive tactic to protect your credit profile. I know FICO Moderators don't want to hear this, because they apparently are immune to the problems of regular credit seekers, but this is not a question of taking advantage of the system. There are way too many instances of potential lenders who promise certain things HP wise, then they do the opposite and you are the one that ends up with a mess. And sometimes the mess is more difficult to clean than in this instance or the victim of the mess suffers a bigger blow if their credit profile is weak, as opposed to the OP.
If the OP had frozen his accounts, then unfrozen EX for the lease, then froze it again, none of this would have happened. Why should we surrender control of our credit profile to the good faith or competence of lenders that only care about their own interest? I think there is a clear difference between using freezing to manipulate applications vs to prevent abuse by lenders that don't honor their word, that many times doen't even know what they are doing and/or don't care. Well, i care, dammit!.

My EX is actually frozen most of the time.

I unfroze it for 2 weeks just so BMW could pull it. I cant be bothered enough to pay the fees and freeze TU / EQ only to pay the fees again to unfreeze it, since most lenders in CA pull EX and I don't have much inquiries on EQ and TU to start with, so there's little damage done when lenders pull from those bureaus.

However, the dealership caught me off guard this time round. I had auto loans with BMW in the past and never had this issue before, so I didn't expect this to happen. I was expecting 2 inquiries on EX (1 by dealership, 1 by BMW), but I ended up with 3 because of this stupid app that pulled the additional inquiry on day 14th. Had BMW processed it a day later, they wouldn't have been able to pull it.

But even if they pulled EQ / TU, my Chase accounts would still be closed when the new account eventually reports on all 3 bureaus.

To add:
Maybe I'll just keep EX frozen permanently from now on and give lenders one-time use PINs when they want to pull my reports. I have never tried using that method before though so I don't really know how it works, and I was just worried about it being a hassle.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

09Lexie — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:50:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

I went for it, and requested the dealership pull Experian ONLY.
The manager agreed, but I eventually ended up with 1 inquiry on each bureau by the dealership. Was a little unhappy, but not a big deal since it's not out of the ordinary.
Eventually, BMW did their own inquiry, but they pulled EX only, which is good.
I was approved for the lease, and took posession of the vehicle. Lease account showed up earlier than I expected on my CR, but everything was fine.

Now for the stupid part.
Apparently when I was signing the lease documents, the dealership had signed me up for some BMW credit card as well.
I didn't even know about it until BMW pulled an additional inquiry at a later date, under BMW Bank (address: PO BOX 9210, OLD BETHPAGE NY 11804. tel: (801) 461-6528) and reported the new account about a week after my lease account reported.
Chase, Amex and several other lenders all did soft inquiries during each of these inquiries and new accounts reporting.

This is just ANOTHER story that convinces me, even more, than frezen credit reports is a legitimate defensive tactic to protect your credit profile. I know FICO Moderators don't want to hear this, because they apparently are immune to the problems of regular credit seekers, but this is not a question of taking advantage of the system. There are way too many instances of potential lenders who promise certain things HP wise, then they do the opposite and you are the one that ends up with a mess. And sometimes the mess is more difficult to clean than in this instance or the victim of the mess suffers a bigger blow if their credit profile is weak, as opposed to the OP.

If the OP had frozen his accounts, then unfrozen EX for the lease, then froze it again, none of this would have happened. Why should we surrender control of our credit profile to the good faith or competence of lenders that only care about their own interest? I think there is a clear difference between using freezing to manipulate applications vs to prevent abuse by lenders that don't honor their word, that many times doen't even know what they are doing and/or don't care. Well, i care, dammit!.

Obviously, you did not understand the comments I posted previously about freezing CRs. To be clear, freezing CRs for your protection, to stop you from app'ing, to stop unwarranted or fraudulent pulls is not against myFICO's TOS. Although, in this case, apparently the app was not based on fraud but was a sales agent pushing through paperwork and the OP didn't read or didn't ask about the documents he signed.

I have said it before and perhaps you missed it because you are either new to the board or clearly have an axe to grind with the Moderators but my own CRs have a FA due to identity theft from years ago.

In the future, you might want to ensure that when you state something that you 'know' that it is actually based on factual evidence.

edit: typo/clarity

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:17:44 GMT

Well, since this breeze and unfreezing has been a "forbidden topic" here, I know little about the fees involved and how much flexibility and speed you have to freeze and unfreeze reports. That's why it should be part of an well educated credit forum. I just think we need to know the credit tools available, to prevent abuse, which in my case this freezing thing would have totally worked, and which tools don't work or shlouldn't be used, but the answer shouldn't be "we can't talk about that." Is this a Credit forum or the Medieval Times Church forum?

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

09Lexie — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:24:04 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Well, since this breeze and unfreezing has been a "forbidden topic" here, I know little about the fees involved and how much flexibility and speed you have to freeze and unfreeze reports. That's why it should be part of an well educated credit forum. I just think we need to know the credit tools available, to prevent abuse, which in my case this freezing thing would have totally worked, and which tools don't work or shlouldn't be used, but the answer shouldn't be "we can't talk about that." Is this a Credit forum or the Medieval Times Church forum?

Again, the topic of freezing your credit reports is not off limits. Almost every thread on gardening or the General Credit board frequently talks about freezing your credit reports to prevent yourself from apping. Since you are new maybe you have not read the different threads or may not have understood the difference between enharu's application and those who have several derogs onEX and EQ and freeze them so a lender must pull TU.

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:46:05 GMT

@09Lexie wrote:
Obviously, you did not understand the comments I posted previously about freezing CRs. To be clear, freezing CRs for your protection, to stop you from app'ing, to stop unwarranted or fraudulent pulls is not against myFICO's TOS. Although, in this case, apparently the app was not based on fraud but was a sales agent pushing through paperwork and the OP didn't read or didn't ask about the documents he signed.

I have said it before and perhaps you missed it because you are either new to the board or clearly have an axe to grind with the Moderators but my own CRs have a FA due to identity theft from years ago.

In in the future,you might want to ensure that when state something that you 'know' that it is based on factual evidence.

Sorry to get in between, but like Lexie said, this situation is mostly my fault. I should have read the whole thing. Was a little to excited to be able to find a M4 with the options I wanted for the most part AND to get it at a discount.

I just went through all the docs that I signed again and didn't see any credit app. The F&I manager didn't make a copy of that. I'm pretty sure he signed me up for this 'combo' deal because he gets commissions off it. Got to make money somehow I suppose, especially since I turned down all the 'addons' that he tried to push (tire protection, excess wear and tear, etc).

The only app I filled up was for the lease, so BMW most likely used the info on my lease app for the credit card decision.

Anyways, I learned my lesson now. Luckily, BMW is being nice about it and they are willing to remove both the inquiry and new account. My brother's waiting for the Lexus RC to be released. I've warned him about the whole fiasco since it may also be a problem for him too as Lexus also has their own credit cards. Hopefully this can help others as well.

And sorry for having to read my rant

Re: All Chase cards closed again thanks to BMW dealership and my stupidity.

TheClub — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 11:51:59 GMT

Quick question... Why does Chase keep closing all of your accounts? That's really not a common practice of theirs.. Or is it?