topic Re: Amex BCE Payments in Credit Cards

Amex BCE Payments

Firehorse — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:35:47 GMT

Does Amex only let you pay once per month? I tend to PIF as I go on my cards. I made one payment with Amex and now I don't have an option to pay a second time. I really don't want a balance reported.

Thanks!

Re: Amex BCE Payments

SunriseEarth — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:38:18 GMT

@Firehorse wrote:
Does Amex only let you pay once per month? I tend to PIF as I go on my cards. I made one payment with Amex and now I don't have an option to pay a second time. I really don't want a balance reported.

Thanks!

For the first month, you can only pay once. If you need to pay it down, you may have to push the payment from your bank.

Anecdotally, AMEX prefers one big payment to many smaller payments, but I'm not sure how true that is.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Firehorse — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:41:21 GMT

That's just silly. I've used debit cards for so long I'm not used to having a balance on my CC. I treat them like debit cards too. Keeps me disiplined. Boo!

Re: Amex BCE Payments

b_diddy — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:42:35 GMT

I have certainly paid more than once during a cycle but don't recall if I tried that the first month out.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

red259 — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:49:46 GMT

You would have to do a push payment. There are lots of stories of lenders taking AA action against people for making multiple payments per month. My view of this is that the AA is not a result of the multiple payments, but because the people that are running up their cards and paying down suddenly may be spending at a rate that looks to be beyond their means. Also, it is considered suspicious due to money laundering etc. I try to limit myself to two payments a cycle if possible. I've had cards with lower limits where I had to make multiple payments each month and it did not cause a problem. I just wouldn't be doing so with high overal credit util across all cards. Obviously Amex is going to be more wary of new accounts with no history vs accounts that have been with them for awhile.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Firehorse — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:50:23 GMT

Force push from Billpay it is then... Set up. Ready to go just before the statement close.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Firehorse — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:00:04 GMT

@red259 wrote:
You would have to do a push payment. There are lots of stories of lenders taking AA action against people for making multiple payments per month. My view of this is that the AA is not a result of the multiple payments, but because the people that are running up their cards and paying down suddenly may be spending at a rate that looks to be beyond their means. Also, it is considered suspicious due to money laundering etc. I try to limit myself to two payments a cycle if possible. I've had cards with lower limits where I had to make multiple payments each month and it did not cause a problem. I just wouldn't be doing so with high overal credit util across all cards. Obviously Amex is going to be more wary of new accounts with no history vs accounts that have been with them for awhile.

This perspective just seems crazy to me and makes no sense. Paying it down looks like you are beyond your means? Who are these people? LOL! What difference is it if I PIF at once or do it in increments? I get the laundering perspective though but jeez...

I usually limit to two as well. But I'm getting used to using it in place of debit to get my bonus. So ironic, I was worried to NOT keep paying it because I didn't want to look like I was about to max it out in the first month.

** edit your vs. you're (makes me crazy if it's wrong)

Re: Amex BCE Payments

SunriseEarth — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:02:48 GMT

@Firehorse wrote:
That's just silly. I've used debit cards for so long I'm not used to having a balance on my CC. I treat them like debit cards too. Keeps me disiplined. Boo!

It's a switch, I agree. I was debit/checkcard only for a while too. Someimes I have to switch CCs, just to make sure I don't let (too much of) a balance post.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

red259 — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:08:54 GMT

@Firehorse wrote:
@red259 wrote:
You would have to do a push payment. There are lots of stories of lenders taking AA action against people for making multiple payments per month. My view of this is that the AA is not a result of the multiple payments, but because the people that are running up their cards and paying down suddenly may be spending at a rate that looks to be beyond their means. Also, it is considered suspicious due to money laundering etc. I try to limit myself to two payments a cycle if possible. I've had cards with lower limits where I had to make multiple payments each month and it did not cause a problem. I just wouldn't be doing so with high overal credit util across all cards. Obviously Amex is going to be more wary of new accounts with no history vs accounts that have been with them for awhile.
This perspective just seems crazy to me and makes no sense. Paying it down looks like you are beyond your means? Who are these people? LOL! What difference is it if I PIF at once or do it in increments? I get the laundering perspective though but jeez...

I usually limit to two as well. But I'm getting used to using it in place of debit to get my bonus. So ironic, I was worried to NOT keep paying it because I didn't want to look like I was about to max it out in the first month.

** edit your vs. you're (makes me crazy if it's wrong)

Well they don't know you and here is one of the things lenders worry about. They worry about someone opening a credit card account, spending lots and lots of money and then paying it off right away. Showing heavy use and full payments in close proximity. Then that person seeks a CLI given their stellar history. Then that person maxes out the card and takes off leaving the lender holding the bag. I was just reading an article about this a few days ago where some lender was asked why thye get concerned about people who PIF frequently and that was one of the answers given. Also, someone maxing their card then PIF the following week could be seen as someone who is really living paycheck to paycheck and a lender will be worried what happens if that next paycheck is not there one day. In the end the people on this board who are focused on credit scores and rewards are not the norm and therefore lenders can get a bit spooked by our patterns sometimes if we have thin files. I'm not saying its fair I am just trying to show why they respond the way they do sometimes.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:28:48 GMT

@Firehorse wrote:
@red259 wrote:
You would have to do a push payment. There are lots of stories of lenders taking AA action against people for making multiple payments per month. My view of this is that the AA is not a result of the multiple payments, but because the people that are running up their cards and paying down suddenly may be spending at a rate that looks to be beyond their means. Also, it is considered suspicious due to money laundering etc. I try to limit myself to two payments a cycle if possible. I've had cards with lower limits where I had to make multiple payments each month and it did not cause a problem. I just wouldn't be doing so with high overal credit util across all cards. Obviously Amex is going to be more wary of new accounts with no history vs accounts that have been with them for awhile.
This perspective just seems crazy to me and makes no sense. Paying it down looks like you are beyond your means? Who are these people? LOL! What difference is it if I PIF at once or do it in increments? I get the laundering perspective though but jeez...

I usually limit to two as well. But I'm getting used to using it in place of debit to get my bonus. So ironic, I was worried to NOT keep paying it because I didn't want to look like I was about to max it out in the first month.

** edit your vs. you're (makes me crazy if it's wrong)

Not crazy logic to me. Think of it this way, do you think "people with money" micromanage their accounts like you do? Absolutely not. The only ones who micromanage their accounts are people with little money that are super responsible and want to be cautious. Bankers and their algorithms know this. So, it's best to behave like you have real money, until you have real money, for real!

Re: Amex BCE Payments

red259 — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:40:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Firehorse wrote:
@red259 wrote:
You would have to do a push payment. There are lots of stories of lenders taking AA action against people for making multiple payments per month. My view of this is that the AA is not a result of the multiple payments, but because the people that are running up their cards and paying down suddenly may be spending at a rate that looks to be beyond their means. Also, it is considered suspicious due to money laundering etc. I try to limit myself to two payments a cycle if possible. I've had cards with lower limits where I had to make multiple payments each month and it did not cause a problem. I just wouldn't be doing so with high overal credit util across all cards. Obviously Amex is going to be more wary of new accounts with no history vs accounts that have been with them for awhile.
This perspective just seems crazy to me and makes no sense. Paying it down looks like you are beyond your means? Who are these people? LOL! What difference is it if I PIF at once or do it in increments? I get the laundering perspective though but jeez...

I usually limit to two as well. But I'm getting used to using it in place of debit to get my bonus. So ironic, I was worried to NOT keep paying it because I didn't want to look like I was about to max it out in the first month.

** edit your vs. you're (makes me crazy if it's wrong)

Not crazy logic to me. Think of it this way, do you think people with money micromanage their accounts like you do? Absolutely not. The only ones who micromanage their accounts are people with little money that are super responsible and be cautious. Bankers and their algorithms know this. So, it's best to behave like you have real money, until you have real money, for real!

Well this is true to an extent. People who are not aggressively seeking cards all the time have no need to manage their util and instead have a couple of cards and tend to favor one card and pay the bill when it comes each month. However, the people on these boards are seeking new cards somewhat frequently and therefore have to stay much more on top of their util. It really does not have anything to do with who has "real money", but the lender can not be sure if someone is applying for lots of cards because they need the credit or just because they are chasing rewards etc.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Firehorse — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:43:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Firehorse wrote:
@red259 wrote:
You would have to do a push payment. There are lots of stories of lenders taking AA action against people for making multiple payments per month. My view of this is that the AA is not a result of the multiple payments, but because the people that are running up their cards and paying down suddenly may be spending at a rate that looks to be beyond their means. Also, it is considered suspicious due to money laundering etc. I try to limit myself to two payments a cycle if possible. I've had cards with lower limits where I had to make multiple payments each month and it did not cause a problem. I just wouldn't be doing so with high overal credit util across all cards. Obviously Amex is going to be more wary of new accounts with no history vs accounts that have been with them for awhile.
This perspective just seems crazy to me and makes no sense. Paying it down looks like you are beyond your means? Who are these people? LOL! What difference is it if I PIF at once or do it in increments? I get the laundering perspective though but jeez...

I usually limit to two as well. But I'm getting used to using it in place of debit to get my bonus. So ironic, I was worried to NOT keep paying it because I didn't want to look like I was about to max it out in the first month.

** edit your vs. you're (makes me crazy if it's wrong)

Not crazy logic to me. Think of it this way, do you think "people with money" micromanage their accounts like you do? Absolutely not. The only ones who micromanage their accounts are people with little money that are super responsible and want to be cautious. Bankers and their algorithms know this. So, it's best to behave like you have real money, until you have real money, for real!

I actually do have quite a bit but it's all for a down payment on a house. I mean I'm not a millionaire or anything with that kind of "real money." I believe that's your point. There are those that have financial disabilities that need to stay focused. I fall in that category and can get myself in trouble simply because I'm not paying attention. SO I must stay focused. But then I end up getting hyperfocused. Unfortunately, the model takes the bell curve and not the exception. I will play by their rules because I have no choice. It's just everytime I turn around there's something else that pops up. It's so frustrating.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:46:35 GMT

@red259 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Firehorse wrote:
@red259 wrote:
You would have to do a push payment. There are lots of stories of lenders taking AA action against people for making multiple payments per month. My view of this is that the AA is not a result of the multiple payments, but because the people that are running up their cards and paying down suddenly may be spending at a rate that looks to be beyond their means. Also, it is considered suspicious due to money laundering etc. I try to limit myself to two payments a cycle if possible. I've had cards with lower limits where I had to make multiple payments each month and it did not cause a problem. I just wouldn't be doing so with high overal credit util across all cards. Obviously Amex is going to be more wary of new accounts with no history vs accounts that have been with them for awhile.
This perspective just seems crazy to me and makes no sense. Paying it down looks like you are beyond your means? Who are these people? LOL! What difference is it if I PIF at once or do it in increments? I get the laundering perspective though but jeez...

I usually limit to two as well. But I'm getting used to using it in place of debit to get my bonus. So ironic, I was worried to NOT keep paying it because I didn't want to look like I was about to max it out in the first month.

** edit your vs. you're (makes me crazy if it's wrong)

Not crazy logic to me. Think of it this way, do you think people with money micromanage their accounts like you do? Absolutely not. The only ones who micromanage their accounts are people with little money that are super responsible and be cautious. Bankers and their algorithms know this. So, it's best to behave like you have real money, until you have real money, for real!

Well this is true to an extent. People who are not aggressively seeking cards all the time have no need to manage their util and instead have a couple of cards and tend to favor one card and pay the bill when it comes each month. However, the people on these boards are seeking new cards somewhat frequently and therefore have to stay much more on top of their util. It really does not have anything to do with who has "real money", but the lender can not be sure if someone is applying for lots of cards because they need the credit or just because they are chasing rewards etc.

What I said has nothing to do with controlling utility, something I do every single month. This has to do with the number of payments you make to control that utility. Don't pay several times. PIF once, just ONCE, just before statement cut, like the big boys, who care about their utility, do, and you are done. It's easy.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:52:22 GMT

@Firehorse wrote:
I actually do have quite a bit but it's all for a down payment on a house. I mean I'm not a millionaire or anything with that kind of "real money." I believe that's your point. There are those that have financial disabilities that need to stay focused. I fall in that category and can get myself in trouble simply because I'm not paying attention. SO I must stay focused. But then I end up getting hyperfocused. Unfortunately, the model takes the bell curve and not the exception. I will play by their rules because I have no choice. It's just everytime I turn around there's something else that pops up. It's so frustrating.

Unfortunately or FORTUNATELLY, the banks know little about your real financial situation, so they make educated guesses in their algorytms based on what most people who do this or that end up having or not having financial trouble. If you are before a shark and decide to behave like a delicous morsel...

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Firehorse — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 00:53:04 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Firehorse wrote:
I actually do have quite a bit but it's all for a down payment on a house. I mean I'm not a millionaire or anything with that kind of "real money." I believe that's your point. There are those that have financial disabilities that need to stay focused. I fall in that category and can get myself in trouble simply because I'm not paying attention. SO I must stay focused. But then I end up getting hyperfocused. Unfortunately, the model takes the bell curve and not the exception. I will play by their rules because I have no choice. It's just everytime I turn around there's something else that pops up. It's so frustrating.

Unfortunately or FORTUNATELLY, the banks know little about your real financial situation, so they make educated guesses in their algorytms based on what most people who do this or that end up having or not having financial trouble. If you are before a shark and decide to behave like a delicous morsel...

LOL!

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Firehorse — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 01:43:51 GMT

This topic is really helpful in trying to figure some things out.

So, what would be your suggestion when you use a card quite actively, want to PIF before the statement end, but still have pending transactions that could get posted as a balance?

I'm guessing stop the day before, add up what's posted with what's pending and then PIF for that amount...

Re: Amex BCE Payments

red259 — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 01:50:23 GMT

@Firehorse wrote:
This topic is really helpful in trying to figure some things out.

So, what would be your suggestion when you use a card quite actively, want to PIF before the statement end, but still have pending transactions that could get posted as a balance?

I'm guessing stop the day before, add up what's posted with what's pending and then PIF for that amount...

You may not be able to pay the full amount. In that case your would need to send a payment from your bank (push payment) which can take a few days. Best course of action is to stop spending a few days before so that the charges all clear through and then you can PIF all at once. Its a pain but the safest way to make sure a balance doesn't accidently report.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 02:29:17 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

What I said has nothing to do with controlling utility, something I do every single month. This has to do with the number of payments you make to control that utility. Don't pay several times. PIF once, just ONCE, just before statement cut, like the big boys, who care about their utility, do, and you are done. It's easy.

I would guess very few of the big boys pay before the statement cuts, that is also a sign of unusual behavior (and doesn't maximize one of the advantages of credit cards, the float). Most "normal" people pay their bill just once, close to the due date. Anything else, no matter how justified, can draw attention. I'm just a little surprised that you can criticize one (multiple payments) and not the other (early payment). Oh, one is what you do and the other isn't?

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Anonymous — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 02:35:00 GMT

One reason cited by some issuers (Citi and Amex to name names!) for not wanting to see multiple payments is to reduce MS. A lot of MS people try to spend a multiple of their CL each month, and of course can only do this by paying often. In the cases reported, Amex told one person to keep it to one CL per month (which is why I asked for a CLI!) , and Citi told another that if they continued to spend multiples, Citi might have to take action.

And with no evidence for this but anyway: I can imagine that issuer gives you a CL of X, on the belief that income etc supports spending up to $X a month, along with amounts on the other cards. If you start spending 2X or 3X, maybe they feel your income isn't sufficient to handle that.

Re: Amex BCE Payments

Firehorse — Fri, 03 Oct 2014 02:41:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
One reason cited by some issuers (Citi and Amex to name names!) for not wanting to see multiple payments is to reduce MS. A lot of MS people try to spend a multiple of their CL each month, and of course can only do this by paying often. In the cases reported, Amex told one person to keep it to one CL per month (which is why I asked for a CLI!) , and Citi told another that if they continued to spend multiples, Citi might have to take action.

And with no evidence for this but anyway: I can imagine that issuer gives you a CL of X, on the belief that income etc supports spending up to $X a month, along with amounts on the other cards. If you start spending 2X or 3X, maybe they feel your income isn't sufficient to handle that.

Now that made sense!

Although, if you are paying it. You seem to have it. I'm sure what it really comes down to is someone has abused the system and the rest of us have to pay the interest for it.