topic Re: Capital One can visit home/work place in Credit in the News

Capital One can visit home/work place

CreditMENA — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:49:22 GMT

Glad I'm not carrying one of their cards...per the LA times: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20140218,0,2211926.column#axzz2tgIMIJTS

"Ding-dong, Cap One calling.

Credit card issuer Capital One isn't shy about getting into customers' faces. The company recently sent a contract update to cardholders that makes clear it can drop by any time it pleases.

The update specifies that "we may contact you in any manner we choose" and that such contacts can include calls, emails, texts, faxes or a "personal visit.

As if that weren't creepy enough, Cap One says these visits can be "at your home and at your place of employment."

The police need a court order to pull off something like that. But Cap One says it has the right to get up close and personal anytime, anywhere.

Rick Rofman, 71, of Van Nuys received the contract update the other day. He was spooked by the visitation rights Cap One was claiming for itself.

"Even the Internal Revenue Service cannot visit you at home without an arrest warrant," Rofman observed.

Indeed, you'd think the 4th Amendment of the Constitution, which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, would make this sort of thing verboten.

Apparently not.

"It sounds really invasive, but I don't think it's a violation of your 4th Amendment rights," said Daniel E. Kann, a Santa Clarita lawyer who specializes in illegal-search cases.

He explained that the amendment applies primarily to searches and seizures by law enforcement, not civilians. A credit card company, in theory, could reserve the right to visit your home or office without a court order, Kann said.

But he emphasized that there are laws against harassment, not to mention stalking, and Cap One could be held accountable under such statutes if, say, it took to inviting itself over for dinner or hanging around your cubicle.

Incredibly, Cap One's aggressiveness doesn't stop with personal visits. The company's contract update also includes this little road apple:

"We may modify or suppress caller ID and similar services and identify ourselves on these services in any manner we choose."

Now that's just freaky. Cap One is saying it can trick you into picking up the phone by using what looks like a local number or masquerading as something it's not, such as Save the Puppies or a similarly friendly-seeming bogus organization.

This is known as spoofing, and it's perfectly legal. As I've written before, the federal Truth in Caller ID Act makes it a crime to use a phony number or caller ID message to commit fraud or cause harm to others.

But it's not against the law to engage in what courts have called "non-harmful spoofing," which includes businesses wearing digital disguises to penetrate a consumer's phone defenses.

Such corporate spoofing is employed primarily by telemarketers. It's weird, to say the least, for this practice to be so publicly adopted by a major credit card issuer.

Emily Rusch, executive director of the California Public Interest Research Group, a consumer advocacy organization, said it's especially troubling for Cap One to declare itself a spoofer as people grapple with recent security breaches involving Target, Neiman Marcus and other businesses.

"Now more than ever, consumers need to be able to trust companies," she said."

Ding Dong...it's Capital One at the door

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 06:32:45 GMT

While watching the news, I saw this report regarding Capital One's new contract.

The update specifies that "we may contact you in any manner we choose" and that such contacts can include calls, emails, texts, faxes or a "personal visit."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus-20140218,0,2211926.column#ixzz2teX88tGw

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:00:59 GMT

I read that article this morning. Very creepy. Makes me wish I could get my new cards I'm eyeing up now, so I can cancel these. I don't have or plan to have issues with them, but this kind of practice just gives me the willies.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

Exonumist — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:14:11 GMT

I don't think it's that big of a deal. There are already other businesses that will come to your door to collect. If you don't want them there tell them to leave.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

yudeology101 — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:34:17 GMT

Interesting article, I wonder if any members here have already gotten the surprise from Cap1 at work.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

mo15473 — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:43:46 GMT

Glad I don't have that card in my wallet. Not sure how I would feel if a credit card company came to my home. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

sghosh5 — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:51:29 GMT

Personal visits may only happen when someone doesn't pay the bill and account goes in collection. Not a new thing. Car loan lenders already do that. Why would be in that place anyway of spending from your card and not paying the bill. Always spend someting that you can afford to pay back. Always pay in full.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

wacdenney — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 15:47:34 GMT

I wish Capital One would stop by my house, I would like to talk to them about a CLI...

When they did show up I would hope it was Samuel L Jackson and NOT Alec Baldwin!!

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

Open123 — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 15:52:27 GMT

I wouldn't appreciate it if they dropped in my home unnanounced, but my place of business is fine, since it's open to the General Public. If they did, I'd suggest on the Venture card, they'd allow points to redeem the fees at a bonus value, similar to US Bank's FlexPerks.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

DaJagman — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:02:46 GMT

Secured and Subprime loans are higher risk and they want to increase their visibility in order to further guarantee payment.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

Swapmeet — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:17:18 GMT

I used to work for a rent to own center and payments were due every week. If they didn't pay, then I would call them at home, or work. If they still didn't pay, I would visit their home and call the references that they left. If they still didn't pay, I would certainly add their place of employment to my visit list. The bottom line is: it works. There are three ways to avoid all of this. One is to pay one's bill on time. If the first one is impossible, then the second one is to call me and let me help you. The third, (which is irrelevant for cap 1) is to return, or ask us to pick up the merchandise and let you pick up where you left off on the payments when you get things straightened out. I never "searched or seized" anyone's home or assets. I simply wanted to talk to them, and they didn't want to talk to me. I think it is a good strategy, from first-hand experience.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

yudeology101 — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:20:43 GMT

@wacdenney wrote:
I wish Capital One would stop by my house, I would like to talk to them about a CLI...

When they did show up I would hope it was Samuel L Jackson and NOT Alec Baldwin!!

LOL +1! I would also like to have a nice chat about my CLI.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

Swapmeet — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:23:29 GMT

@yudeology101 wrote:
@wacdenney wrote:
I wish Capital One would stop by my house, I would like to talk to them about a CLI...

When they did show up I would hope it was Samuel L Jackson and NOT Alec Baldwin!!
LOL +1! I would also like to have a nice chat about my CLI.

+2 ...lol, I just want sammy jackson to come by for a big kahuna burger and a sprite.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

toppers555 — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:39:13 GMT

@Swapmeet wrote:
I used to work for a rent to own center and payments were due every week. If they didn't pay, then I would call them at home, or work. If they still didn't pay, I would visit their home and call the references that they left. If they still didn't pay, I would certainly add their place of employment to my visit list. The bottom line is: it works. There are three ways to avoid all of this. One is to pay one's bill on time. If the first one is impossible, then the second one is to call me and let me help you. The third, (which is irrelevant for cap 1) is to return, or ask us to pick up the merchandise and let you pick up where you left off on the payments when you get things straightened out. I never "searched or seized" anyone's home or assets. I simply wanted to talk to them, and they didn't want to talk to me. I think it is a good strategy, from first-hand experience.

It works but is very boarderline of being ethical.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

Open123 — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:45:22 GMT

@toppers555 wrote:
It works but is very boarderline of being ethical.

Sure, but on the other hand, most of us were raised to pay our debts. I'm not suggesting debt collectors are ethical, but "avoiding" calls from those whom you rightfully owe a debt isn't exactly a paragon of viture either.

Not being judgmental here, but I've always believed that if one couldn't honor or pay an obligation, one should notify the creditor, at the very least. It could simply be, "If we can't work out a manageable arrangement, I'd have trouble paying. Do what you must with the account."

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

Swapmeet — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:47:40 GMT

@toppers555 wrote:
@Swapmeet wrote:
I used to work for a rent to own center and payments were due every week. If they didn't pay, then I would call them at home, or work. If they still didn't pay, I would visit their home and call the references that they left. If they still didn't pay, I would certainly add their place of employment to my visit list. The bottom line is: it works. There are three ways to avoid all of this. One is to pay one's bill on time. If the first one is impossible, then the second one is to call me and let me help you. The third, (which is irrelevant for cap 1) is to return, or ask us to pick up the merchandise and let you pick up where you left off on the payments when you get things straightened out. I never "searched or seized" anyone's home or assets. I simply wanted to talk to them, and they didn't want to talk to me. I think it is a good strategy, from first-hand experience.
It works but is very boarderline of being ethical.

It is not unethical. Charging irresponsibly and not paying your bills--and not making any payment arrangements is unethical. I understand that you are a consumer, but look at it from the company's perspective: They offered an unsecured line of credit that is being defaulted on. Is it unethical to try to get a hold of someone who is in the process of defaulting and refuses to answer the phone when you call? I don't think it is at all. The ethics of the thing lies with the customer.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

toppers555 — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:56:26 GMT

@Open123 wrote:
@toppers555 wrote:
It works but is very boarderline of being ethical.
Sure, but on the other hand, most of us were raised to pay our debts. I'm not suggesting debt collectors are ethical, but "avoiding" calls from those whom you rightfully owe a debt isn't exactly a paragon of viture either.

Not being judgmental here, but I've always believed that if one couldn't honor or pay an obligation, one should notify the creditor, at the very least. It could simply be, "If we can't work out a manageable arrangement, I'd have trouble paying. Do what you must with the account."

I agree communcation is a fair expectation. The problem is that some debit collectors are not merely trying to contact you . They use this as a shame tactic.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

toppers555 — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:59:38 GMT

@Swapmeet wrote:
@toppers555 wrote:
@Swapmeet wrote:
I used to work for a rent to own center and payments were due every week. If they didn't pay, then I would call them at home, or work. If they still didn't pay, I would visit their home and call the references that they left. If they still didn't pay, I would certainly add their place of employment to my visit list. The bottom line is: it works. There are three ways to avoid all of this. One is to pay one's bill on time. If the first one is impossible, then the second one is to call me and let me help you. The third, (which is irrelevant for cap 1) is to return, or ask us to pick up the merchandise and let you pick up where you left off on the payments when you get things straightened out. I never "searched or seized" anyone's home or assets. I simply wanted to talk to them, and they didn't want to talk to me. I think it is a good strategy, from first-hand experience.
It works but is very boarderline of being ethical.
It is not unethical. Charging irresponsibly and not paying your bills--and not making any payment arrangements is unethical. I understand that you are a consumer, but look at it from the company's perspective: They offered an unsecured line of credit that is being defaulted on. Is it unethical to try to get a hold of someone who is in the process of defaulting and refuses to answer the phone when you call? I don't think it is at all. The ethics of the thing lies with the customer.

Their are other means as well to get ahold of someone besides appearing at their place of employment. If you are not getting a response when trying to contact someone its one thing. When you use it as a shame tactic its another thing all together.

Re: Capital One can visit home/work place

Swapmeet — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 17:14:54 GMT

@toppers555 wrote:
@Swapmeet wrote:
@toppers555 wrote:
@Swapmeet wrote:
I used to work for a rent to own center and payments were due every week. If they didn't pay, then I would call them at home, or work. If they still didn't pay, I would visit their home and call the references that they left. If they still didn't pay, I would certainly add their place of employment to my visit list. The bottom line is: it works. There are three ways to avoid all of this. One is to pay one's bill on time. If the first one is impossible, then the second one is to call me and let me help you. The third, (which is irrelevant for cap 1) is to return, or ask us to pick up the merchandise and let you pick up where you left off on the payments when you get things straightened out. I never "searched or seized" anyone's home or assets. I simply wanted to talk to them, and they didn't want to talk to me. I think it is a good strategy, from first-hand experience.
It works but is very boarderline of being ethical.
It is not unethical. Charging irresponsibly and not paying your bills--and not making any payment arrangements is unethical. I understand that you are a consumer, but look at it from the company's perspective: They offered an unsecured line of credit that is being defaulted on. Is it unethical to try to get a hold of someone who is in the process of defaulting and refuses to answer the phone when you call? I don't think it is at all. The ethics of the thing lies with the customer.
Their are other means as well to get ahold of someone besides appearing at their place of employment. If you are not getting a response when trying to contact someone its one thing. When you use it as a shame tactic its another thing all together.

Do you think that showing up at a customer's place of employment is the first way that Cap 1 is using to contact customers? Come on now.

Re: Ding Dong...it's Capital One at the door

FocusedAndDetermined — Tue, 18 Feb 2014 18:08:07 GMT

I just read this on the CNN website, then came here to see if anyone had posted ther LA Times article. This was my favorite paragraph:

The rules aren't new but the L.A. Times column lit up social media and left the bank scrambling to reassure credit card customers. "Capital One does not visit our cardholders, nor do we send debt collectors to their homes or work," the bank said in an emailed statement.

I bet they were scrambling; no one ever brought attention to langauge buried deep within fine print of the disclosure.