topic Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War in Credit in the News

Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

iheartwings — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:27:53 GMT

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/business/american-express-chase-sapphire-reserve.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:20:49 GMT

Great story link. Says lots about the future!

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

iheartwings — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:00:02 GMT

I know!

I know there is quite a bit of talk on the forums about AmEx and how they are trying to keep up with premium perks. I like some of the new stuff coming out of the pipeline of benefits for AmEx Plat holders. If they were a little more flexible with their reimbursements and maybe awarded more points for, say, dining, I'd make use of the card way more than I do now (essentially for plane fare, occasional AmEx deals, or whereever it's accepted internationally). Also, not sure that it was in their best interest to increase the AF by $100 either.

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

grillandwinemaster — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:50:15 GMT

Interesting article. My guess is that Amex will "catch up" to the younger generation, in time.

Its necessary for Amex to cater to the younger generation without alienating the older, "well-to do" generation.

This is classic American Icon growing pains. For example, Cadillac went through similar growing pains. They had to figure out a way to cater to the younger generations, without alienating the former generations that put them where they are.

I have no doubt that Amex, like Cadillac will figure out how to do this, and once again become the " Standard of the World."

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

DaveInAZ — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 19:08:45 GMT

Good article, I read it in my news feed this morning. I've never been a fan of Amex, too long a story to explain why - I'll just say: "Don't leave home without it, but be prepared to expain yourself when we demand it".

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

pipeguy — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 19:43:24 GMT

Counld not happen to a better company (target) IMO .... I'm obvously NOT an AmEx fan.

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

Anonymous — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:23:32 GMT

Cool read thanks for the post. Agreed, they will catch up eventually. They have been trying already. Didnt they try that Zync card like 6 years ago. Wonder what they will do next.

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

Revelate — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:42:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Cool read thanks for the post. Agreed, they will catch up eventually. They have been trying already. Didnt they try that Zync card like 6 years ago. Wonder what they will do next.

Not really in my estimation, that was a foray trying to attract younger and less affluent individuals, and was an everyday spender which the majority of Amex products were not at that time; CSR isn't that at all as it strikes straight at the heart of the traditional (read as: historical) Amex base, but the CSR is recognized even as far away as Singapore as being the new hotness... interestingly enough Amex has good acceptance here too so it's not a matter of not knowing about other options.

Amex is going to be facing an uphill battle at this point, CSR is basically the ultimate international travel card as near as I can tell after some experience with it in various Asia markets at least: wide acceptance, excellent perks, and rewards on virtually everything one pays for with a credit card.

"That's the best card now isn't it?" I was asked, to which I replied, "It is for me."

Amex (you're rich) Chase/Citi (you're interesting)

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:01:27 GMT

Did anyoe read the article in the NYT about what status and cards mean to Millenials? Basically a synopsis: Millenials don't like to flaunt their affluency (if they have it) and look at Amex card holders as middle age, older, your grandfathers credit card, and if you use a Chase or Citi Premium Card like Ink or Sapphire you're more interesting, and there is nothing wrong with making good money as long as you do so in an understated way?

When I worked in Vegas at some high end resorts, when someone presented their Titanium Black Card to me, on the maybe 4 times it happened, in 6 years, regardless who it was, it impressed me. But, I'm not 30 something or a millenial. What do you think?

Re: Amex (you're rich) Chase/Citi (you're interesting)

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:32:35 GMT

I read a similar article that stated milenials value experiences over status which is why the CSR was in part such a big hit with them because they could Use the points for experiences. The Amex Platinum provides perks and status which as you say is something older and thus more affluent people value. Is this bible, no. It is something I've noticed as a barely millennial though.

Re: Amex (you're rich) Chase/Citi (you're interesting)

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:36:42 GMT

There's no question in anybody's mind that if Amex expects to maintain their success in the future they need change now. Leadership from the outside is past due.

Re: Amex (you're rich) Chase/Citi (you're interesting)

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:19:20 GMT

The whole article is bs. Personally, I don't view AMEX as "you're rich", but more like your uneducated or have bad credit. I use cards based on their value. My goal is to maximize my value from every transaction. From the grandma using her Freedom card @ the grocery store to the millennial using their CSR @ the bar. Those are my people. To the dbag who thinks he is cool because of his Amex Platinum, b... please.

It's about being an educated consumer for me. Using a great product like the CSR shows that. It doesn't make anyone more interesting.

Re: Amex (you're rich) Chase/Citi (you're interesting)

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:23:29 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous whole article is bs. Personally, I don't view AMEX as "you're rich", but more like your uneducated or have bad credit. I use cards based on their value. My goal is to maximize my value from every transaction. From the grandma using her Freedom card @ the grocery store to the millennial using their CSR @ the bar. Those are my people. To the dbag who thinks he is cool because of his Amex Platinum, b... please.

It's about being an educated consumer for me. Using a great product like the CSR shows that. It doesn't make anyone more interesting.

Do keep in mind there are alot of people that utilize the benefits the Platinum offer. You can't stereotype everyone that has an Amex. Uneducated or bad credit do not belong in the same sentence as Amex.

Re: Amex (you're rich) Chase/Citi (you're interesting)

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:35:03 GMT

Didn't the article stereotype Millennials? I guess that is ok...

And yes, to anyone who uses an Amex Platinum (or mostly any other Amex product) is uneducated about better products or cannot get them. Yes, I'm willing to stereotype those people.

The Amex Platinum may be a good sock drawer card, but it's everyday value leaves a lot to be desired.

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:49:52 GMT

The bottom is line that CSR offers better rewards than Amex Platinum for the vast majority of millenials (and people in general).

Here's a good example: Amex just unveiled $200 in Ubers credits. The problem is that those $15 monthly uber credits and $35 in December expire at the end of each month. What kind of reward is this? This feature sounds appealing, but I would wager to bet most people won't use more than $30 worth. And when you account for the $100 AF increase, Amex's card just got $70 less attractive.

Re: Amex (you're rich) Chase/Citi (you're interesting)

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:15:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Didn't the article stereotype Millennials? I guess that is ok...

And yes, to anyone who uses an Amex Platinum (or mostly any other Amex product) is uneducated about better products or cannot get them. Yes, I'm willing to stereotype those people.

The Amex Platinum may be a good sock drawer card, but it's everyday value leaves a lot to be desired.

While there are certainly some people (and maybe a lot) with an Amex Plat who have it only for the status and don't use the perks, there is some subset for whom it really is the best card, with 5x on airfare and a set of perks that aren't all duplicated on other cards. So "anyone" is far too strong. And it really isn't positioned as an everyday card (that's another one of theirs!)

And I think the same is probably true for most of the loved cards on MyFico. Lots of people love(d) the Amex BCE, when, while it was available, the Sallie Mae was better at every price point. People have the Chase FU and redeem the points for cash, when a 2% would be better etc.

So having an Amex doesn't mean you are uneducated, and not having one doesn't mean you made the right decision.

Re: Amex (you're rich) Chase/Citi (you're interesting)

pipeguy — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:34:01 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous whole article is bs. Personally, I don't view AMEX as "you're rich", but more like your uneducated or have bad credit. I use cards based on their value. My goal is to maximize my value from every transaction. From the grandma using her Freedom card @ the grocery store to the millennial using their CSR @ the bar. Those are my people. To the dbag who thinks he is cool because of his Amex Platinum, b... please.

It's about being an educated consumer for me. Using a great product like the CSR shows that. It doesn't make anyone more interesting.

Personally I'm NOT a fan of AmEx and I have a 40 year history with them, that said I think your post in short sighted. Back when I did a lot of trabeling and the Amex Platinum cost $300 a year (you had to be invited) it was a very useful tool for me and I used it a lot both as a merchant and a small business owner for expenses. I currently have well over 2 dz bank cards, and fairly high credit scores, but I don't have the time to play the "rewards game" for every purchase every day - not that I mind cash back, but I'm not chasing pennies because I've got a card that fits every purchase. This could be a long discussion, pros and cons, I just have the time or interest to chase another hobby.

On the other hand, I have commented more than once on paying AF's especially high AF's for flashing "ego-cards" which is a waste of money and no one really cares which card you flash. Uneducated? perhaps image over sunstance. Bad Credit? Don't know too many folks that get AmEx Platinum, CSR or CSR-R, Ritz, Simmons, etc etc that have bad credit. Dirtbag? Jeez, seems a bit harsh I mean those that over pay at J. Crew or Brooks Brothers are not "my people" but if it makes them happy...why judge?

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:43:57 GMT

Really 5x on airfare that's the best Amex Platinum can do? Yawn. Again, I'm after the best value, of which, in my opinion Amex is not one of them. CSR's 3x on travel and dining is best in class.

Wake me up when Amex actually produces a decent card that is worth my spend.

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

Revelate — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 02:06:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The bottom is line that CSR offers better rewards than Amex Platinum for the vast majority of millenials (and people in general).

Here's a good example: Amex just unveiled $200 in Ubers credits. The problem is that those $15 monthly uber credits and $35 in December expire at the end of each month. What kind of reward is this? This feature sounds appealing, but I would wager to bet most people won't use more than $30 worth. And when you account for the $100 AF increase, Amex's card just got $70 less attractive.

If I was dedicated to not owning a car, which I will be if I move to SG or HKG or similar, I could make use of that Uber credit for when mass transit is either not available or not appealing. As it is now though where I'm only sporadically using Uber either for one-off trips at home (airport) or when I'm overseas, credits that expire aren't of much value to me even if I use more than the monthly credit when I am travelling historically: not that hard to reach that.

It's not like I'm hurting, Uber falls straight to 3X on the CSR anyway which is winning enough for me currently, and with everything else in my current existence the CSR is overwhelmingly the best card on the market, and that was without the 100K UR bonus option.

Re: Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War

Anonymous — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 02:18:01 GMT

I don't think rewards/appeal should be the only reason for using a card or bank. A lot of what I expect is good service. Good service includes many things 1) fixing fraud 2) helping with emergency cli 3) answering the phone promptly 4) posting payments promptly 5) no unneeded holds 6) posting charges promptly 7) providing correct information. 8) being treated in a fair and reasonable manner. Snob appeal should not be a reason. Some card companies only look out for themselves not the client.