topic Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials in Credit in the News

Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Nov 2017 16:33:11 GMT

Just read a new report with about a million statistics https://victimsofcommunism.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/YouGov-VOC-2017-for-Media-Release-November-2-2017-final.pdf

The most interesting part is that 42% of millennials want to live in capitalism while 44% of millennials want to live in socialism, "possibly" because 53% of millennials believe the economy is working against them.

All politics aside (The forums are for civil non-political discussion and I really don't want to see this thread get shut down), how do you see this affecting the credit industry in general?

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Nov 2017 17:16:08 GMT

Publish or perish I guess, yawn.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

marty56 — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 09:46:06 GMT

I will assume then that they wouldn't mind getting a B in a course they should have gotten an A in because another student wanted to go from a C to a B. Fair is fair.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 12:17:04 GMT

@marty56 wrote:
I will assume then that they wouldn't mind getting a B in a course they should have gotten an A in because another student wanted to go from a C to a B. Fair is fair.

That's a perfect analogy...

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 23:36:24 GMT

This can't really be discussed without going into politics. I'll just vaguely share my thoughts. I'm against capitalism because of its death toll and hidden bias. Also the fact that technology has advanced past the limited resources mindset that our entire society was built upon, we have an extreme overabundance now.

Nevertheless, I don't think it will affect credit at all, because people don't have a choice in whether or not to partipate in credit. Your information is getting reported no ones asking how you feel about it.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 01:07:51 GMT

Student loans are mentally crushing and exhausting I hear (I date millennials generally and they all seem to have issues there).

Good luck selling McMansions to that generation. Or trying to convince them to buy out your 401K stocks in 20 years.

Personally I don't care if it all burns, I'll be on a big boat off of Saba if you need me.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 06:24:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
trying to convince them to buy out your 401K stocks in 20 years.

Wow I never thought of this as a possibly. I just always hoped the beaten in index fund advice would keep increasing in value. Never thought I'd ever have a problem selling it.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 14:02:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Wow I never thought of this as a possibly. I just always hoped the beaten in index fund advice would keep increasing in value. Never thought I'd ever have a problem selling it.

I follow a much more conservative plan for my investment (although I have 6-12% of my net worth in crypto but I have been there since 2012 or so!). I keep about 16% of my net worth in the stock market and rebalance it annually if I can without a tax punch.

I also have a little sis who is a millennial (she's in her early 20s) and none of her friends have a dime in the market and they're not poor kids or anything. All have good jobs, great educations, nice comfortable living but they're totally stock market dumb. Few of them have more than $500 in savings. At least 70% of them have student loan debt they will likely never pay off (6 figure debt). I have no idea how they'd ever buy a home even. It's amazing to me, I am so thankful I dodged the college bullet out of high school (on purpose and this was back in the early 90s that I made the choice to not waste 4 years in a useless university).

The last gal I dated really seriously was the antithesis of the millenial but she was in her early 20s and had saved and invested her way into being worth over a million on paper. No college debt, no luxury spending on boots and purses, no fancy car. The gal I'm dating now is in even better shape, millennial as well -- but all of her friends from college have 6 figures student loans, weak to no 401K and are constantly "depressed and full of anxiety" about their financial future. It amazes me every time I meet some of them how they can afford Amazon purchases and $300/month on their phone+cable+netflix habits but don't have two pennies to rub together...

The thing is, my generation in our 20s were insane spenders, too. It's not just millennials, it's whoever is in that age range, but right now it does lool more scary because I didn't know a single person who graduated with the equivalent of 3 years annual income in student loan debt that can't be BK discharged. So the difference was when we went to college (my generation), most of us went to night school and worked a day job, or had two part time jobs to at least cut the debt down. And college was $20,000-$25,000/year, not $60,000 a year for a master's in digital basket weaving application writing with no job future.

College crushed the millennials, for sure. And no act of Congress is going to fix the trillion dollar mess because most of Congress (like me) is invested in SLABS and other student loan investments. Student loans made me lots and lots of money for 10 years, but it made millionaires out of politicians deeply invested in that predatory trash.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

marty56 — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 20:57:46 GMT

Really far back in the day, I went to CUNY Queens College where it was $200 a semester. I have a skill that is marketable so I was always able to find work.

It would be great if high school seniors could be told the truth about field of studies and the job market after, rather then pushing students to get into high fee schools and fields of study that have no real job prospects.

Perhaps if they graduate with little to no student loan debt in a field that is marketable, their views might change as well.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 18:29:46 GMT

I wouldn't be surprised if somehigh school counselors earned "perks" for suggesting loans and college.

Back in 1991 I aced my ACT and nearly aced my SAT and my counselor was jamming me to go to a college I couldn't afford. Non-stop harassment to go to college when I told her and my peers I was going to buy a condo instead. And I did buy a condo instead (with savings). For the next 5 years everyone told me I'd be some loser selling kidneys, lol.

So even 25+ years ago, the idea that college meant wealth was being forec-fed to kids who weren't old enough to sign a contract.

I can't imagine how nefarious the deal is today in high school. I still hear BS myths that you can't get a job at McDonalds without a master's degree, but in my old line of work when I did work, we preferred to mentor to high school graduates rather than put up with busted minds out of university. And this was in a field that consistently paid 6 figures even in the 90s.

I tell young kids today to learn a trade like plumbing or generator repair or electrical work (especially solar/green) -- the kind of stuff that marketing graduates have no capacity to do themselves and will pay a pretty penny for someone else to. My local plumber is 26 and he's already a millionaire because he's the 5-star emergency services guy charging $160/hour during the day, and way more for night time or weekend emergencies.

Knowing my little sister's overeducated friends, I bet absolutely zero of them can fix a toilet running.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 14:04:20 GMT

Man, when you think about it it is absolutely INSANE that we will loan kids tens of thousands of dollars with no proof of income and they’ve actually never had any income ever in life! They can’t even get a credit card.

I’m only 23. I avoided college because I was debt adverse and I did poorly in high school due to playing video games all day instead of homework. I scored the highest ACT in my school but my GPA was 2.3. I have a good union job but my income is low, I’m on track to make $29 an hour by 2021 but that’s nothing to compare to what I see people on Reddit and these forums making. sometimes I worry did I make the right choice not going to college.... I need to be frugal and get into rental property asap.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 17:20:45 GMT

I know a few people in there late 20’s early 30’s that don’t pay there student loans. They could, but that Coach purse or new SUV is more important to them. I don’t get it. In my opinion, student loans should be just like a car loan. If you don’t pay your car, it gets repo’ed. Repo that dang degree and every credit if you decide you just don’t want to pay your student loans!

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

marty56 — Sun, 12 Nov 2017 00:28:04 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Man, when you think about it it is absolutely INSANE that we will loan kids tens of thousands of dollars with no proof of income and they’ve actually never had any income ever in life! They can’t even get a credit card.

I’m only 23. I avoided college because I was debt adverse and I did poorly in high school due to playing video games all day instead of homework. I scored the highest ACT in my school but my GPA was 2.3. I have a good union job but my income is low, I’m on track to make $29 an hour by 2021 but that’s nothing to compare to what I see people on Reddit and these forums making. sometimes I worry did I make the right choice not going to college.... I need to be frugal and get into rental property asap.

You could always go back to school and in my career field it doesn't matter what school you go to. The trick is to find what you like and then figure a way to make money doing it. College isn't for everybody and I learned 99% of my job through experience.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Dalmus — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:17:14 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Man, when you think about it it is absolutely INSANE that we will loan kids tens of thousands of dollars with no proof of income and they’ve actually never had any income ever in life! They can’t even get a credit card.

I’m only 23. I avoided college because I was debt adverse and I did poorly in high school due to playing video games all day instead of homework. I scored the highest ACT in my school but my GPA was 2.3. I have a good union job but my income is low, I’m on track to make $29 an hour by 2021 but that’s nothing to compare to what I see people on Reddit and these forums making. sometimes I worry did I make the right choice not going to college.... I need to be frugal and get into rental property asap.

One of the problems is that many people don't really have a concept of what most people in the US make, so too many people have "keep up with the Jones'" lifestyle when they really don't need to, and because of that have a very skewed sense of what "fair" is. For example, at the end of the year, I'll clear somewhere around $55K. That means I'm making more money yearly than nearly 70% of the rest of the country. Many of my wife's millenial friends make less money than I (or we) do, but they have more fancy electronics, newer cars, and go on big vacations every year (sometimes twice a year), but they have no savings or investments, and they almost ALL feel like they are being screwed by "The Rich" somehow.

I don't think it'll effect credit cards too much, because that's how these people live... But I see it more effecting mortgage and investments markets; the Long Term financials.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

gsxraddict — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 06:43:04 GMT

Capitalism has built the world superpower in under 200 years, no other system can say the same.

I do not see the opinion of young kids having an effect on the credit industry though.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

trusty — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 11:13:42 GMT

@gsxraddict wrote:
Capitalism has built the world superpower in under 200 years, no other system can say the same.

I do not see the opinion of young kids having an effect on the credit industry though.

Essentially, we have a financial system where sheep get herded to the slaughter, and whereby any capitalist that is keen enough to buy in - can then participate in feeding on their carcasses.

There's nothing inherently productive to the world economy for wealth being redistributed upwards in this fashion. It's essentially socialism for the ruling class, and "free market" for everyone else. The sheep are "free" to continue their serfdom.

Actually, what capitalism has built is a grand ponzi scheme, that - rather than addressing the fundamental flaws and unsustainability of asset and resource hoarding - has become too-big-to-fail.

The systemic ponzi scheme is evident from the overwhelming dilution of currency that regularly takes place, in order to keep the music playing... in this perpetual game of musical chairs.

If what we have now is Capitalism, than clearly, anyone that can readily add and subtract can surmise that the system doesn't work for the vast majority... which is the only reasonable measure for its effectiveness.

The idea that the vast majority of the populace frankly doesn't deserve, or isn't worthy of a fair slice of the world's resources... is an untenable, self serving argument.

Capitalism only works for the haves - at the expense of the have-nots, period.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

trusty — Fri, 24 Nov 2017 12:43:55 GMT

The other thing that Capitalism fails to address is the unintended consequence of corruption.

Policy is now in large part a reflection of Capitalism, and its inherent lack of fairness.

If we lived in a world where everyone was born with their own equal slice of the world's resources, than every voice would count the same. - But, we'd probably have more population controls, too.

Now, that doesn't mean that there wouldn't still be the possibility of mob rule. - Another issue in an of itself.

Nevertheless, Capitalism provides an incentive for corruption to exist.

The haves need to cordon themselves off from the have nots. Gated communities with their own bylaws are a microcosm of this.

If everyone was entitled to living in a gated community... we wouldn't very well need gated communities.

But, since Capitalism creates a situation where the unfortunate have nothing to lose, we have to find ways to keep them out.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

marty56 — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:01:41 GMT

In the entire history of man, every single form of government had coruption. Ironically in a democratic society I think there are more options for it.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

Moneyklutz — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 01:23:32 GMT

@troylasvegas wrote:

...Policy is now in large part a reflection of Capitalism, and its inherent lack of fairness.

I disagree.

"fairness" is simply a desire and relates very much to ones view at that point in time of making it. Life is not 'fair' and never will be.

As an experiment, try taking all the money in the world and distributing it equally amongst every human being that's alive at that moment...

How long do you think it will be before we have a world of 'haves' and 'have nots' again?

You can blame Capitalism all you want, but the ill's you describe are simply human nature at best.

Re: Capitalism is not favored by millennials

trusty — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 02:41:05 GMT

@Moneyklutz wrote:
@troylasvegas wrote:

...Policy is now in large part a reflection of Capitalism, and its inherent lack of fairness.

I disagree.

"fairness" is simply a desire and relates very much to ones view at that point in time of making it. Life is not 'fair' and never will be.

As an experiment, try taking all the money in the world and distributing it equally amongst every human being that's alive at that moment...

How long do you think it will be before we have a world of 'haves' and 'have nots' again?

You can blame Capitalism all you want, but the ill's you describe are simply human nature at best.

The issue with that theory is that, it's basically just saying that, even if we tried to do things better... it wouldn't work; which we could never prove, unless we actually tested it... which we never will of course - if those defeatist sentiments continue to hold sway over the populace.

Firstly, it's just a specious argument to say that - it cannot get better if we tried... so why even try. - To wit: the current situational reality has been unequivocally proven to not be working for the vast majority. So, there's facts and stats versus... the idea that we should just keep things the way they are.

Finally, the reason that it will never be fair is not because we couldn't very well set it up that way. Rather, it's primarily due to the pervasive idea that somehow it already is fair... which is basically to tacitly believe that fairness should not really even exist. Essentially, it's the idea that: No one is entitled to or even worthy of fairness. It might be better chance of a poor person getting stuck by lightning, than realizing their dreams; so... you're saying there's a chance. All that matters is that it's possible, not even remotely likely; regardless of the fact that most are still poor.

The facts are that, under Capitalism, the vast majority will never achieve their dreams, full stop. The fundamental flaw of Capitalism, is that it can only continue to work for a minority... at the expense of the vast majority. - It's just simple arithmetic.

Now, we can go around the numbers in perpetuity, with ideas that people are lazy and unworthy of moving up the societal structure... which may or may not have merit. Yet, heritage holds far too much sway, over merit. - There's really no justifiable reason that babies should be born wealthy, versus malnourished. This is just the current reality. However, it's clearly not the best we can do.

Also, the idea that we could just give everyone an equal share of currency is a strawman argument. No one would assert that, because then money would immediately lose it's value.

I'm talking about a system that would focus on equal shares of the world's land and resources, that could be traded... and would increase or decrease based on societal norms, based on merit.

No one should be born poor, but that doesn't mean that they cannot squander what they have. That's a different eventuality, which does not preclude the idea that we can still try harder to make things more fair for everyone.

At present, we're trying hardest for those that have, at the expense of those that have less. So, we're moving in the wrong direction.