topic Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three in Credit in the News

FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:37:58 GMT

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_7344505

...
Fair Isaac, developer of the FICO score widely used for home loan underwriting, confirmed that its "FICO '08" scoring model is not yet available at any of the three national credit bureaus. The new model, announced with fanfare in June as an antidote to piggyback fraud, was to have been activated in September at one of the bureaus, Experian.

But Experian says it has no firm timetable to make the model available. The two other bureaus - Equifax and TransUnion - are not scheduled to receive the model until sometime in 2008, according to Craig Watts, a Fair Isaac spokesman.
...

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:53:48 GMT

Fascinating Noah. Thank you.

I think a sticky should be started for this subject. Hope it happens.

IMO, now's a good time to start it too.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Trojan_Large — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:07:35 GMT

hmmmm

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 00:06:38 GMT

Fascism is defined by Encarta as, “any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism.”

Yes, a lot of people will be negatively affected by this change; few more than me. I run a so called Credit Piggybacking company. I have a wife who is 9 months pregnant. I am a real person with a family to support. I recognize that I will soon need to adjust my business to reflect these changes if I want to survive. You think that FICO 08 will actually stop the AU benefit? Yes, if they ever get around to it. Fair Isaac’s latest press release says they do not have a timetable on this revision and when they do update their software, it will take 12-18 months for the lending institutions to go out and buy the update and install it in their system; much like your Windows operating system…just because they released Vista, doesn’t mean you are going to go out and buy it tomorrow. Even this revision won't stop people like me from exploiting every possible loophole in their system. No more AU's...no problem...I'll just start selling joint account holder positions, or primary loan positions on secured installment loans.

The FICO system is as flawed and fascist as the company that owns this very chat room (that will probably get edited out).

The credit scoring and recording system is extremely flawed, unrealistic, and unreliable. It used to be that you would have to dress up in your Sunday Best, wash the car, and get a haircut before walking in to the local bank to ask for a loan. The banking and lending institutions have demanded a more reliable and efficient system, thus EXP, EQX, and TU. These companies specialize in collecting private and personal information about you and everyone else in this country. Did they ask for your permission to collect this information about you? Did you sign an opt-in agreement? Nope. When they incorrectly report information about you (MyFico.com says over 79% of all credit reports contain misinformation) how easy is it for you to correct the error? If their error negatively affects you and causes you to lose out on an opportunity to buy a home, business, or lower interest rate on a loan, can you place a claim to recoup damages against their Errors & Omissions insurance like you can with any bank, financial advisor, mortgage broker, or real estate broker? Uh, yeah right.

Let's take this a step further, the bureaus now take all of this stolen (...waiting for the TU employee/moderator/Nazi to edit that one, too) information about you and sell it to the banking institution or retailer you choose to do business with. Did you know that every time you ask someone to pull your credit they have to pay the bureaus for it? And I am sure you got a cut of that fee, seeing as how it is YOUR information and all. No, you didn't? Neither does anyone else.

So, now we have established that the 3 bureaus collect extremely personal and private information about you without your permission. They sell it for a profit. You do not get any of that money. Can it be any worse? Let's take a look. MyFico.com TruCredit.com MyFreeCreditReport.com all of these places that have illegally stolen your information are now selling it BACK TO YOU! We are all a bunch of idiots (I am included in this insult, by the way)!!

My point is simply this: If someone is going to steal private and personal information from me and make a profit from it, make it next to impossible to fix any incorrect information while it negatively affects me, not pay any damages caused by the misinformation, not pay me or even ask my permission to hold, record, and sell this information about me, then it is up to me to locate and exploit my own way of earning my deserved commission through the faults in that very system.

Good luck to all of you. Heil Hitler…I mean FICO! (edit…?)

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:30:22 GMT

I guess I'm just not a very good Nazi today because, even though this message is a duplicate, and contains some rather ad hominem attacks on staff here (including myself), I have chosen not to edit or remove it.

The post is so patently vitriolic and off-base I figure it is its own rebuttal...point and counterpoint all in one. Read it once at face value, and then again with a good dose of sarcasm.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:49:46 GMT

Ummm... OK.... Read through the long post several times trying to find the reference to FICO 08's extended gestation, but I seem to have missed it...

Oh, well, here I sit with my AU account, stayin' alive a bit longer! I'm not going joint unless and until I have to.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 03:53:20 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
Ummm... OK.... Read through the long post several times trying to find the reference to FICO 08's extended gestation, but I seem to have missed it...

Oh, well, here I sit with my AU account, stayin' alive a bit longer! I'm not going joint unless and until I have to.

Well at least it didn't take long for Godwin's Law to come into play now, did it?

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

fused — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 04:48:35 GMT

BAiry796:

I have real issues with you posting how you earn a living. Yeah your post stays, but it stinks to high heaven that you are allowed to post the fact that you are the proud owner of a company that sells bogus TLs. As far as I'm concerned I can't wait until FICO 2008 is widely used so businesses such as yours fall out of existence. Expecting anyone in these forums to agree with you and respect the type of business you own is ludicrous. Businesses like yours really tick me off.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:01:20 GMT

@fused wrote:
BAiry796:

I have real issues with you posting how you earn a living. Yeah your post stays, but it stinks to high heaven that you are allowed to post the fact that you are the proud owner of a company that sells bogus TLs. As far as I'm concerned I can't wait until FICO 2008 is widely used so businesses such as yours fall out of existence. Expecting anyone in these forums to agree with you and respect the type of business you own is ludicrous. Businesses like yours really tick me off.

What probably ticked him off the most was that I didn't edit or delete his post. He was likely all primed to go posting on other forums about how the evil fascists at Fair Isaac suppressed him as part of The Man's overall conspiracy to keep credit scores down. I've seen that sort on plenty of other boards--it's almost a form of martyrdom for them. Now that the Big Bad Nazi Mod didn't nuke his post, what's he gonna say?

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:49:07 GMT

Don't bet on the piggybacking firms to go away. In fact, I'm betting they will continue to grow AFTER the implementation of FICO 08.

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=creditnews&thread.id=386

Still haven't heard anything official outta FICO as to what percentage of so-called piggybackers are in fact husbands and wives who haven't done anything wrong and will be among the millions of victims of FICO 08, but these minor fluctuations mean nothing.

When one goes hunting mosquitoes with a 12 gauge autoloader, it tends to cause a lot of collateral damage.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:50:27 GMT

TheNewWorldMan wrote:

He was likely all primed to go posting on other forums about how the evil fascists at Fair Isaac suppressed him as part of The Man's overall conspiracy to keep credit scores down.

Who are you and have you done with TNWM?

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 06:29:49 GMT

"I run a so called Credit Piggybacking company."...................

Sounds like to me that this is a person that has a for-profit business for selling FICO scores to individuals. It was a futile and ineffective attempt at justifying immorality, and IMHO, illegality, for personal gain.

Just my opinion.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:38:27 GMT

I'm still trying to figure out what the big noise is about 'piggybacking'. Are you against children/spouses too? What about those people not fortunate enough to have parents/spouses to help them build/repair credit? How is that any more/less dishonest?

Kids with no credit suddenly hitting the credit-world with 750s, millions of other people who need to spend years to attain that? That is ok? A wife with no/bad credit piggybacking off her husband who has built a great one over 20 years, and that is ok, while some single women who has struggled to make ends meet is stuck with her and uses a firm to do the same is not?

Either you are against AU contributing to scores or not. To me it just seems like one minor good loophole in a credit-system designed to keep people in debt.

As I've posted previously (and deleted) I think it is the intention behind the AU (purchased or otherwise) that determines it's morality; if you're using it to hide bad credit and bad intentions, it is fraud. If you are using it to help you build credit honestly that you would find impossible/difficult otherwise, what is the issue here? Some of us messed up; we didn't learn/know about credit, got ourselves in trouble either though bad decisions or bad luck, and have made every effort to clean it up through legitimate means (paying off, PFD, disputes for unverified accounts, negotiations, etc.)

However we don't have any/enough credit to even start establishing new credit. If we can cut the time we need to be able to get a good enough score to prove we are on our feet, shouldn't we be able to do that? Is sitting around for 5 years while our lives go by going to teach us anything we didn't already learn when we were in debt and learning the hard way?

It seems quite holier-then-though nonsense for people with parent/spouse AU to sneer at people who don't have access who do the same thing except for the fact they have to shell out good money to do so.

The people who use this to simply get credit they don't intent/care about paying, again, are scum and con-artists. I'd wager they make up a very small percentage of the population though.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

marty56 — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:43:18 GMT

Many people here have work hard to get and keep good credit. Some people, like myself who had credit problems in the past, have work harder still and didnt take the easty way out.

Piggybacking firms remind me of poeple in school who buy others term papers and then pass them off as their own.

I hope FICO08 makes them a thing of the past and as far as the people who own or work for them they can find an honest job that doesnt violate the spirit if not intent of the concept of credit.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:17:40 GMT

The analogy between 'piggybacking' and stealing term papers is a false one. The intent in the latter case is to pass off work you didn't do as your own, i.e. an end in itself. The former is a means to allow you to do the work it takes to create credit. If I get credit in *part* because I piggyback (have not done so yet and if I end up doing so it is in addition to paying off old debts) I still have to make good on the credit in order to maintain it. No amount of piggybacking will reduce the need for me to maintain good credit in order to have it accessible to me.

The credit-system is flawed top to bottom. The financial industry has stacked the deck in their favor, mostly by creating a monetary system tied to... nothing. What does a bank have to do do make $500,000 of a $500,000 loan? Does the money they 'lend' you even exist? Is it backed by anything? Money, gold, anything? No. They simply type '5-0-0-0-0-0-0'. And sit back and make 1/2 million. In order to make $5Mil they simply type another zero. In other words, they create money that doens't exist in order to make money off of creditors. Who in turn see their purchasing power reduced by inflation, which is directly related to the money that was created when they took out the 'loan'. So as they pay back the money that didn't exist, the value of their purchases/investments drops as the value of money drops.

Does that sound rigged to you? Creditors routinely prey on young people by offering them ridiculous terms and credit-lines, with the express intent of creating a lifelong debtor. Why not give young people with no credit history large lines of credit? It's not like the banks had to work for the money, create it, or even have it to lend. They just create it and in turn another generation of people eternally in debt who watch the inflation caused by the fake money they borrowed destroy their purchasing power.

Credit Agencies collect data on this without your consent, sell it without your consent to others and to you, and routinely desetroy people's chances at credit/homes/jobs by mis-reporting data which takes time, money and knowledge to fix as you lose opportunities.

Credit-Card companies like Cap1 play all sorts of games to get your credit-scores down so they can raise your rates, without your consent or permission, and retroactively. You 'borrow' $2k on your Cap1 card with a $10k line at 10%, then they report to the CRA before you have a chance to pay and your utilization scores go down and your rates go up. When you pay $1k back, your utilization is shown as 50% instead of 10% because they report your high balance ($2k), not your line ($10k), so your utilization score goes down, and your rates go up, again. So now you're paying 20% on a 'loan' you took out at 10%, all because the lender is using/gaming the CRAs to trick you into double the rate you agreed to.

Collection Agencies purchase old detbs for pennies on the dollar, then illegally continue to add interest fees, so that they collect 1000s of times the amount the purchased.

So don't tell me about what Credit Reporting was meant to do, it was meant to make lender and CRAs very rich off the ignorance of customers.

'Piggybacking' as you call it is not a substitute for paying off old debts, no amount of Piggybacking will give a good score/report if you have charge-offs and collections and late payments. So it follows that in order to get a good score, you'd have to take care of your debts first AND in order to maintain it with any new credit you get due to piggybacking you'd have to pay your new debts on time.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

marty56 — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:16:05 GMT

Yes but your score will get a boost that you normally wouldnt have got if you piggyback with someone.

What if that person's credit tanks and they default on their credit card? Would the company come after you? They only accounts I want my name are the ones I have absolute control over.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

Anonymous — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 18:09:15 GMT

@marty56 wrote:
Yes but your score will get a boost that you normally wouldnt have got if you piggyback with someone.
What if that person's credit tanks and they default on their credit card? Would the company come after you? They only accounts I want my name are the ones I have absolute control over.

Yes, my account will get a major boost I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. If I hadn't taken care of my old accounts/collections that boost wouldn't do me much either score-wise or upon manual review. So I get a boost that will allow me to get approved for credit now rather then in 9-12 months which allows me to responsibly build my credit 9-12 months faster. Hard to understand the problem with that. Again, the only issue would be if I was using it to get credit I didn't plan on repaying (i.e. intentional fraud).

How do you compare that to someone who uses their parent's/spouse's credit to boost their own?

As far as I know, Amex can come after me as an AU. And I totally agree you should be very careful about whom you AU off off, to make sure their accounts and utilization are in good standing.

In fact you can AU, then be removed as AU and the AU account will still list (unless you explicitly request the CRA to stop reporting it).

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

marty56 — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 20:33:38 GMT

The use of AU might have a place for parents to help their kids build their credit histories and teach them to be responsible but I dont think the spouse option is good for either party.

It is important that DF have her own credit history so in case something happens to me, she would have her own credit history.

Anyway will see what happens with FICO08.

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:02:51 GMT

@marty56 wrote:
The use of AU might have a place for parents to help their kids build their credit histories and teach them to be responsible but I dont think the spouse option is good for either party.
It is important that DF have her own credit history so in case something happens to me, she would have her own credit history.
Anyway will see what happens with FICO08.

I agree with you about couples not combining their credit, and if I had a time machine and could go back to 1980 when I got married, I would have gotten my own. For many of us, though, the issue never even arose.

One group hard-hit is that of older married people (generally wives, but also husbands) who were AU's because that's the way most people did it back then, and they didn't really think about it. A lot of time these AU's were stay-at-home spouses who actually did the budgeting and bill-paying, and they are looking at losing their credit histories if their AU cards can't convert to joint. And that is true of a lot of companies.

I still think that part of the delay in implementing FICO 08 is that this is an election year, and losing that long credit history is a real blow to many long-time voters.

And actually, I DON'T agree with the idea of kids gaining credit from being AU's on their parents' cards. It's fine to have them be AU's, but in fact, young people with no credit history can hit 700 quite quickly 6 months after getting some sort of started card --student card, card from CU, whatever. All three of my adult kids now have established credit in their own names, under their own steam. Different strokes for different folks, and all that!

Re: FICO 08 Still On Hold - At All Of The Big Three

wmarat — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:37:19 GMT

BAiry796 wrote:
Fascism is defined by Encarta as, “any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism.”
Yes, a lot of people will be negatively affected by this change; few more than me. I run a so called Credit Piggybacking company. I have a wife who is 9 months pregnant. I am a real person with a family to support. I recognize that I will soon need to adjust my business to reflect these changes if I want to survive. You think that FICO 08 will actually stop the AU benefit? Yes, if they ever get around to it. Fair Isaac’s latest press release says they do not have a timetable on this revision and when they do update their software, it will take 12-18 months for the lending institutions to go out and buy the update and install it in their system; much like your Windows operating system…just because they released Vista, doesn’t mean you are going to go out and buy it tomorrow. Even this revision won't stop people like me from exploiting every possible loophole in their system. No more AU's...no problem...I'll just start selling joint account holder positions, or primary loan positions on secured installment loans.
The FICO system is as flawed and fascist as the company that owns this very chat room (that will probably get edited out).
The credit scoring and recording system is extremely flawed, unrealistic, and unreliable. It used to be that you would have to dress up in your Sunday Best, wash the car, and get a haircut before walking in to the local bank to ask for a loan. The banking and lending institutions have demanded a more reliable and efficient system, thus EXP, EQX, and TU. These companies specialize in collecting private and personal information about you and everyone else in this country. Did they ask for your permission to collect this information about you? Did you sign an opt-in agreement? Nope. When they incorrectly report information about you (MyFico.com says over 79% of all credit reports contain misinformation) how easy is it for you to correct the error? If their error negatively affects you and causes you to lose out on an opportunity to buy a home, business, or lower interest rate on a loan, can you place a claim to recoup damages against their Errors & Omissions insurance like you can with any bank, financial advisor, mortgage broker, or real estate broker? Uh, yeah right.
Let's take this a step further, the bureaus now take all of this stolen (...waiting for the TU employee/moderator/Nazi to edit that one, too) information about you and sell it to the banking institution or retailer you choose to do business with. Did you know that every time you ask someone to pull your credit they have to pay the bureaus for it? And I am sure you got a cut of that fee, seeing as how it is YOUR information and all. No, you didn't? Neither does anyone else.
So, now we have established that the 3 bureaus collect extremely personal and private information about you without your permission. They sell it for a profit. You do not get any of that money. Can it be any worse? Let's take a look. MyFico.com TruCredit.com MyFreeCreditReport.com all of these places that have illegally stolen your information are now selling it BACK TO YOU! We are all a bunch of idiots (I am included in this insult, by the way)!!
My point is simply this: If someone is going to steal private and personal information from me and make a profit from it, make it next to impossible to fix any incorrect information while it negatively affects me, not pay any damages caused by the misinformation, not pay me or even ask my permission to hold, record, and sell this information about me, then it is up to me to locate and exploit my own way of earning my deserved commission through the faults in that very system.
Good luck to all of you. Heil Hitler…I mean FICO! (edit…?)

BAiry796

I would not use term "fascism". Being a Jew, and having lost a lot of relatives in Hollocaust, I can asure you that there is no comparison between credit industry in the States and fascism.

At the same time, there are a few points in your post that sound very ligit to me.

.

1. Credit system is very flawed. To many mistakes made by CRA's, but burden of proof is on a consumer and not on the CRA.

2. Credit system hurts businesses. American business lost its spirit and incapable to make any decission without credit score and therefore lose clients/sales. I am a new immigrant in this country ( legal). I wanted to lease a car for my wife a while ago. I make decent salary, two small kids, bunch of university degrees, decent scores etc. We were refused lease becouse of shortness of credit history. The dealership did not have a business only becouse some algorithm. Did I get a car, of course I did.

3.I do not understand, why I have to pay to get information about myself and to pay in purpose to check if CRA reports my info correctly.