topic Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points in Understanding FICO® Scoring

update Crossing the boundary - new data points

bada_bing — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 07:00:06 GMT

I've been on a quest for 850 FICO 8 scores for 20 months now. I know it's

irrelevant, but it keeps me incentivized in gardening. I did my monthly CCT

pull and was shocked to find I crossed the finish line on TU and EQ. Yeahhh

I had been expecting I wouldn't make it to 850 until my newest account turned 2 years,

which will happen next March. Evidently "new accounts" isn't enough of a demerit to hold

me back. What evidently was holding me back was the balance owed on my mortgage

compared to the opening balance (utilization?). I just fell below 80% on the first of this month.

Evidently the 80% threshold is worth quite a few points to my profile. My scores moved from

last months pull:

TU 839 >>> 850

EQ 844 >>> 850

Curiously, my ex didn't change a point 849 >>> 849

Anyway, I am continuing on with "gardening". There isn't anything I need to app for at this

time. I am wondering when my EX score will catch up? I also wonder why EX didn't get a bump

at all when the other two had multiple point increases this month ? All my reports have identical data

except EX shows a closed Cap1 and a Citi card that were both closed in 2008 by lender (for non-use)

that the other two reports no longer have. The old cards should help rather than hinder EX I would think.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

NRB525 — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 06:11:04 GMT

Congratulations!

What is the last reported balance on each of your CC? Overall utilization on revolving?

Any other term loans like a car loan?

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

bada_bing — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 06:22:17 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
Congratulations!

What is the last reported balance on each of your CC? Overall utilization on revolving?
Any other term loans like a car loan?

All my cards reported zero except about $1000 on my BCP. That is 2% on the BCP and rounds up to 1% on all cards totalled.

I have 1 active mortgage that was opened 3 years ago in Jan. It is a refi and started at $118K and now is $93K. The loan to value

is under 30% but the current balance to original balance on this refi is 79%. Something to think about when you refi a mortgage.

I have 3 closed mortgages on my reports in good standing.

I have no installment loan history on my reports at all, it's been 20 years since I had an open car loan.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:13:14 GMT

@bada_bing wrote:
I've been on a quest for 850 FICO 8 scores for 20 months now. I know it's
irrelevant, but it keeps me incentivized in gardening. I did my monthly CCT
pull and was shocked to find I crossed the finish line on TU and EQ. Yeahhh

I had been expecting I wouldn't make it to 850 until my newest account turned 2 years,
which will happen next March. Evidently "new accounts" isn't enough of a demerit to hold
me back. What evidently was holding me back was the balance owed on my mortgage
compared to the opening balance (utilization?). I just fell below 80% on the first of this month.
Evidently the 80% threshold is worth quite a few points to my profile. My scores moved from
last months pull:
TU 839 >>> 850
EQ 844 >>> 850
Curiously, my ex didn't change a point 849 >>> 849

Anyway, I am continuing on with "gardening". There isn't anything I need to app for at this
time. I am wondering when my EX score will catch up? I also wonder why EX didn't get a bump
at all when the other two had multiple point increases this month ? All my reports have identical data
except EX shows a closed Cap1 and a Citi card that were both closed in 2008 by lender (for non-use)
that the other two reports no longer have. The old cards should help rather than hinder EX I would think.

Congratulations! Appreciate the data.

Inverse previously confirmed you can get to 850 with accounts under 2 years old. However, his AAoA was above 8 years with his young accounts. What is your AAoA? Could your AAoA have crossed a boundry? Does your AAoA show any difference among the CRAs?

Also, I would be interested to know if your mortgage scores changed at all. Do you have before/after mortgage scores available to post?

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

bada_bing — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:42:10 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

Congratulations! Appreciate the data.
Inverse previously confirmed you can get to 850 with accounts under 2 years old. However, his AAoA was above 8 years with his young accounts. What is your AAoA? Could your AAoA have crossed a boundry? Does your AAoA show any difference among the CRAs?
Also, I would be interested to know if your mortgage scores changed at all. Do you have before/after mortgage scores available to post?

My AAoA is 11.8 on EX, 11.2 on EQ & TU, oldest accout is 23.8 on all 3.

I have two accounts under 2 years on my reports. My Ink card doesn't appear on reports.

My Freedom card turns 2 next month and my SM turns 2 in March. I don't have any archived scores

other than FICO 8 from creditchecktotal.

I probably will pull from MyFico next month to see where I am on other score versions.

My file is thin, 5 active credit cards, 1 active mortgage. 3 closed mortgages and 2 closed cards.

No installment loans, auto loans or student loans at all. I would imagine my mortgage score is

okay and my auto score probably lags a lot.

I do find it curious that I gained so much in a month with EQ and especially TU. My utilization last month

was 2% spread over 3 cards verses less than 1% on only one card this month, but utilization tweeks haven't

been giving me more tha 3 points at most over the last 6-8 months. The only explanation I can come up with

for the jump in TU is that my mortgage crossed below 80% on my reports early this month.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:41:11 GMT

FYI - Your file is by no means "thin".

Also, you don't need to have an Auto loan on file for a high Fico auto score. My Fico 8 Auto scores are: EQ 884, TU 897 and EX 889 - last Auto loan I had was paid off in 1989.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

bada_bing — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 13:48:24 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
FYI - Your file is by no means "thin".

Also, you don't need to have an Auto loan on file for a high Fico auto score. My Fico 8 Auto scores are: EQ 884, TU 897 and EX 889 - last Auto loan I had was paid off in 1989.

I've gotten in the habit of thinking my file is thin because that was one of the scoring

factors listed in my reports - "To few accounts paid as agreed". I know that was just

boilerplate, but the credit bureaus do like to encourage apping . Another

thing that changed this month is that my reports no longer list any negative score factors.

I haven't gotten any more accounts, but their reasons went away.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 14:06:58 GMT

Curious, were your negative scoring factors on both TU and EQ or just the one with a score below 840?

It will be interesting what Fico scores list negative factors when you pull your 3B with 19 Fico scores. I have some personal data on when they disappear on mortgage, bankcard and auto scores. Inverse shared some data as well. Not enough yet to fill in the gaps.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

bada_bing — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 14:26:52 GMT

I had negative scoring factors on just TU last month when the score was 839.

The factors were

1. Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high

2. Too few accounts paid as agreed.

I checked my SM for my TU history and it shows that I had 839 two months ago

and 844 just a couple days before my mortgage posted below 80% for the first time.

It matches what CCT has recorded when the dates line up, but I only get an update

from Barclays every two months.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

Revelate — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 18:47:25 GMT

@bada_bing wrote:
I had negative scoring factors on just TU last month when the score was 839.
The factors were
1. Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high
2. Too few accounts paid as agreed.

I checked my SM for my TU history and it shows that I had 839 two months ago
and 844 just a couple days before my mortgage posted below 80% for the first time.
It matches what CCT has recorded when the dates line up, but I only get an update
from Barclays every two months.

1 was a ding as you saw, 2 is just one of those unarguable truths that get told to people with high scores. Can't be false, can't be sued.

Anyway I do greatly appreciate your neatly providing confirmation of 80% being the high installment utilization boundary; now just looking for the one somewhere between 50 and 20%

Many thanks!

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

ddemari — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:23:42 GMT

Thanks for sharing OP. Congrats on your high FICO scores! thats an accomplishment!

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

Kidcat — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 00:59:58 GMT

Congratulations OP. It's exciting. I have the same goal for no reason but just because!

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

NRB525 — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 05:07:02 GMT

@bada_bing wrote:
@NRB525 wrote:
Congratulations!

What is the last reported balance on each of your CC? Overall utilization on revolving?
Any other term loans like a car loan?

All my cards reported zero except about $1000 on my BCP. That is 2% on the BCP and rounds up to 1% on all cards totalled.

I have 1 active mortgage that was opened 3 years ago in Jan. It is a refi and started at $118K and now is $93K. The loan to value
is under 30% but the current balance to original balance on this refi is 79%. Something to think about when you refi a mortgage.
I have 3 closed mortgages on my reports in good standing.
I have no installment loan history on my reports at all, it's been 20 years since I had an open car loan.

Yes, this makes sense. In order to get to 850, I think one has to be zero risk of default, meaning almost nothing being borrowed.

Congrats! Thanks for the data.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

Thomas_Thumb — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 02:10:44 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@bada_bing wrote:
I had negative scoring factors on just TU last month when the score was 839.
The factors were
1. Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high
2. Too few accounts paid as agreed.

I checked my SM for my TU history and it shows that I had 839 two months ago
and 844 just a couple days before my mortgage posted below 80% for the first time.
It matches what CCT has recorded when the dates line up, but I only get an update
from Barclays every two months.
1 was a ding as you saw, 2 is just one of those unarguable truths that get told to people with high scores. Can't be false, can't be sued.

Anyway I do greatly appreciate your neatly providing confirmation of 80% being the high installment utilization boundary; now just looking for the one somewhere between 50 and 20%

Many thanks!

Yes, this is pretty good evidence that 80% may be a threshold for a mortgage only installment loan. However, CAPTOOL's previous data on a score change below 70% aggregate balance to loan ratio was compelling as well. Credit profile may come into play as it does with # cards reporting and credit card UT%.

Ultimately there may be more than 2 threshold ratios but clearly the lower ones may be invisible to many profiles if they are already at 850. Perhaps before/after scores from other Fico scoring models - that don't have buffers can help establish lower threshold levels [mortgage scores, or enhanced Auto/Bankcard scores]. Unfortunately, most people don't track all their Fico scores so this can be difficult.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

Revelate — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 17:47:25 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@bada_bing wrote:
I had negative scoring factors on just TU last month when the score was 839.
The factors were
1. Proportion of loan balances to loan amounts is too high
2. Too few accounts paid as agreed.

I checked my SM for my TU history and it shows that I had 839 two months ago
and 844 just a couple days before my mortgage posted below 80% for the first time.
It matches what CCT has recorded when the dates line up, but I only get an update
from Barclays every two months.
1 was a ding as you saw, 2 is just one of those unarguable truths that get told to people with high scores. Can't be false, can't be sued.

Anyway I do greatly appreciate your neatly providing confirmation of 80% being the high installment utilization boundary; now just looking for the one somewhere between 50 and 20%

Many thanks!
Yes, this is pretty good evidence that 80% may be a threshold for a mortgage only installment loan. However, CAPTOOL's previous data on a score change below 70% aggregate balance to loan ratio was compelling as well. Credit profile may come into play as it does with # cards reporting and credit card UT%.

Ultimately there may be more than 2 threshold ratios but clearly the lower ones may be invisible to many profiles if they are already at 850. Perhaps before/after scores from other Fico scoring models - that don't have buffers can help establish lower threshold levels [mortgage scores, or enhanced Auto/Bankcard scores]. Unfortunately, most people don't track all their Fico scores so this can be difficult.

Yeah, I'm kind of skeptical of there being more than 2 thresholds, there just isn't that much room between 50 and 20 (which based on my data seems to be the lower bound for a breakpoint).

I can't test for a good long while given I'm sitting 3 months into a 15 year mortgage unfortunately, but hopefully we'll get enough datapoints to be able to sort it one way or the other.

Conclusively it can be stated smaller utilization ratio on open installment loans is better though, which from a FICO optimization perspective is really all people need to know.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

reneasworld — Sun, 22 Nov 2015 05:00:37 GMT

Congrats!

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

Cmikul — Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:49:12 GMT

I thought the EX threshold for the mortgage was 66%.....

I had read elsewhere that the TU and EQ threshold's were higher than the EX.

66% is a long way from 80% though....that's a long time to go without usage on the cards.

maybe one of those things that might need to be revisited in the future.

maybe even calender marked for when you cross certain % threshold's of your mortage Re-Zero cards 2 months prior and take a snap shot again everytime.

#guineapig

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

IncrsCreditScore1 — Sun, 22 Nov 2015 18:52:01 GMT

Big, big, big congratulations, bada_bing. I want your score. Keep it up.

Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points

taxi818 — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 01:40:02 GMT

@bada_bing wrote:
I've been on a quest for 850 FICO 8 scores for 20 months now. I know it's
irrelevant, but it keeps me incentivized in gardening. I did my monthly CCT
pull and was shocked to find I crossed the finish line on TU and EQ. Yeahhh

I had been expecting I wouldn't make it to 850 until my newest account turned 2 years,
which will happen next March. Evidently "new accounts" isn't enough of a demerit to hold
me back. What evidently was holding me back was the balance owed on my mortgage
compared to the opening balance (utilization?). I just fell below 80% on the first of this month.
Evidently the 80% threshold is worth quite a few points to my profile. My scores moved from
last months pull:
TU 839 >>> 850
EQ 844 >>> 850
Curiously, my ex didn't change a point 849 >>> 849

Anyway, I am continuing on with "gardening". There isn't anything I need to app for at this
time. I am wondering when my EX score will catch up? I also wonder why EX didn't get a bump
at all when the other two had multiple point increases this month ? All my reports have identical data
except EX shows a closed Cap1 and a Citi card that were both closed in 2008 by lender (for non-use)
that the other two reports no longer have. The old cards should help rather than hinder EX I would think.

Impressive op. Impressive indeed. Congrats. Nice quote as well about bill collectors.

Re: Crossing the boundary - update -finally made it

bada_bing — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 06:01:04 GMT

Well, I logged onto my CCT account tonight to glance at my scores. There had been no

movement at all in any of my scores since I got the bump up on TU and EQ that put me to

my longterm goal of 850. EX hadn't moved and I was resigned to waiting it out for the next

minor milestones on my report. I have let my reported utilization drift back onto my daily driver

cards and currently have 3 cards of 5 reporting minor <1% balances. When I first cracked 850

on TU and EQ I had my reported utilization on only 1 card with a reported balance of less than 1%. I

wasn't expecting any changes for the next couple months and have been letting my spending report.

EX changed to 850 today ! I'm now at 850 FICO8 straight across the 3 bureaus I have no insight

into why the change on EX. If anything I wouldn't have been surprised by a point or two loss, as my

utilization isn't optimized anymore and I haven't crossed any suspected tier boundaries for account age

or loan to balance. I have no explanation unless EX actually "likes" for my profile to have more than

one account reporting a balance? The change is a negligible 1 point on EX, but that last point has been

stubborn. I really wonder now about the conventional wisdom that recommends only one card reporting

a balance for optimal scoring. At least for my profile and on EX only, that is not the case.

Anyway my current reported utilization on EX:

USAA 0 owed $25K CL

Freedom 0 owed $10K CL

BCP $131 owed $50K CL

SM $ 95 owed $18.8K CL

BoA AK $245 owed $50K CL

Anyway, it is the end of a FICO goal for me, and it took less time than I had anticipated. I was expecting it

to take at least 2+years of gardening. I got it in 20 months No place to go now but down, at least

as far as FICO8 is concerned.

topic Re: Crossing the boundary - new data points in Understanding FICO® Scoring

*update* Crossing the boundary - new data points

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Re: Crossing the boundary - update -finally made it

update Crossing the boundary - new data points