topic Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

galahad15 — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:17:11 GMT

Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model? (I also tried doing a search for "FICO Score 9" on the forum, but was unable to find any meaningful search results.) I recently ordered my 3 CRA scores and reports on MyFico, and they are apparently now listing FICO Score 9 values. What I found interesting was that my Score 9 values were significantly lower than my Score 8 values, for reasons I'm not quite sure of?

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:18:15 GMT

Try a Google search. It never fails.

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

galahad15 — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:20:51 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Try a Google search. It never fails.

Done, thanks for the helpful reminder.

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

Discover2016 — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:23:10 GMT

Was the FICO 9 much lower than the 8?

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

galahad15 — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:31:49 GMT

@Discover2016 wrote:
Was the FICO 9 much lower than the 8?

I experienced score drops of -13, -21, and -23, when comparing my current FICO Score 8 values with the corresponding Score 9 values for the 3 CRAs.

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:34:17 GMT

@galahad15 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Try a Google search. It never fails.

Done, thanks for the helpful reminder.

I saw this same thread under "Understanding Fico Scoring" or something along those lines. I know you were there because you have a rather long sig that's very easy to remember. The answers that were given were very vague at best. I thought of answering (about the differences) but figured it wasn't worth the effort (no pun) and simply just kept reading. BTW, I had just finished reading the differences between the two prior to coming to the boards....

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

CreditCuriosity — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:35:50 GMT

My Fico 9's are way lower I mean way lower than my 08's and lending scores(05/04 scores).. No places that I know of are using them as of yet or probably for the next year or two.. I tend to think they might need to work out the bugs.. I would be curious what the emphasis is on with the scores as they are WAY lower than my 04/08 scores. I hope no lenders use them anytime soon as they appear to be junk at this time at least for me personally.

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:39:46 GMT

@CreditCuriousity wrote:
My Fico 9's are way lower I mean way lower than my 08's and lending scores(05/04 scores).. No places that I know of are using them as of yet or probably for the next year or two.. I tend to think they might need to work out the bugs.. I would be curious what the emphasis is on with the scores as they are WAY lower than my 04/08 scores. I hope no lenders use them anytime soon as they appear to be junk at this time at least for me personally.

I lean towards the opposite - but you're a good guy so I'll leave it at that

Mines are about 50 points higher across but I'm not holding my breath about their usage anytime soon.

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

CreditCuriosity — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:49:43 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@CreditCuriousity wrote:
My Fico 9's are way lower I mean way lower than my 08's and lending scores(05/04 scores).. No places that I know of are using them as of yet or probably for the next year or two.. I tend to think they might need to work out the bugs.. I would be curious what the emphasis is on with the scores as they are WAY lower than my 04/08 scores. I hope no lenders use them anytime soon as they appear to be junk at this time at least for me personally.
I lean towards the opposite - but you're a good guy so I'll leave it at that

Mines are about 50 points higher across but I'm not holding my breath about their usage anytime soon.

It will be awhile until lenders adopt them.. I am pretty sure many of them are probably running test along side the current model they are using along with the 09 model and gathering information before switching over.. Just speculation though. They deffinetly penalize for different things alot more than the Mortgage or 08 scores do, completly different model it appears. Meh no sense it worrying about something I can't control and I don't forsee it going mainstream for at least a year if not more.

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

Imperfectfuture — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:40:29 GMT

@CreditCuriousity wrote:
My Fico 9's are way lower I mean way lower than my 08's and lending scores(05/04 scores).. No places that I know of are using them as of yet or probably for the next year or two.. I tend to think they might need to work out the bugs.. I would be curious what the emphasis is on with the scores as they are WAY lower than my 04/08 scores. I hope no lenders use them anytime soon as they appear to be junk at this time at least for me personally.

Mine are higher, in the optimal zone. It must knock folks down if any baddies, just don't know.

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

myjourney — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 16:31:36 GMT

Key differences can be found here

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Announcing-FICO-Score-9-in-FICO-Score-products/td-p/4469628

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

CYBERSAM — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 16:55:15 GMT

For me EQ and TU went up by 20+ but my EX came down 14 points. Note that I have most inq on EX, looks like FICO 9 dose not like inq. I also have 3 paid collection that is showing, so that could be the reason for increase.

So if I go by FICO 9 I'm over 700 but no point in using it yet till lenders start to recognize it!

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 02:18:18 GMT

I also saw a 20-30 drop in my FICO 9 scores vs. the FICO 8 scores. I seriously hate credit. Mine isn't bad, but it just feels like such a game. If you sneeze in the wrong direction your score will drop, at least that's what it feels like to me! I believe that anything that has such a huge impact on your life, and contains your personal information should be free to access whenever you want and how much you want! (After all, you can't tell these companies who track and moniter you to stop, so it's essentially a forced matter upon you!)It's your life in those scores, after all!! From renting an apt., to getting your water turned on, to getting a car, or even car ins. that's required by law (!), that doggone number should be free to view!!! Just my 2cents, rant over.

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

SouthJamaica — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 02:40:37 GMT

@galahad15 wrote:
Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model? (I also tried doing a search for "FICO Score 9" on the forum, but was unable to find any meaningful search results.) I recently ordered my 3 CRA scores and reports on MyFico, and they are apparently now listing FICO Score 9 values. What I found interesting was that my Score 9 values were significantly lower than my Score 8 values, for reasons I'm not quite sure of?

My FICO 9 scores are 30 to 40 points HIGHER than my FICO 8 scores, across all 3 bureaus & all 3 FICO 9 scoring models

FICO has publicized these 3 differences:

- Unpaid medical debt is now treated differently than other types of unpaid debt. Unpaid medical debt has less of a negative impact on a FICO Score 9
- Third party collections that have been paid off no longer have a negative impact
- Rental history, when it’s reported, factors into the score—this may be especially beneficial for people with a limited credit history
Thomas_Thumb is of the view that the following are also differences:between Fico 8 & 9:

-Fico 9 gives less negative weight to recent inquiries and lack of age of accounts

-Fico 9 gives more positive weight to smaller number of accounts reporting balances

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

Thomas_Thumb — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 13:29:27 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
My FICO 9 scores are 30 to 40 points HIGHER than my FICO 8 scores, across all 3 bureaus & all 3 FICO 9 scoring models

FICO has publicized these 3 differences:
Unpaid medical debt is now treated differently than other types of unpaid debt. Unpaid medical debt has less of a negative impact on a FICO Score 9
Third party collections that have been paid off no longer have a negative impact
Rental history, when it’s reported, factors into the score—this may be especially beneficial for people with a limited credit history
Thomas_Thumb is of the view that the following are also differences:between Fico 8 & 9:
-Fico 9 gives less negative weight to recent inquiries and lack of age of accounts
-Fico 9 gives more positive weight to smaller number of accounts reporting balances

SJ -

Fico 09 certainly does appear to be more forgiving to inquiries and opening new accounts (age of youngest account). It also does appear to ding score more if you report balances on more than (1, 2, 3 or 4 cards - profile dependent). I suspect a 40 point difference undoubtedly encompasses some other factor being weighed differently as well.

One thing that comes to mind relative to your profile is installment loans. Although Fico 08 is supposed to factor in closed installment loans in mix, most people report getting dinged id they don't have an open loan. Perhaps the ding relates to missing a scoring component in the "amount of debt" category. Regardless, you recently paid off and closed your only open installment loan [unless you opened a new one already]. Side note - assuming Fico 09 weighs # open accounts showing a balance more heavily, I wonder if amount of debt category points associated with installment loan/balance have been re-allocated to other category factors in Fico 09.

Limited poster data suggests: Fico 09 may give more weight (points) to closed installment loans on file than does Fico 08. If so, you don't need an open loan in Fico 09 to maximize score. That makes sense since a solid payment history on a closed loan SHOULD demonstrate creditworthiness as much as if not more so than an open loan.

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

SouthJamaica — Sun, 28 Feb 2016 16:07:54 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
My FICO 9 scores are 30 to 40 points HIGHER than my FICO 8 scores, across all 3 bureaus & all 3 FICO 9 scoring models

FICO has publicized these 3 differences:
Unpaid medical debt is now treated differently than other types of unpaid debt. Unpaid medical debt has less of a negative impact on a FICO Score 9
Third party collections that have been paid off no longer have a negative impact
Rental history, when it’s reported, factors into the score—this may be especially beneficial for people with a limited credit history
Thomas_Thumb is of the view that the following are also differences:between Fico 8 & 9:
-Fico 9 gives less negative weight to recent inquiries and lack of age of accounts
-Fico 9 gives more positive weight to smaller number of accounts reporting balances
SJ -

Fico 09 certainly does appear to be more forgiving to inquiries and opening new accounts (age of youngest account). It also does appear to ding score more if you report balances on more than (1, 2, 3 or 4 cards - profile dependent). I suspect a 40 point difference undoubtedly encompasses some other factor being weighed differently as well.

One thing that comes to mind relative to your profile is installment loans. Although Fico 08 is supposed to factor in closed installment loans in mix, most people report getting dinged id they don't have an open loan. Perhaps the ding relates to missing a scoring component in the "amount of debt" category. Regardless, you recently paid off and closed your only open installment loan [unless you opened a new one already]. Side note - assuming Fico 09 weighs # open accounts showing a balance more heavily, I wonder if amount of debt category points associated with installment loan/balance have been re-allocated to other category factors in Fico 09.

Limited poster data suggests: Fico 09 may give more weight (points) to closed installment loans on file than does Fico 08. If so, you don't need an open loan in Fico 09 to maximize score. That makes sense since a solid payment history on a closed loan SHOULD demonstrate creditworthiness as much as if not more so than an open loan.

Thomas, my profile data may provide perfect support for your hypothesis that the distinction between open and closed installment loans is of reduced importance in FICO 9, because the new little loan I just opened hasn't reported yet; it will not report until around March 5th.

Unfortunately, when that happens, I won't know immediately how it affects the FICO 8/FICO 9 relationship, as it appears that FICO 9 scores don't update until I get another 3 bureau report from MyFICO. I'll try to remember to update this post in late March, when I get my next 3 bureau report.

As you know, I totally agree with you that "a solid payment history on a closed loan SHOULD demonstrate creditworthiness as much as if not more so than an open loan".

I cannot fathom FICO's treatment of paying off a loan as a bad thing

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

iv — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 00:24:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I also saw a 20-30 drop in my FICO 9 scores vs. the FICO 8 scores. I seriously hate credit. Mine isn't bad, but it just feels like such a game. If you sneeze in the wrong direction your score will drop, at least that's what it feels like to me! I believe that anything that has such a huge impact on your life, and contains your personal information should be free to access whenever you want and how much you want! (After all, you can't tell these companies who track and moniter you to stop, so it's essentially a forced matter upon you!)It's your life in those scores, after all!! From renting an apt., to getting your water turned on, to getting a car, or even car ins. that's required by law (!), that doggone number should be free to view!!! Just my 2cents, rant over.

Indeed.

While the annual FCRA free-report (and various state-level additional ones), sites like CK/CS/etc, and the FICO Open Access program are helpful... I do believe that at-will access to one's own report and scoring is something consumers need to demand.

Saying more on that topic might trip the "no-politics" rule here, though... so I'll just leave it with "be an involved citizen".

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

Thomas_Thumb — Wed, 02 Mar 2016 14:04:34 GMT

@iv wrote:

Indeed.

While the annual FCRA free-report (and various state-level additional ones), sites like CK/CS/etc, and the FICO Open Access program are helpful... I do believe that at-will access to one's own report and scoring is something consumers need to demand.

Saying more on that topic might trip the "no-politics" rule here, though... so I'll just leave it with "be an involved citizen".

Don't want that!

Last October/November I wrote a couple non political posts discussing Fico 09 and more specifically what prompted Fico XD relative to VS 3.0 - on the same thread. I checked the thread the next day after the 1st post and it wasn't there anymore - it just had vanished. So I re-wrote and re-posted. An hour later "poof" the new post vanished. No private communication from MyFICO explaining why the posts were removed.

Oh well

http://blogs.creditcards.com/2015/10/new-fico-score-xd-promises-to-score-the-unscorable.php

http://www.pymnts.com/in-depth/2015/the-fall-of-the-fico-standard/

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/11/04/454237651/could-your-social-media-footprint-step-on-your-credit-history

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2015/10/08/new-fico-score-may-have-wider-impact-than-first-thought/

Add: One more link on Fico XD and Fico 9

https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.ncher.us/resource/collection/B7F5AAC0-F2A0-476D-A292-718BFF28EA3E/THURS%201100%20FICO.PDF

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

Anonymous — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 03:02:01 GMT

Absolutely! I forgot to add credit reports also!! But then again, MyFico.com would lose too much money from those of us concerned about our credit It would be amazing if our wonderful people in power would demand that this start to be a free public service for the people!!

Re: Does anyone know more about how FICO Score 9 differs from Score 8 model?

CreditDunce — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 04:10:12 GMT

When I first read about FICO 9, my first thought was if Medical and paid Baddies are weighed less, then all other baddies are weighed more.