topic Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7??? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 16:28:32 GMT

In January, I posted a thread about my scores going down from 710 to 680. The only alert was "dormant account becoming active". I cycled my sock drawer cards over the Christmas break but my SGV was 7 months since my last use. The other SD cards triggered an alert for being 5 months dormant but it did not change my score.

Today the final CC reported for the month of February. Only one card reported a balance and it is 25% of its limit and overall utilization is less than 5%. So today I pulled my 3B report to confirm there is no new negatives. I did the comparision of all 3 CRA and compared this to my report months ago when my scores were 710+. There is nothing new on the report.

The 710+ and 680 reports are almost identical, except my single CC is a few hundred dollars lower this month compared to several months ago. I am now starting to think that I was re-bucketed in January since it was 5 years post BK7 filing. The alert was the dormant account but the scores dropped 30+ points across all 3 CRAs.

Any thoughts?

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

Revelate — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 16:44:46 GMT

Interesting. Derogatories are bucketable, age of credit file appears to be bucketable, time since derogatory on FICO 8, possible or even maybe even likely given the number of scorecards; any idea what your older version of scores have done from DCU or anywhere else? It's been 2ish months since prettying up your utilization? As a control I'd let that report only a few bucks next month just for a complete sanity check... did you cross any other age boundaries besides the BK? Might have got kicked up a class given your credit file, there's multiple negative buckets and you might be compared against possibly prettier people? We don't really know specific buckets.

Strange though, most people with PR's including me, have generally gone up over time albeit slowly, and not taken a significant hit as a result of a derogatory aging at least with a single algorithm. I always assumed that my tax lien was my primary sort, and then I was compared to others in a similar situation based on whatever other criteria, when I am statistically far more likely have an optimized file than the folks I am compared to. I do wonder if something subtle happened in your case like an installment line got mis-reported; not saying you're not correct, just doesn't seem especially likely to me at the halfway point through a CH7 but I can't state anything with authority heh.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 17:19:41 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
Interesting. Derogatories are bucketable, age of credit file appears to be bucketable, time since derogatory on FICO 8, possible or even maybe even likely given the number of scorecards; any idea what your older version of scores have done from DCU or anywhere else? It's been 2ish months since prettying up your utilization? As a control I'd let that report only a few bucks next month just for a complete sanity check... did you cross any other age boundaries besides the BK? Might have got kicked up a class given your credit file, there's multiple negative buckets and you might be compared against possibly prettier people? We don't really know specific buckets.

Strange though, most people with PR's including me, have generally gone up over time albeit slowly, and not taken a significant hit as a result of a derogatory aging at least with a single algorithm. I always assumed that my tax lien was my primary sort, and then I was compared to others in a similar situation based on whatever other criteria, when I am statistically far more likely have an optimized file than the folks I am compared to. I do wonder if something subtle happened in your case like an installment line got mis-reported; not saying you're not correct, just doesn't seem especially likely to me at the halfway point through a CH7 but I can't state anything with authority heh.

My file since BK7 is perfect. Last year when I hit 4-year BK7 mark, I applied for a mortgage then after the closing I went on the Mother-of-all-app-sprees and gained about 100K over 10 cards. I took a hit for INQs and my AAOA dropped by one year. However as the accounts aged, my score increased back to then a few points past my scores pre-app. My Util is always less than 5% and individual card is always less than 25%. So nothing new here.

I received the alert in early January when SGV reported activity. I bought $7 for 2 large coffees from Tim Hortons on 27DEC15. I paid the card when I got back home. The card reported $0 balance. My last CC closes on the last day of the month. So the first few days of the next month is when all the reporting to CRAs is fininshed. I do understand that the reporting is on a rotating schedule; however, since I only carry a balance on one CC, my scores change the first of the month only.

In terms of your question about installment loan, I double checked it. I have 1 mortgage that reports about the 5th of the month, 3 student loans that report about the 8th of the month, a car loan that reports about the 12th of the month. I found nothing on my reports that would trigger a negative. All are reporting good for JAN and FEB16. So if this is the cause, I cannot see it on the report.

One more interesting item, when I run the FICO Simulator for on time payments for 24 months, my projected scores are all about 760. The previous simulator was only 720. It does not show any score increase until I hit the 23 month mark. Again this is the anniversary of my BK7 filing. So this would also indicate a rebucket.

So something happened in the first week of January which dropped my scores 30 points. It was NOT utilization, and I cannot find any errors in the detailed reports. I did drop myself off my wife's $5K Barclays in early December. My AAOA only dropped 2 months, so even if that was a contributor, I have gained back those 2 months.

My FICO mortgage score is much higher with this report than the last report. So whatever is causing the 30+ point drop is only affecting the FICO 8 score. My FICO 9 socre is 720+ across the board. So the activity is only affected by the FICO 8 algorithm.

Thanks for the discussion.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

Revelate — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 21:25:29 GMT

I don't think the simulator is a good datapoint actually.

It does seem to think I'll gain approximately 15-20 points in the next month or two by paying my bills on time, which is maybe feasible (though given my 1->2 year change was basically 3-4 points I am skeptical) since I should be crossing the 3 year AAOA mark sometime around then depending how it's precisely calculated in the algorithm. I also seem to gain some points back in July where the bulk of my inquiries should be falling out of the scoring window, that's legitimate as well.

Where it is odd though, when I extend it out it does marginally go up, but I have a massive event coming up in 11/17 where my tax lien comes off (my collection and lates fall off before then) and it doesn't seem to pick that up even when I'm comfortable in stating I will be 20+ points above where it suggests I will be at that point. Clean file with 4.5 years AAOA is better than a 745 even if it will take me a seriously long time to approach or break an 800 given my wretched installment utilization.

Not sure I can really suggest anything else for you, there are some unknowns in the algorithm and bucketing is absolutely one of those, entirely possible that you did get re-bucketed based on BK age, I just didn't see it with my tax lien data personally but I'm only one other datapoint and tax liens may be scored differently than BK's on multiple fronts.

I have also seen one report suggesting that revolving utilization and similar can be bucketed, and that sometimes a payment may not be instant in time change to score... statistically it doesn't happen often, but it's been stated it has, not sure on the quality of the data admittedly; however, if your score mystically goes up in another couple of months, maybe something to it.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Sat, 05 Mar 2016 21:42:05 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
I don't think the simulator is a good datapoint actually.

It does seem to think I'll gain approximately 15-20 points in the next month or two by paying my bills on time, which is maybe feasible (though given my 1->2 year change was basically 3-4 points I am skeptical) since I should be crossing the 3 year AAOA mark sometime around then depending how it's precisely calculated in the algorithm. I also seem to gain some points back in July where the bulk of my inquiries should be falling out of the scoring window, that's legitimate as well.

Where it is odd though, when I extend it out it does marginally go up, but I have a massive event coming up in 11/17 where my tax lien comes off (my collection and lates fall off before then) and it doesn't seem to pick that up even when I'm comfortable in stating I will be 20+ points above where it suggests I will be at that point. Clean file with 4.5 years AAOA is better than a 745 even if it will take me a seriously long time to approach or break an 800 given my wretched installment utilization.

Not sure I can really suggest anything else for you, there are some unknowns in the algorithm and bucketing is absolutely one of those, entirely possible that you did get re-bucketed based on BK age, I just didn't see it with my tax lien data personally but I'm only one other datapoint and tax liens may be scored differently than BK's on multiple fronts.

I have also seen one report suggesting that revolving utilization and similar can be bucketed, and that sometimes a payment may not be instant in time change to score... statistically it doesn't happen often, but it's been stated it has, not sure on the quality of the data admittedly; however, if your score mystically goes up in another couple of months, maybe something to it.

Thanks for your comments.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 03:42:01 GMT

@ Revelate,

I checked my DCU scores and guess what? They have NOT been affected. NOV15=700, DEC15=700, JAN16=701 and Feb16=701.

So now what do you think? FICO8 rebuckets but FICO04 does not?

This is very interesting.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

Revelate — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 03:53:30 GMT

@cem13 wrote:
@ Revelate,

I checked my DCU scores and guess what? They have NOT been affected. NOV15=700, DEC15=700, JAN16=701 and Feb16=701.

So now what do you think? FICO8 rebuckets but FICO04 does not?

This is very interesting.

Possibly, the two big changes from a resultant score perspective I'm personally aware of anyway:

1) More scorecards on FICO 8 aka more buckets you could be sorted into.

2) Installment utilization factors on FICO 8, not in FICO 04 (hence my earlier question about something awkward in the installment lines).

There's some other intrinsic differences but not what might explain what you've stumbled into in my estimation; least in my experience FICO 8 was more time sensitive on derogatories (which might factor somehow with you) vs. older versions if you had it, was pretty equivalent regardless of where it was in the time domain and that seems to hold true for any PR type derogatory.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 03:59:46 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
Possibly, the two big changes from a resultant score perspective I'm personally aware of anyway:
1) More scorecards on FICO 8 aka more buckets you could be sorted into.
2) Installment utilization factors on FICO 8, not in FICO 04 (hence my earlier question about something awkward in the installment lines).

There's some other intrinsic differences but not what might explain what you've stumbled into in my estimation; least in my experience FICO 8 was generally more lenient on recent derogatories though on old ones, seem to be pretty equivalent now but I don't have good access to TU 04 for real comparison purposes unlike what I've traditionally had between EQ Beacon 5 and Beacon 9.

I will go back through my installment loans again. As I mentioned, I have 1 mortgage opened in MAR15; starting balance $85K and current balance is $78K. Three 3 Student Loans opened in SEP05, SEP06, and SEP07; starting balance ~$15K each with current balance ~$6K each. One refinanced car loan AUG14 starting balance ~$14K and current balance ~$7K.

I have several loans closed prior to BK7, 2 mortgages IIB, 2 home equity IIB, and one student loan closed AUG13 PIF.

What should I be looking for with these loans?

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

Revelate — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 04:23:44 GMT

@cem13 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
Possibly, the two big changes from a resultant score perspective I'm personally aware of anyway:
1) More scorecards on FICO 8 aka more buckets you could be sorted into.
2) Installment utilization factors on FICO 8, not in FICO 04 (hence my earlier question about something awkward in the installment lines).

There's some other intrinsic differences but not what might explain what you've stumbled into in my estimation; least in my experience FICO 8 was generally more lenient on recent derogatories though on old ones, seem to be pretty equivalent now but I don't have good access to TU 04 for real comparison purposes unlike what I've traditionally had between EQ Beacon 5 and Beacon 9.

I will go back through my installment loans again. As I mentioned, I have 1 mortgage opened in MAR15; starting balance $85K and current balance is $78K. Three 3 Student Loans opened in SEP05, SEP06, and SEP07; starting balance ~$15K each with current balance ~$6K each. One refinanced car loan AUG14 starting balance ~$14K and current balance ~$7K.

I have several loans closed prior to BK7, 2 mortgages IIB, 2 home equity IIB, and one student loan closed AUG13 PIF.

What should I be looking for with these loans?

What I would personally be looking for is comparing the good score report with the lower score report:

1) Are the loan types reporting the same?

2) Are the original balances reporting the same?

3) Anything different in the responsibilty or term lines?

That sort of thing though I think that covers the majority of the potential differences.

It's sorta unlikely but just trying to rule out possibilities honestly, rebucketing is really really hard to positively prove and your situation is way way outside normal at least to my understanding of the algorithm . Which is admittedly limited.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 02:30:42 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
What I would personally be looking for is comparing the good score report with the lower score report:

1) Are the loan types reporting the same?
2) Are the original balances reporting the same?
3) Anything different in the responsibilty or term lines?

That sort of thing though I think that covers the majority of the potential differences.

It's sorta unlikely but just trying to rule out possibilities honestly, rebucketing is really really hard to positively prove and your situation is way way outside normal at least to my understanding of the algorithm . Which is admittedly limited.

I reviewed my 3B report. Here are a few things that are different over the past few months.

1) CLI on SGV $5k -> $5,800 via Luv Button (balance $0)

2) CLI on Menards (Cap1) $5k -> $7,800 via Luv Button (balance $0)

3) I removed myself as AU from my wife's Barclay's Card in NOV15 but it reported in JAN16. It was opened APR12 so there was no hit to my AAOA. Her CL is only $5K so it does affect my Util %. It shows "terminated" on the report.

I did not see any changes to my installment accounts. They are updating monthly as I pay them down.

Any thoughts?

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 03:20:39 GMT

Hmm - so the only significant difference that coincides timewise is the AU termination in January - yes?

The increase in CLIs don't hurt score but may not help score either if your UT% is low in both cases.

Any hard inquieies between November and January relating to other activities? Any change in # cards reporting a balance?

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

Revelate — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 05:12:36 GMT

@cem13 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
What I would personally be looking for is comparing the good score report with the lower score report:

1) Are the loan types reporting the same?
2) Are the original balances reporting the same?
3) Anything different in the responsibilty or term lines?

That sort of thing though I think that covers the majority of the potential differences.

It's sorta unlikely but just trying to rule out possibilities honestly, rebucketing is really really hard to positively prove and your situation is way way outside normal at least to my understanding of the algorithm . Which is admittedly limited.

I reviewed my 3B report. Here are a few things that are different over the past few months.
1) CLI on SGV $5k -> $5,800 via Luv Button (balance $0)
2) CLI on Menards (Cap1) $5k -> $7,800 via Luv Button (balance $0)
3) I removed myself as AU from my wife's Barclay's Card in NOV15 but it reported in JAN16. It was opened APR12 so there was no hit to my AAOA. Her CL is only $5K so it does affect my Util %. It shows "terminated" on the report.

I did not see any changes to my installment accounts. They are updating monthly as I pay them down.

Any thoughts?

I'm kinda at a loss to add any more than I have or what TT suggested in going back to basics and ruling out maybe something obvious that got overlooked (though I doubt that's the case here, you're more methodical than most).

I know it's a cop out answer but I think waiting to see if there's a magic swing back in call it 4 months is appropriate and see if it was some other latent bucketing, but if you stay at the lower score range with your utilization relatively minimal and fixed, I think you may well be correct that you were rebucketed on the BK. It's certainly plausible anyway given we're a little in the dark on the negative score cards.

It is an interesting datapoint to be sure, I don't recall seeing similar but given the number of negative scorecards, age may well factor into that derogatory wise. I didn't see that with my tax liens though but EX/TU wouldn't have likely exhibited that as I had an ancient tax lien that fell out of SOL which was likely a bucket if there were, but I did not see that on EQ unless tax liens are on different timelines (which to be honest, they are in the rest of the algorithm) for something like bucketing and I was already over the breakpoint upon joining the forum. It's been a slow progression but the trend has always been upward, other than my getting whacked for my installment utilization bouncing around.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 04:46:45 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
Hmm - so the only significant difference that coincides timewise is the AU termination in January - yes?
.
The increase in CLIs don't hurt score but may not help score either if your UT% is low in both cases.

Any hard inquieies between November and January relating to other activities? Any change in # cards reporting a balance?

Yes. The only significant difference in JAN16 was the AU. I had a new account (Amazon store) that I apped on 15DEC15 and reported shortly after a small balance. It triggered the "new account" but no point loss. It reported $0 in FEB16. No point loss for the INQ alert. I apped 01FEB16 for Amex Delta Gold (SL of $10K) and it has NOT reported yet. My statement closes 15MAR16 and I will PIF and enusre it reports $0. Again, no point loss for the INQ.

So the Amazon did report but my AAOA only lost 2 months. I will lose another 2 months when my Delta Gold reports this month. My AAOA is a tad over 5 years currently and I expect to stay above 5 years across all 3 CRAs.

The only other alert was "dormant account recently became active". My SGV reported a $0 balance in JAN16 with useage of $7 (Seven dollars). The point drop came with this alert in early JAN16 for EQ and TU. EQ only lost 10 points. I wrote in another thread about the dormant account and most everyone agreed that a $0 balance activity should not cause a 34 point drop but something else in my CR. So I waited for the complete monthly cycle to see if my scores rebound and they have not. I have several INQ that will age to one year next month so I expect to see ~ 10 point gain as these hit the one year mark.

This is NOT a big problem for me. I, like both of you, am interested in the science. My FICO4 from DCU actually went up one point and my mortgage scores when up since last year at this time.

I will apply for a small $20,000 (Twenty Thousand) vacant land mortgage this month in preparation for a small cabin-in-the-woods. Since my middle mortgage score is 720, I will have no problem with a conventional mortgage with 20% down. The kicker is the interest rate is likely to be 4.5~5% because of the property being vacant. I will get a 10 year note so my overall interest amount is low.

Thanks to both of you for responding and increasing my knowledge and giving me something to investigate. I will let this ride and keep an eye on this. Again this is not a big deal to me to gain those points back before I apply for my mortgage #2. I do not have any more wishlist cards so I do not plan on applying for any more CCs.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 16:11:39 GMT

@ Revelate

Here is one more thought on my file. In DEC15, I applied for Amazon store card and made a purchase. It reported within a week. Then in JAN16, it reported on the normal cycle (within 3 weeks of previous report). So Amazon reported twice for the same account within one billing cycle. The second report caught me off guard and I had $1600 / $5000 =32% UTIL. Then I PIF and in FEB16 & MAR16 it reported $0 balance.

So is it possible that the new account reporting twice, once at 20% util then the second at 32% util; would cause the drop? The issue is that the score should have rebound once the PIF hit in FEB16.

Is it possible that the new account did not get scored until JAN16 as opposed to the initial report of DEC15? In other words, was the initial reporting not scored or viewed differently than the normal monthly scoring?

I am thinking of canceling the card I like it but I dont NEED it. Would closing the account help?

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

Revelate — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 17:31:44 GMT

@cem13 wrote:
@ Revelate

Here is one more thought on my file. In DEC15, I applied for Amazon store card and made a purchase. It reported within a week. Then in JAN16, it reported on the normal cycle (within 3 weeks of previous report). So Amazon reported twice for the same account within one billing cycle. The second report caught me off guard and I had $1600 / $5000 =32% UTIL. Then I PIF and in FEB16 & MAR16 it reported $0 balance.

So is it possible that the new account reporting twice, once at 20% util then the second at 32% util; would cause the drop? The issue is that the score should have rebound once the PIF hit in FEB16.

Is it possible that the new account did not get scored until JAN16 as opposed to the initial report of DEC15? In other words, was the initial reporting not scored or viewed differently than the normal monthly scoring?

I am thinking of canceling the card I like it but I dont NEED it. Would closing the account help?

If a tradeline gets reported in a halfway house state (sometimes you get an early report without the full details in it) I'm pretty sure FICO excludes it; making decisions based on obviously broken information would just be patently stupid so I'm fairly confident in that especially as all sorts of random trash likely winds up in the database over time so there'd have to be some sanity checking / error handling when looking at tradelines. It's possible it wasn't scored to 1/16 as a result but you'd likely have to go look at historical reports to see if there was a difference. If I were good about weekly refreshing my CK data could probably do that on my own file as an example, or CCT or if you got lucky FICO Essentials or what not.

If it only reported the single tradeline and it was reported accurately, as many reports in a month as get made doesn't matter: I routinely have Chase report twice a month now and never any flakiness there; revolving utilization has no memory anyway.

I don't know whether closing the account would help, we've never gotten good store card data. Once I get clear of the AAOA 2->3 year breakpoint which is probably around May or June (TU, one month behind as missing a tradeline heh) for me, I'm going to close my Walmart card which is my only store card and see if I can get a solid datapoint, up, down, or indifferent as it comes to retail tradelines. I'm guessing I'll be flat but hard to say, but it's easy enough to test just in process of cleaning up my revolving utilization now anyway so just have to maintain it for 3 months, not hard to get the quality datapoint currently is my thinking since I need to stay clean from here for possible school financing come September and I'm trying to catch the AAOA transition anyway.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:09:22 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
If a tradeline gets reported in a halfway house state (sometimes you get an early report without the full details in it) I'm pretty sure FICO excludes it; making decisions based on obviously broken information would just be patently stupid so I'm fairly confident in that especially as all sorts of random trash likely winds up in the database over time so there'd have to be some sanity checking / error handling when looking at tradelines. It's possible it wasn't scored to 1/16 as a result but you'd likely have to go look at historical reports to see if there was a difference. If I were good about weekly refreshing my CK data could probably do that on my own file as an example, or CCT or if you got lucky FICO Essentials or what not.

If it only reported the single tradeline and it was reported accurately, as many reports in a month as get made doesn't matter: I routinely have Chase report twice a month now and never any flakiness there; revolving utilization has no memory anyway.

I don't know whether closing the account would help, we've never gotten good store card data. Once I get clear of the AAOA 2->3 year breakpoint which is probably around May or June (TU, one month behind as missing a tradeline heh) for me, I'm going to close my Walmart card which is my only store card and see if I can get a solid datapoint, up, down, or indifferent as it comes to retail tradelines. I'm guessing I'll be flat but hard to say, but it's easy enough to test just in process of cleaning up my revolving utilization now anyway so just have to maintain it for 3 months, not hard to get the quality datapoint currently is my thinking since I need to stay clean from here for possible school financing come September and I'm trying to catch the AAOA transition anyway.

Thanks for the quick reply. It is greatly appreciated. I am now suspecting you are correct. The first report of Amazon in DEC15 did not get scored fully. Then in JAN16 when it reported, I took a big hit (34 pts). I PIF in FEB16 but the score did not change.

So there must be a trigger for the amazon store card. My AAOA is 5 years+ with the hit so that is not the cause. Maybe it is because a store card is only a few months old? I do not need the Amazon card anyway so I will just close it and see what happens.

My summer home mortgage company uses TU 8 only. That happens to be my losest at 679 and 680 is the minimum. My finances are great with a DTI under 20% so the LO is encouraging me to apply and "lets see your entire file". All I need is ONE-FRIGGING-POINT to be in the clear.

Also who uses FICO 8 scoring for a mortgage anyway? Then to boot, they only pull TU. So I do not get the advantage of taking the median score. Oh well, I guess I learned a little more about FICO scoring.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

Revelate — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:31:35 GMT

@cem13 wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
If a tradeline gets reported in a halfway house state (sometimes you get an early report without the full details in it) I'm pretty sure FICO excludes it; making decisions based on obviously broken information would just be patently stupid so I'm fairly confident in that especially as all sorts of random trash likely winds up in the database over time so there'd have to be some sanity checking / error handling when looking at tradelines. It's possible it wasn't scored to 1/16 as a result but you'd likely have to go look at historical reports to see if there was a difference. If I were good about weekly refreshing my CK data could probably do that on my own file as an example, or CCT or if you got lucky FICO Essentials or what not.

If it only reported the single tradeline and it was reported accurately, as many reports in a month as get made doesn't matter: I routinely have Chase report twice a month now and never any flakiness there; revolving utilization has no memory anyway.

I don't know whether closing the account would help, we've never gotten good store card data. Once I get clear of the AAOA 2->3 year breakpoint which is probably around May or June (TU, one month behind as missing a tradeline heh) for me, I'm going to close my Walmart card which is my only store card and see if I can get a solid datapoint, up, down, or indifferent as it comes to retail tradelines. I'm guessing I'll be flat but hard to say, but it's easy enough to test just in process of cleaning up my revolving utilization now anyway so just have to maintain it for 3 months, not hard to get the quality datapoint currently is my thinking since I need to stay clean from here for possible school financing come September and I'm trying to catch the AAOA transition anyway.
Thanks for the quick reply. It is greatly appreciated. I am now suspecting you are correct. The first report of Amazon in DEC15 did not get scored fully. Then in JAN16 when it reported, I took a big hit (34 pts). I PIF in FEB16 but the score did not change.

So there must be a trigger for the amazon store card. My AAOA is 5 years+ with the hit so that is not the cause. Maybe it is because a store card is only a few months old? I do not need the Amazon card anyway so I will just close it and see what happens.

My summer home mortgage company uses TU 8 only. That happens to be my losest at 679 and 680 is the minimum. My finances are great with a DTI under 20% so the LO is encouraging me to apply and "lets see your entire file". All I need is ONE-FRIGGING-POINT to be in the clear.

Also who uses FICO 8 scoring for a mortgage anyway? Then to boot, they only pull TU. So I do not get the advantage of taking the median score. Oh well, I guess I learned a little more about FICO scoring.

Well if you decide to close the account I'd certainly be interested in the data point.

There's two possibilities neither of which have been rigorously confirmed:

Store cards are counted differently, this was the case under FICO NextGen but I haven't been able to find evidence of it for FICO 04 and later... that doesn't mean it doesn't count, it's just not in the literature or reason codes that I could find when I went looking. There was one post from a former FICO employee (Barry) who suggested there was indeed different qualities of tradelines, I suppose similar to the Michelin star ratings.
Tradeline seasoning boundary at 6 months (or some greater time period potentially now); this information came from off the forum from a buddy of mine who'd worked in close proximity with someone implementing the algorithm 20+ years ago. Quality of data therefore horrifically suspect even if I know the exchange did take place, it was a while ago and the algorithm has changed many times over the past 20 years.

I've never seen a drop for the second theory, every drop I've taken as a result of new tradelines reporting has been explicitly tied to AAOA (FICO 04 and 8) or installment ratios (FICO 8), but I've never been clean for 2+ years of my life either from a new accounts perspective which has been pontificated by some of the people chasing 850, though I have been for more than 1 year so the boundaries may just be different.

Holy something snacks re: mortgage company! Which one is it? A portfolio lender can do whatever they want since they're keeping the loan on the books, but we've only had one report of anyone not using the FICO 04/98 industry standard... ever as near as I can tell on the mortgage forum, and even then they pulled all three FICO 8's and took the mid score just like the traditional model.

Admittedly you could put a blindfold on after drinking 2 fifths of Scotch and still be able to hit a mortgage lender using the standard trimerge with a dart, so if TU 8 is to your disadvantage you could find a different lender.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Sat, 12 Mar 2016 01:35:17 GMT

I closed the account. It reports on the 14th so I will know Tuesday or Wednesday. I will keep you informed.

I did call a different Mortgage company and they use the traditional Mortgage scores and use the median score. This is good because my median mortgage score is 727.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

Revelate — Sat, 12 Mar 2016 02:11:21 GMT

@cem13 wrote:
I closed the account. It reports on the 14th so I will know Tuesday or Wednesday. I will keep you informed.

I did call a different Mortgage company and they use the traditional Mortgage scores and use the median score. This is good because my median mortgage score is 727.

Right on, if you would PM me the name of the portfolio lender, interested in looking them up even if I'd be an idiot to use them personally with my TU file heh.

Re: Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

cem13 — Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:56:53 GMT

@ Revelate

I closed my Amazon store card on Friday night. It reported to Experian this morning. Guess what? No change in score. I will keep an eye on EQ and TU over the next day or so and report back.

Now I am really perplexed.