topic Re: High achiever question in Understanding FICO® Scoring

High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 03:31:48 GMT

I just spent some time reading the high achiever (760 plus crowd ) thread. Very interesting and motivating. A ton of the utilization theory . This sounds good but seems tough to apply. Hard work is rewarded..of course. I would like to know how much utilization one can have and still have 750 plus credit.

My problem would be very normal, I imagine. I want to use the card and pay it back as I please.

Also, to leave 1% of total available is .. I don't even want to do the math. BUT I WILL NEED AN ASSET LOAD OF CREDIT !!

Is there a happy median of revolving balance that I can hope to have?

If my AC is 10,000 and If Ieave 2,000 once in awhile, what might I expect ?

I am concerned about having to apply for 100,000 at least.

My scores are just above 700 and 750 would be nice.

I have about 12,000 AV . .2000 balance

Never missed a payment.

Low income.

my low income ( 32,0004/yr) might lead to denials which turn into inqs. (Vicious circle, I know)

Ideas?...

Re: High achiever question

cem13 — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 03:51:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Is there a happy median of revolving balance that I can hope to have?
If my AC is 10,000 and If Ieave 2,000 once in awhile, what might I expect ?
I am concerned about having to apply for 100,000 at least.
My scores are just above 700 and 750 would be nice.
I have about 12,000 AV . .2000 balance
Never missed a payment.
Low income.
my low income ( 32,0004/yr) might lead to denials which turn into inqs. (Vicious circle, I know)
Ideas?...

The key is to have less than 30% of a single card's balance AND overall untilization under 10%. The lower the better but NEVER 0. So a 20% utilization overall is will cost you some points. If you carry a balance of $2000, then you will need one card at $10K (which you have) AND a total credit limit of about $60K. You will not need $100K in available credit if you only carry $2K.

Do you have an installment loan? If not, go get one tomorrow. This is very important to scoring.

Raising the FICO scores is like raising a child. There are going to be a few boo-boos along the way. So dont be afraid of INQs but be mindful. Only apply to those cards that you have a chance to get a high limit. I would stay away from large, big box banks and stick with credit unions. Navy, Penfed, NASA, and many others will give out high limit cards that will grow over time.

You can read about those CU in other threads.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 03:59:29 GMT

@cem13 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

Is there a happy median of revolving balance that I can hope to have?
If my AC is 10,000 and If Ieave 2,000 once in awhile, what might I expect ?
I am concerned about having to apply for 100,000 at least.
My scores are just above 700 and 750 would be nice.
I have about 12,000 AV . .2000 balance
Never missed a payment.
Low income.
my low income ( 32,0004/yr) might lead to denials which turn into inqs. (Vicious circle, I know)
Ideas?...
The key is to have less than 30% of a single card's balance AND overall untilization under 10%. The lower the better but NEVER 0. So a 20% utilization overall is will cost you some points. If you carry a balance of $2000, then you will need one card at $10K (which you have) AND a total credit limit of about $60K. You will not need $100K in available credit if you only carry $2K.

Do you have an installment loan? If not, go get one tomorrow. This is very important to scoring.

Raising the FICO scores is like raising a child. There are going to be a few boo-boos along the way. So dont be afraid of INQs but be mindful. Only apply to those cards that you have a chance to get a high limit. I would stay away from large, big box banks and stick with credit unions. Navy, Penfed, NASA, and many others will give out high limit cards that will grow over time.

You can read about those CU in other threads.

Thanks..I have an auto loan half way through..

The credit union is a good idea.

There is just so much to learn...at least the community here is wonderful.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:07:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@cem13 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

Is there a happy median of revolving balance that I can hope to have?
If my AC is 10,000 and If Ieave 2,000 once in awhile, what might I expect ?
I am concerned about having to apply for 100,000 at least.
My scores are just above 700 and 750 would be nice.
I have about 12,000 AV . .2000 balance
Never missed a payment.
Low income.
my low income ( 32,0004/yr) might lead to denials which turn into inqs. (Vicious circle, I know)
Ideas?...
The key is to have less than 30% of a single card's balance AND overall untilization under 10%. The lower the better but NEVER 0. So a 20% utilization overall is will cost you some points. If you carry a balance of $2000, then you will need one card at $10K (which you have) AND a total credit limit of about $60K. You will not need $100K in available credit if you only carry $2K.

Do you have an installment loan? If not, go get one tomorrow. This is very important to scoring.

Raising the FICO scores is like raising a child. There are going to be a few boo-boos along the way. So dont be afraid of INQs but be mindful. Only apply to those cards that you have a chance to get a high limit. I would stay away from large, big box banks and stick with credit unions. Navy, Penfed, NASA, and many others will give out high limit cards that will grow over time.

You can read about those CU in other threads.
Thanks..I have an auto loan half way through..
The credit union is a good idea.
There is just so much to learn...at least the community here is wonderful.

P.S.

I have

Citi DC

Chase slate

Another m/c and visa

Is it better to grow these to 60 grand or get more cards.

I HAVE ONLY 12000 ...IN AC

I am in no hurry..I feel good with these four. I have less than a year with the cards..2 years with the car payment

Re: High achiever question

NRB525 — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:07:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I just spent some time reading the high achiever (760 plus crowd ) thread. Very interesting and motivating. A ton of the utilization theory . This sounds good but seems tough to apply. Hard work is rewarded..of course. I would like to know how much utilization one can have and still have 750 plus credit.
My problem would be very normal, I imagine. I want to use the card and pay it back as I please.
Also, to leave 1% of total available is .. I don't even want to do the math. BUT I WILL NEED AN ASSET LOAD OF CREDIT !!
Is there a happy median of revolving balance that I can hope to have?
If my AC is 10,000 and If Ieave 2,000 once in awhile, what might I expect ?
I am concerned about having to apply for 100,000 at least.
My scores are just above 700 and 750 would be nice.
I have about 12,000 AV . .2000 balance
Never missed a payment.
Low income.
my low income ( 32,0004/yr) might lead to denials which turn into inqs. (Vicious circle, I know)
Ideas?...

How many cards do you have? (3 seems to be a good place to be for scoring)

What is the limit on each (better limits can help utilization)

When was each opened (longer age of accounts helps)

With 3 cards, limits not too much more than you have now, and most important, a long time with the cards and no lates of any kind, 750 is within reach, certainly. The "long time" thing is the most important part. Once you get utilization under control, and stay away from any late payments, time takes over and gets you a better score.

The small installment loan can help, but is not mandatory to get to FICO 8 750. Based on what others posted here, I set one up at my CU with a $500 secured savings, $500 term loan that pays back at $9.02 per month for 5 years, and is just about down to 80% after I helped it along with a $50 first payment.

Re: High achiever question

cem13 — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:16:24 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
P.S.
I have
Citi DC
Chase slate
Another m/c and visa
Is it better to grow these to 60 grand or get more cards.
I HAVE ONLY 12000 ...IN AC
I am in no hurry..I feel good with these four. I have less than a year with the cards..2 years with the car payment

The problem is that big banks like Chase and Citi are conservative with CLIs. So in a perfect world, yes it is better to grow your current cards to $60K without a hit to the INQ and AAOA. I doubt you will get there from here. You will need to get more available credit.

There is nothing wrong with these cards and the lower limits they give you. But it is a YMMV type situation.

But if you are in no hurry anyway, bite the bullet and app for one or two CU cards. They have higher SL and the CLIs are much easier to get. My Navy Fed card started at $5K then after 6 months of heavy use, I asked for a CLI to $25K and the system gave it to me. So CU are better for SL and CLIs in my opinion.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:25:39 GMT

I really like the CU idea. I am in San Diego but not in the Navy or Marines like many here. I will search generic credit unions and open a checking account and shoot for some cards..Great idea the more I think of it.

Re: High achiever question

cem13 — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:34:07 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I really like the CU idea. I am in San Diego but not in the Navy or Marines like many here. I will search generic credit unions and open a checking account and shoot for some cards..Great idea the more I think of it.

Make sure you do your homework. Some CUs are more conservative than the Big Banks. Keep in mind that many CUs will pull for membership then another for the CC.

There are some that only pull once. If you can get an "in" to Navy, you will not be sorry. They have very strict membership policies but once you are in, it is like credit heaven.

Check the credit card data base (google it).

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 05:23:55 GMT

What Thread could I use to ask for good credit unions in San Diego County?

I always struggle with where to put my questions.

Re: High achiever question

Revelate — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 05:31:50 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
What Thread could I use to ask for good credit unions in San Diego County?
I always struggle with where to put my questions.

San Diego County Credit Union is probably the best one down there by a solid margin though you'd have to look up their credit extensions as someone else suggested, but I haven't really done anything with them in the past 12 years so it's possible it might've changed but such things don't turn over quickly.

A bunch of CU's now take nationwide applications for a small donation to a charity (usually $20-25); if I wanted broad access to a solid product lineup I'd probably go Penfed if you didn't need the ability to walk into a branch. Some other lenders do things better (like DCU for home equity loans or HELOCs, I'm sort of in shock at those products, still after having found that 2 weeks ago) but they don't have interesting credit cards TBH where Penfed does plus does well on a bunch of other things like auto loans.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 05:57:42 GMT

THA

@Revelate wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
What Thread could I use to ask for good credit unions in San Diego County?
I always struggle with where to put my questions.
San Diego County Credit Union is probably the best one down there by a solid margin though you'd have to look up their credit extensions as someone else suggested, but I haven't really done anything with them in the past 12 years so it's possible it might've changed but such things don't turn over quickly.

A bunch of CU's now take nationwide applications for a small donation to a charity (usually $20-25); if I wanted broad access to a solid product lineup I'd probably go Penfed if you didn't need the ability to walk into a branch. Some other lenders do things better (like DCU for home equity loans or HELOCs, I'm sort of in shock at those products, still after having found that 2 weeks ago) but they don't have interesting credit cards TBH where Penfed does plus does well on a bunch of other things like auto loans.

THANKS...I was just checking out credit union forums and San Diego County Credit Union was mentioned favorably. Shame I am not connect to the Navy here.

There is a Sdccu down the street so it should work out.

Re: High achiever question

NRB525 — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:38:19 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
What Thread could I use to ask for good credit unions in San Diego County?
I always struggle with where to put my questions.

You could also look into Golden1 since you are in CA. Their standard rewards credit card is 3% cash back on gas, groceries, and restaurants, 1% everywhere else, and only 1% FTF. That level of rewards percentage is very difficult to beat with any sort of CC, whether from a bank or CU. (the specification of "Restaurants" is an important difference from "Dining". My understanding is Golden1 does not code 3% at Fast Food restaurants, only sit-down restaurants)

While PenFed does have rewards cards, one has to watch what those "points" are worth, and the redemption of those is about 80% of a penny per point.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:24:18 GMT

Thanks NRB,

I will get on it.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:57:41 GMT

It's great you are getting all kinds of feedback about credit unions and credit cards and so on.

But while that is really helping you out, I thought I would respond to what your primary concern appeared to be. Which was something like this: How can I have a high score anytime I want, without either having a huge total credit limit or keeping my reporting balances ultralow every month?

(In other words, you want to be able to get the benefits of a high score but also want to be able to use your cards naturally.)

The answer is easy. Do exactly that. Use your cards naturally. Keep each one pretty far from being maxxed out (< 70%) and your total utilization under 40%.

Then, in the rare situations where you actually NEED a high score for some reason, pay all the cards to $0 except one, whiich you should have reporting a smallish balance.

There is no FICO scoring benefit from having a low utilization every month -- just in the month before you need to apply for something important (car, house, very hard-to-get card, etc.). There is also no FICO scoring benefit from having a high credit limit in itself -- all that matters is the utilization. And a student with a $300 total credit limit (for example) can have a 5% utilization any time he wants, just by paying his cards(s) down before an important app.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 17:17:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
It's great you are getting all kinds of feedback about credit unions and credit cards and so on.

But while that is really helping you out, I thought I would respond to what your primary concern appeared to be. Which was something like this: How can I have a high score anytime I want, without either having a huge total credit limit or keeping my reporting balances ultralow every month?

(In other words, you want to be able to get the benefits of a high score but also want to be able to use your cards naturally.)

The answer is easy. Do exactly that. Use your cards naturally. Keep each one pretty far from being maxxed out (< 70%) and your total utilization under 40%.

Then, in the rare situations where you actually NEED a high score for some reason, pay all the cards to $0 except one, whiich you should have reporting a smallish balance.

There is no FICO scoring benefit from having a low utilization every month -- just in the month before you need to apply for something important (car, house, very hard-to-get card, etc.). There is also no FICO scoring benefit from having a high credit limit in itself -- all that matters is the utilization. And a student with a $300 total credit limit (for example) can have a 5% utilization any time he wants, just by paying his cards(s) down before an important app.

Thanks again, creditguy! You are a wealth of knowledge, especially when you have good news!

So below 40% total and no card over 70% ?

I can do that....

I had only 5000 cl and now have 12000. AND A million inqs. CITI AND SLATE ACCEPTED.2500 cl together

But decline city for several others.

I can sit on these cards and wait for their cli as the come.

Thanks again. I love your insight

Re: High achiever question

Thomas_Thumb — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 17:51:23 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I just spent some time reading the high achiever (760 plus crowd ) thread. Very interesting and motivating. A ton of the utilization theory . This sounds good but seems tough to apply. Hard work is rewarded..of course. I would like to know how much utilization one can have and still have 750 plus credit.
My problem would be very normal, I imagine. I want to use the card and pay it back as I please.
Also, to leave 1% of total available is .. I don't even want to do the math. BUT I WILL NEED AN ASSET LOAD OF CREDIT !!
Is there a happy median of revolving balance that I can hope to have?
If my AC is 10,000 and If Ieave 2,000 once in awhile, what might I expect ?
I am concerned about having to apply for 100,000 at least.
My scores are just above 700 and 750 would be nice.
I have about 12,000 AV . .2000 balance
Never missed a payment.
Low income.
my low income ( 32,0004/yr) might lead to denials which turn into inqs. (Vicious circle, I know)
Ideas?...

I gather longer term you want the ability to report balances in the $2000 range while maintaining "optimal" utilization from a scoring perspective. As mentioned up thread, the key components are:

1) Keep aggregate utilization (all cards combined) under 9%

2) Don't let a card that reportts a balance exceed 30% of the credit limit on that card.

3) Report a balance on one card only for best results. (if you let more than one card report from time to time, it's really not a big deal. Just realize score may drop temporarily but it will bounce back when # cards reporting drops back down. No lingering effects)

Only the 1st 2 factors are needed to determine what aggregate credit limit you "require" for revolving CC accounts. A total credit limit of $30,000 is sufficient to meet criteria #1 and #2. You do not need anything close to $100,000 in total CL. Your $10k card has a high enough CL to stay under 30% on a card while allowing $2000 to report.

I would recommend increasing CLs on existing cards over time to get to $30k but, adding one more card to the mix won't hurt, particularly if the card has potential for a relatively high CL.

1a) $2000 balance/$30,000 AG CL = 6.67% (meets under 9% criteria)

A aggregate credit limit of around 1x annual income usually provides sufficient buffer for personal spend while keeping AG UT under 9%. Given a $32k income, a $30k aggregate CL might be a good initial target.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 17:34:25 GMT

Yup. As long as you keep your util under reasonable control, then there's no problem with using your cards however you like.

Of course, you'll need to not freak out if you see you scores drop when your utilization goes up to 35% or a particular card goes up to 65%. It's just FICO temporarily dinging your score because the util has gone up. You can get all those points back whenever you need them. Just lower all cards to zero except one (and make that report something like $20 or so, whatever) -- but only when you really want to get every extra point you can.

In one of your early posts you said you personally felt very happy with four cards. That's a good sign -- your personal comfort level. So just stay wih four cards, especially since attempting to move beyond four is resulting in a lot of inquiries and refusals, which in turn is lowering your score more.

My advice is to stay with four cards for a year and allow that ton of inquiries to go away (they stop having FICO impact after 12 months). Ask for soft-pull-only credit line increases every six months if you like. After a year your AAoA will be higher and your inquiries will be gone (and your loan balance will be lower) -- and at that point you can implement the All Cards At Zero Except One plan. Your score will go up, at which point you can apply for a fifth card you really like. Etc.

Thanks for the kind word, btw.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 18:00:06 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Yup. As long as you keep your util under reasonable control, then there's no problem with using your cards however you like.

Of course, you'll need to not freak out if you see you scores drop when your utilization goes up to 35% or a particular card goes up to 65%. It's just FICO temporarily dinging your score because the util has gone up. You can get all those points back whenever you need them. Just lower all cards to zero except one (and make that report something like $20 or so, whatever) -- but only when you really want to get every extra point you can.

In one of your early posts you said you personally felt very happy with four cards. That's a good sign -- your personal comfort level. So just stay wih four cards, especially since attempting to move beyond four is resulting in a lot of inquiries and refusals, which in turn is lowering your score more.

My advice is to stay with four cards for a year and allow that ton of inquiries to go away (they stop having FICO impact after 12 months). Ask for soft-pull-only credit line increases every six months if you like. After a year your AAoA will be higher and your inquiries will be gone (and your loan balance will be lower) -- and at that point you can implement the All Cards At Zero Except One plan. Your score will go up, at which point you can apply for a fifth card you really like. Etc.

Thanks for the kind word, btw.

My pleasure. I have read many of you posts as I research the archives here. Always informative and worthwhile.

I took a lot of dings to get the Citi DC. Didn't know which card to apply for and got many rejections. But now I am good.

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 19:33:29 GMT

Thanks for the advice. Sadly , Golden is big in the north and not here in San Diego. San Diego County CU has a good reputation (maybe not the great card you mentioned,though). At least you pushed me in the right direction!

Re: High achiever question

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 19:40:07 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I just spent some time reading the high achiever (760 plus crowd ) thread. Very interesting and motivating. A ton of the utilization theory . This sounds good but seems tough to apply. Hard work is rewarded..of course. I would like to know how much utilization one can have and still have 750 plus credit.
My problem would be very normal, I imagine. I want to use the card and pay it back as I please.
Also, to leave 1% of total available is .. I don't even want to do the math. BUT I WILL NEED AN ASSET LOAD OF CREDIT !!
Is there a happy median of revolving balance that I can hope to have?
If my AC is 10,000 and If Ieave 2,000 once in awhile, what might I expect ?
I am concerned about having to apply for 100,000 at least.
My scores are just above 700 and 750 would be nice.
I have about 12,000 AV . .2000 balance
Never missed a payment.
Low income.
my low income ( 32,0004/yr) might lead to denials which turn into inqs. (Vicious circle, I know)
Ideas?...

I gather longer term you want the ability to report balances in the $2000 range while maintaining "optimal" utilization from a scoring perspective. As mentioned up thread, the key components are:
1) Keep aggregate utilization (all cards combined) under 9%
2) Don't let a card that reportts a balance exceed 30% of the credit limit on that card.
3) Report a balance on one card only for best results. (if you let more than one card report from time to time, it's really not a big deal. Just realize score may drop temporarily but it will bounce back when # cards reporting drops back down. No lingering effects)

Only the 1st 2 factors are needed to determine what aggregate credit limit you "require" for revolving CC accounts. A total credit limit of $30,000 is sufficient to meet criteria #1 and #2. You do not need anything close to $100,000 in total CL. Your $10k card has a high enough CL to stay under 30% on a card while allowing $2000 to report.

I would recommend increasing CLs on existing cards over time to get to $30k but, adding one more card to the mix won't hurt, particularly if the card has potential for a relatively high CL.

1a) $2000 balance/$30,000 AG CL = 6.67% (meets under 9% criteria)

A aggregate credit limit of around 1x annual income usually provides sufficient buffer for personal spend while keeping AG UT under 9%. Given a $32k income, a $30k aggregate CL might be a good initial target.

Very sound advice. ( I read your thoughts on the high achiever thread, I think ). YOU ARE A TREASURE ..With a great creditime score!