topic Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

masscredit — Tue, 31 May 2016 00:38:25 GMT

I only have one account due for a CLI in a few days then nothing until the end of July so I'm going to do something that I haven't done since I've been tracking my scores. That is let all of my accounts report a balance. I currently have 10 cards. Total available is $107,900. I estimate the maximum that will report between all of them is about $6K. The highest on one card will be about $4400. ($10K limit). The other balances will range from about $20 - $850. I can get updates as my EQ08 and TU08 scores change. The EX score only updates once each month so I won't include that.

May 20 2016

Cap1 - $2194.25 / $10K

Walmart - $68.25 / $10K

Lowes - $830.17 / $17K

EQ08 - 722

TU08 - 729

The above scores are the same as they were with just one card reporting a balance - ($769.38 / $10,500)

May 29, 2016
Cap1 - $2194.25 / $10K
Walmart - $68.25 / $10K
Lowes - $830.17 / $17K

Added -

Merrick - $14.18 / $1600.

EQ08 - 722 - 719 (-3)

TU08 - 729 (No change)

The forth card reporting a small balance dropped my EQ08 score by 3 points. TU either isn't going to move or they haven't updated yet.

I'll update this thread as other accounts report.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

EW800 — Tue, 31 May 2016 01:49:46 GMT

Thank you! Looking forward to seeing what the results are!!

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

RonM21 — Tue, 31 May 2016 02:13:29 GMT

I'll be looking for your update to see what happens

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

Revelate — Tue, 31 May 2016 02:33:49 GMT

If you're trying to isolate this explicitly use smaller balances would be my recommendation.

I'm sorta going through something similar now with my own analysis.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

Anonymous — Tue, 31 May 2016 02:42:13 GMT

I am letting the chips fall where they may! I have driven myself crazy trying to figure it all out. I do what I need to on my cc's right now since my house is my main concern. Scores can do what they want. Didn't have a drop with the new stuff yet. But you know they always go back up and then some as everything ages. I have come to the conslusion that if you don't drive up your ut too much and your accts age, you'll be just fine.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

Anonymous — Tue, 31 May 2016 20:19:30 GMT

I agree with Revelate that using smaller balances would likely give you a better representation of the result you're attempting to achieve.

By letting all 10 report very small balances, the only variable really is the number of cards reporting. By letting one (or more) of them report higher balances, you add in the variable of individual utilization. Having that 1 card reporting 44% utilization for example will likely have some sort of impact, but you won't know how much unless you were to add that variable in the following month. I guess it depends on what you're after with this experiment.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

masscredit — Tue, 31 May 2016 20:19:28 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
If you're trying to isolate this explicitly use smaller balances would be my recommendation.

I'm sorta going through something similar now with my own analysis.

My Cap 1 card got some use this month so that balance is higher than usual. I let two other cards report balances then figured I'd let all of them.

I might try all cards under $100.00 sometime to see what that does.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

masscredit — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 02:02:28 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I agree with Revelate that using smaller balances would likely give you a better representation of the result you're attempting to achieve.

By letting all 10 report very small balances, the only variable really is the number of cards reporting. By letting one (or more) of them report higher balances, you add in the variable of individual utilization. Having that 1 card reporting 44% utilization for example will likely have some sort of impact, but you won't know how much unless you were to add that variable in the following month. I guess it depends on what you're after with this experiment.

I haven't had all of my cards reporting balances in about 10 years so I'm courious to see what happens. I'm usually only have one card reporting. Many (including myself) think that's what's required to maximize scores. I'm starting to see that I can let 2-3 cards report modest balances without losing any points.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

Revelate — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 02:54:46 GMT

@masscredit wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I agree with Revelate that using smaller balances would likely give you a better representation of the result you're attempting to achieve.

By letting all 10 report very small balances, the only variable really is the number of cards reporting. By letting one (or more) of them report higher balances, you add in the variable of individual utilization. Having that 1 card reporting 44% utilization for example will likely have some sort of impact, but you won't know how much unless you were to add that variable in the following month. I guess it depends on what you're after with this experiment.
I haven't had all of my cards reporting balances in about 10 years so I'm courious to see what happens. I'm usually only have one card reporting. Many (including myself) think that's what's required to maximize scores. I'm starting to see that I can let 2-3 cards report modest balances without losing any points.

EQ's first breakpoint (FICO 8) is 33%, so yes you can have 3/10 reporting a balance and no problem. 3/9 though would be an issue; TU / EX 08 appear to be able to go up to 4/10 without a drop it appears in your case.

The problem is with non-trivial utilization on tradelines, you can't isolate the changes and as such it's not a clean datapoint. While I appreciate the testing that anyone does as it's helpful, it's not ideal.

The conventional wisdom that's been pontificated here over the years of single revolving tradeline reporting a balance is optimal for EVERY file regardless of how many credit cards or LOC's they have. As a result it's a good response as it's accurate and true for eveyone... and it's simple which makes it a great one. For those of us that have more familiarity with the algorithm we can play a little more loosely, but trying to explain breakpoints to them and have them do math, that's lame... .and as such we really shouldn't be suggesting that.

My opinion anyway.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

irunfromcredit — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 03:18:34 GMT

Thanks for posting this. I will be following this post.

i am doing something similar this month, I'm letting all my balances report. So far I think I will have 6 cards report, but individual uti is ~5%, with overall uti under 1%. I have been driving myself crazy watching my scores swing back and forth 15 points because I report one balance and then pay it off.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

Revelate — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 03:21:58 GMT

@irunfromcredit wrote:
Thanks for posting this. I will be following this post.

i am doing something similar this month, I'm letting all my balances report. So far I think I will have 6 cards report, but individual uti is ~5%, with overall uti under 1%. I have been driving myself crazy watching my scores swing back and forth 15 points because I report one balance and then pay it off.

How many cards total? Oh and what score range?

So far my EQ FICO 8 move 3 or 4 points for crossing thresholds still with my dirty file at least on the lower ranges, haven't ever gotten up towards max previously.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

irunfromcredit — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 03:24:05 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@irunfromcredit wrote:
Thanks for posting this. I will be following this post.

i am doing something similar this month, I'm letting all my balances report. So far I think I will have 6 cards report, but individual uti is ~5%, with overall uti under 1%. I have been driving myself crazy watching my scores swing back and forth 15 points because I report one balance and then pay it off.
How many cards total?

Too many...I have 21 cards.

**i was only letting one card report every month and then I would pay off right after it reports, but somehow paying it down to $0 would also report. So there would be a 2 week period where I am reporting $0 and that's when I would see the 15 point drop

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

masscredit — Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:26:35 GMT

June 10th Update -

Reporting May 20th -

Cap1 - $2194.25 / $10K
Walmart - $68.25 / $10K
Lowes - $830.17 / $17K

EQ08 - 722
TU08 - 729

The above scores are the same as they were with just one card reporting a balance - ($769.38 / $10,500)

Reporting May 29th -

Cap1 - $2194.25 / $10K
Walmart - $68.25 / $10K
Lowes - $830.17 / $17K

Added -
Merrick - $14.18 / $1600.

EQ08 - 722 - 719 (-3)
TU08 - 729 (No change)

June 10th Update -

Walmart - $68.25 / $10K
Lowes - $830.17 / $17K
Merrick - $14.18 / $1600.

Added/Updated -

Cap 1 - $4175.22 (up from $2194.25) / $10K

Cap 1 - $396.10 / $13K

Cap 1 - $77.57 / $15K

Cap 1 - $68.79 / $12K

EQ08 - 719
TU08 - 729

Credit Karma is showing the Cap 1 balances reporting on my TU and EQ reports. Just checked my real TU score. No change. It's still at 729 so it hasn't moved since I started this. No score watch alerts from myFICO so my EQ08 is still at 719. That has only lost 3 points since I started.

Total reported balances is $5630.28. That gives me a utilizatiion of 5.1% (rounded to 6% for scoring purposes). I have 3 more cards left to report (JCP, Barclay Apple and Barclay Rewards). Total balances will be just under $6K so utilization will still be rounded up to 6%. I'm kind of surprised my scores haven't moved much unless there is a slight delay between the time the accounts report and when the scores update.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

Thomas_Thumb — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 05:03:41 GMT

Are you monitoring your CK VantageScore 3.0 scores as well?

If not, please add to the list. Side by side data is of particular interest.

Best I can tell is VS 3.0 does not look at # cards reporting balances in scoring (if it does, more is better). VantageScore does look at aggregate CC utilization. My experience is 4% to 5% is optimum in real life and when I used the CK simulator. Score dropped a few points when UT was reduced to 2%.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

masscredit — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 14:52:00 GMT

I use CK to monitor balances that have reported but don't watch the scores to much. I'm looking at their website now. They only show the scores on their site by month and not by date.

April - 728

May - 720

June 11th - 713

April - 717
May - 711
June 11th - 707

So there has definately been more movement with the 3.0 scores than the 08. I'll watch these closer as the rest of my accounts post over the next couple of weeks and also as I pay the cards off.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

SouthJamaica — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 15:49:15 GMT

@masscredit wrote:
I use CK to monitor balances that have reported but don't watch the scores to much. I'm looking at their website now. They only show the scores on their site by month and not by date.

EQ

April - 728
May - 720
June 11th - 713

TU

April - 717
May - 711
June 11th - 707

So there has definately been more movement with the 3.0 scores than the 08. I'll watch these closer as the rest of my accounts post over the next couple of weeks and also as I pay the cards off.

CK updates your Vantage 3.0 scores every Friday.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 16:00:38 GMT

Thanks for doing this....

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

masscredit — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 16:45:57 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@masscredit wrote:
I use CK to monitor balances that have reported but don't watch the scores to much. I'm looking at their website now. They only show the scores on their site by month and not by date.

EQ

April - 728
May - 720
June 11th - 713

TU

April - 717
May - 711
June 11th - 707

So there has definately been more movement with the 3.0 scores than the 08. I'll watch these closer as the rest of my accounts post over the next couple of weeks and also as I pay the cards off.

CK updates your Vantage 3.0 scores every Friday.

I'm surprised their graph only shows monthly scores. I can't find anything that breaks it down weekly.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

Anonymous — Tue, 14 Jun 2016 04:00:35 GMT

I let one card report 92% util (paid in full after statement cut) and CK dropped 49 points.

I always pay such that only 1% reports when the statement cuts, but wanted to see what would happen to my score if a high balance reports.

Only 8% overall util aftewards, but it looks like the high util on one card really impacted the CK score.

Re: Going to let 10/10 cards report a balance

masscredit — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 04:44:59 GMT

June 21st Update -

Reporting May 20th -

Cap1 - $2194.25 / $10K
Walmart - $68.25 / $15K
Lowes - $830.17 / $17K

EQ08 - 722
TU08 - 729

The above scores are the same as they were with just one card reporting a balance - ($769.38 / $10,500)

Reporting May 29th -

Cap1 - $2194.25 / $10K
Walmart - $68.25 / $15K
Lowes - $830.17 / $17K

Added -
Merrick - $14.18 / $1600.

EQ08 - 722 - 719 (-3)
TU08 - 729 (No change)

June 10th Update -

Walmart - $68.25 / $15K
Lowes - $830.17 / $17K
Merrick - $14.18 / $1600.

Added/Updated -
Cap 1 - $4175.22 (up from $2194.25) / $10K
Cap 1 - $396.10 / $13K
Cap 1 - $77.57 / $15K
Cap 1 - $68.79 / $12K

EQ08 - 719
TU08 - 729

June 21th Update -

Walmart - $69.70 / $15K
Lowes - $830.17 / $17K
Merrick - $14.18 / $1600.
Cap 1 - $4175.22 (up from $2194.25) / $10K
Cap 1 - $396.10 / $13K
Cap 1 - $77.57 / $15K
Cap 1 - $68.79 / $12K

Added -

JCP - $19.34/$10K

EQ08 - 719
TU08 - 729

My EQ and TU 08 scores haven't changed with another card reporting a balance. CK VS 3.0 scores went down a little. EQ lost 2 points and TU lost 5. My lowes balance will update in the next few days. It will go from $830.17 to $59.46. Both Barclay cards will also be reporting a balance this week. The Rewards card will be at $323.01 and the Apple card will report $67.24. That will give me all 10 cards reporting.

btw- I updated my Walmart credit limit for the updates in this post. It used to be $10K but it went up to $15K just before I started this test. I listed it at the old limit a few times before.

Credit Karma VantageScore 3.0 Scores -

EQ

April - 728
May - 720
June 11th - 713

June 18th - 711

TU

April - 717
May - 711
June 11th - 707

June 18th - 702