topic Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Stryder — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 00:50:26 GMT

My wife didn't want to pay for MyFico, so we were using Vantage 3.0 sites and she was right around 700 on all three cb's. My scores are starting to do well, so I set her up with a MyFico 3B pull subscription and was shocked...her scores were EQ 610, TU 620, and EX617...?????? really???

Her other version Fico's weren't too bad 660 - 690...but it looked to me like Fico 8 was ignoring her 4 AU cards (under me). It said "could not recognize any valid revolving accounts"??? They were good before and everything I've read says Fico 8 recognizes AU's. She is on my BoA, QS, BCE & CSP.

I also read that the new Fico 8 does not recognize AU's that are on purchased accounts? Like for credit repair.... If that is what they think she has, how do I fix it? She is currently un-employeed, so I cant app her to get a new card right now. One poster had suggested correcting any personal info, to make sure what gets accredited goes to her.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...We want to do a mortgage next year, so I need to get her fixed.

Thanks!

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

mitchblue — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 02:36:39 GMT

As far as I know they do.. I suspect something else from Fico 8 was the reason for the lower score..

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 03:39:37 GMT

Actually I think it is common for FICO 8 to ignore AUs in its utilization calculations. Send Thomas Thumb a private message and ask him to comment on this thread. He's done a bunch of research on it.

There are a number of other veterans who know about it -- if they see this thread they may be able to tell you. I have never myself been an AU or had someone be an AU on my account.so I have never done the work to remember how this aspect of the model works.

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Revelate — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 08:47:11 GMT

There's an anti-AU abuse algorithm in FICO 8 which nobody really understands and we've never been able to discretely test.

Only way I explicity know to test if an AU is working or not is to let a small balance report on the AU, then zero out everything. If your score stays the same (and you likely saw a drop before this) then it doesn't count; however, if it drops only when you zero out the AU, it does count.

I've yet to see any rational or objective measure otherwise: whatever is presented in CK, MF, or others simply isn't the algorithm (and for the life of me I will never understand why other intelligent people think that it is somehow meaningful and refuse to test their assertions). Moral of the story: have AU's if they make sense, but get your own tradelines too.

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Stryder — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 11:58:47 GMT

@mitchblue wrote:
As far as I know they do.. I suspect something else from Fico 8 was the reason for the lower score..

She did have three old derogs, one has fallen completely off, the second off of EQ and EX, TU should drop pretty quick, and the third is still there. So it should be a better score from last month. But I dont think I've ever pulled an actual Fico report on her.it's been Credit Sesame which is Vantage 3.0

When I go into her accounts on a CCT Experian Fico 8 report, it says this about her revolving accounts.

No credit card activity

There is no recent activity on your credit cards.

Your credit report shows no open credit cards or it does not report recent information (such as balance or credit limit) about any of your credit cards. Your FICO® Score evaluates your mix of credit cards, installment loans, and mortgages. People who demonstrate responsible use of different types of credit are generally less risky to lenders.

She is a AU on 4 of my credit cards which shows up in the "Accounts category" as open and paid, except for one that has $10 on it. The TCL on the summary page is correct.

Also, she has an open Conns installment plan and a car note, but installment loans says there is only one? We are both on the car note, the Conns is all hers.

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Stryder — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 11:55:48 GMT

CreditGuy...TT is a great suggestion... i went back and looked at the personal data on all 3B reports and it looks good...correct spelling on her name and current address. Her DOB is only correct on 1 CB....

Revelate....There's an anti-AU abuse algorithm in FICO 8 which nobody really understands and we've never been able to discretely test.

I think that is what this is...something has triggered the algorithem you suggest.....I just don't know what I need to do to show she is a valid AU..Everything I've read says Fico 8 does recognize AU's, but screens for those that buy situations to boost there score

Should I call the CB's and ask them?

As always, thanks to both of you for your input!

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:08:11 GMT

The crucial thing I am discovering is that she and you do not know her actual reports well at all if at all. You have been relying solely on a score generation site (Credit Sesame) that gives a very abbreviated summary of one bureau's data and does so from the perspective of Vantage.

It sounds like you have just started her on Crediit Check Total, so you should be able to print out her full reports from all three bureaus. You should do this and start becoming really well aquainted with what they say and what they mean.

You guys may be on a budget, given that she is unemployed, so the MF and CCT subscriptions may be something you do not want to continue paying for month after month. If so there are completely free ways to regularly pull her credit reports. If you want details let us know.

The key info about your/her situation as I understand it is this:
    * She has no credit cards in her own name
    * She has derogs
    * She is unemployed
    * She needs to start building a score ASAP given that you both want to buy a house (one year from now)

Because of this I encourage you to head over to the rebuilding forum. If you explain those four points, they may be able to give you practical advice on how she can begin getting 1-2 credit cards in her own name. These might need to be secured cards at this point.

Of tremendous importance is learning how to pull and read her full credit reports at all three bureaus. Again, this can be done cost-free.

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Stryder — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:31:05 GMT

Thanks CGD, I have pulled the MyFico 3B on her and it says the same thing as CCT ( I didn't copy off of it because I would have to log out to log her in)

You are right in that I don't understand everything, but I have learned quite a bit. What I don't have, is a good history of her Fico scores...I don't know if her Fico 8's have always been like this, or just recently dropped or what. I just have to deal with what I have now....I will go to the rebuild forum ...

Do they detect and or reflect her being un-employeed into her scores?

Thanks again CGD

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 15:07:18 GMT

@Stryder wrote:

Do they detect and or reflect her being un-employeed into her scores?

Nope! FICO scores are not based in any way on employment status, annual income, or assets (e.g. whether a person has a million dollars in the bank or zero). A lender or credit card issuer, however, is totally free to ask for those kinds of information and most do.

FICO scores are also not based on a person's age, race, religion, etc.

Getting your wife 1-2 cards in her own name strikes me as a great idea -- that plus learning about how credit works and understanding your and her reports backwards and forwards. Good luck!

PS. I don't reject out of hand continuing to follow up on the possibility that FICO has somehow misidentified her as one of the cases that AU status was not intended for. Certainly as your wife she is certainly a very orthodox case of an AU. Making sure that you and she have exactly one address listed on each credit report and that the address for both of you reads exactly the same might help. But regardless, make getting her 1-2 cards of her own a high priority -- that's my opinion anyway.

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Stryder — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 15:44:46 GMT

Thanks CGD...I didn't think so, but I dont like to assume..

She is interviewing and hope to be employeed within the next 30 days... then i will surely be doing that. I will not add myself to those cards because of my AAoA.

I need to get her attached to my oldest card for her AAoA and number of accounts.

Thanks

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 17:27:06 GMT

My wife is an AU on 7 of my credit cards, when I pull her FICO 8 score from the free Discover Fico 8 website, her EX score and report ONLY lists those credit cards that she applied to under her name. This is with UTIL, total accounts and AAoA. However, her Vantage 3.0 score from CK is much higher (like 60+ points) and lists all of the AU accounts. So using a Vantage 3 model her AAoA is 7.6 years, using the FICO 8 model from EX, her AAoA is 1 year.

I was listed on one of my wife's cards, it showed up on CK and Vantage 3, I asked chase to remove me, my Vantage score went up a lot. It didn't appear to affect my FICO 8 score, though at the time I wasn't really watching it, I was just keeping track of is on a database and NOT pulling any sort of summery report.

What is interesting, although my wife's FICO 8 score was 670 Vs my 800, she gets a lot more credit offers that I do, and the last card she applied to was an AMEX BCP card with a $15K liimit, a higher limit to start with than I ever got. Her second card was a BOA card rewards card with only a $1.K CL. I am sure she was offered the BOA card because she had her own checking account at BOA.

So while I am sure at least for us, FICO 8 does not include AU accounts, it is quite possible that the AU accounts do have an effect on how credit card companies evaluate whether to accept,offer or deny credit.

BTW, the best way I have seen to get credit cards and thus a good credit file for someone without a credit history is to open a checking account in their name, use direct deposit, get a bonus of $200-$300 for signing up, and then the bank will offer their credit cards to the checking account holder. I iinclude direct deposit because that is the easiest way to get a no fee checking acoount. BUT after some time, all you need to do to keep the checking account no fee varies, either a min balance of $1600 for some banks or you have checking and credit cards with No min balance for other bansk. Like US Bank is NO min balance on checking as long as you have credit lines and a checking acount at the same bank.

The absolutely best way to start a good credit file is to get your wife signed up as a joint holder on an older tradeline, but I don't think that is easy, and posters say one of the companies that do that is Discover, though I have not asked for my wife to be a joint holder, so I don't know how hard that would be.

FWIW, the EX report on my mothers credit history list's my wife as a joint holder on my mother's Discover, though that is NOt correct information, she is accually an AU. Discover the company list my wife an an AU, no idea why EX lists her as joint. No idea what my wifes detailed credit report says as I have yet to get a copy, just summaries like you get from the free discover website.

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 15:07:50 GMT

I'm with dragon on this one, explicit wording leads me to believe Fico 8 doesn't count AU cards in the overall scoring. Not sure on other models. I know at one point in the past it was stressed by a lot of banks for couple to establish their own accounts, there was something in stories yeas ago about divorces and the spouse that didn't work not having their own credit "identity" this was after most banks stop doing just joint accounts and starting offer AU instead. I need to start bookmarking stuff lol

This is my TU (my EQ mirrors it, my EX doesn't it has Blispay on it making it a little higher) but I know for a fact with my AU accounts I'm on added in it would be $9k reporting.

I think the AU accounts really play a hand in individual lenders looking at your whole profile. I reconned once on Chase and they asked me about the balances on accounts that were not mines and cited the fact they were new accounts (less than 2 years old) as one of the reasons for the failed recon, even though I asked them to just look at my accounts marked invidual, but then 5/24 got me lol.

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 15:38:04 GMT

Based on what I can tell, AU accounts have FAR more impact on the older models (particularly the mortgage models). I was AU on some high Util accounts - dropped them and my mortgage scores caught a very nice shot in the arm while FICO 8 was flat.

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Stryder — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 16:48:27 GMT

I've been studying since I started this thread, and Fico 8 is not recognizing any of the benefits of her AU cards. They show up under her Accounts, Balances, etc...but no point benefits. You are right about the older scores...hers run from 670's to 690's. Sesame shows her TU as 696 Vantage 3.0, which matches her Fico Mortgage score.

Luckily, her card scores are all in the 680's, which should be good enough to get her a decent card...I am thinking a Chase Unlimited would be good since she is an AU on my CSP, Cap one would be a good one to..Would 2 be enough?

Thanks again for your advice!

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:39:10 GMT

For the chase app make sure there's no more than 5 cards you added her on as Au in the last 24 months. If so don't app there in most cases on the unlimited it would be a denial. But if you're under that app the chase first then the cap one but make sure you look at the prequals first definitely check the discover prequal she may be a shoe in there too

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:39:44 GMT

Oh and I think two is enough to get her started don't want to add too many too fast

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Stryder — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 18:43:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
For the chase app make sure there's no more than 5 cards you added her on as Au in the last 24 months. If so don't app there in most cases on the unlimited it would be a denial. But if you're under that app the chase first then the cap one but make sure you look at the prequals first definitely check the discover prequal she may be a shoe in there too

She has 4 AU's (all mine but the SYNC card), but the BoA is 4 yrs old, so I can add two to her profile no problem. I use Creditpull.com so I can see what they pull, she is in the mid 680's on all 3B for Fico Card scores....so she could be OK... I will find something. I would like to get a Discover for the diversity, but she doesn't like them because not many people use them. She loves her BCE, I guess I could try them instead of Cap one, That would be a backup. I will not add myself to what she gets because of my AAoA

Thanks for your help!

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 21:24:12 GMT

@Stryder wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
For the chase app make sure there's no more than 5 cards you added her on as Au in the last 24 months. If so don't app there in most cases on the unlimited it would be a denial. But if you're under that app the chase first then the cap one but make sure you look at the prequals first definitely check the discover prequal she may be a shoe in there too
She has 4 AU's (all mine but the SYNC card), but the BoA is 4 yrs old, so I can add two to her profile no problem. I use Creditpull.com so I can see what they pull, she is in the mid 680's on all 3B for Fico Card scores....so she could be OK... I will find something. I would like to get a Discover for the diversity, but she doesn't like them because not many people use them. She loves her BCE, I guess I could try them instead of Cap one, That would be a backup. I will not add myself to what she gets because of my AAoA

Thanks for your help!

When our friend stRealT gave you that advice about Chase, he was alluding to something called the Chase 5/24 rule.

http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2016/08/25/how-to-count-your-524-status/

Because your wife has had four cards added to her profile in the last 24 months, all four cards count with respect to Chase 5/24. I believe her reports show that she has had no other cards added to her profile in the last 25 months... correct? If so then her Chase 5/24 status is exactly 4 cards. And therefore, if you want to get her a Chase card of her own, that needs to be the FIRST card she applies for, while she is still < 5.

Once she has been approved for the Chase card and it is on its way in the mail, THEN she should apply for the second card (which will have to be a non-Chase card, since she will have a 5/24 status of 5 cards then.

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Stryder — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 21:38:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Stryder wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
For the chase app make sure there's no more than 5 cards you added her on as Au in the last 24 months. If so don't app there in most cases on the unlimited it would be a denial. But if you're under that app the chase first then the cap one but make sure you look at the prequals first definitely check the discover prequal she may be a shoe in there too
She has 4 AU's (all mine but the SYNC card), but the BoA is 4 yrs old, so I can add two to her profile no problem. I use Creditpull.com so I can see what they pull, she is in the mid 680's on all 3B for Fico Card scores....so she could be OK... I will find something. I would like to get a Discover for the diversity, but she doesn't like them because not many people use them. She loves her BCE, I guess I could try them instead of Cap one, That would be a backup. I will not add myself to what she gets because of my AAoA

Thanks for your help!
When our friend stRealT gave you that advice about Chase, he was alluding to something called the Chase 5/24 rule.

http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2016/08/25/how-to-count-your-524-status/

Because your wife has had four cards added to her profile in the last 24 months, all four cards count with respect to Chase 5/24. I believe her reports show that she has had no other cards added to her profile in the last 25 months... correct? If so then her Chase 5/24 status is exactly 4 cards. And therefore, if you want to get her a Chase card of her own, that needs to be the FIRST card she applies for, while she is still < 5.

Once she has been approved for the Chase card and it is on its way in the mail, THEN she should apply for the second card (which will have to be a non-Chase card, since she will have a 5/24 status of 5 cards then.

I understand the what the 5/24 rule is, I just thought since the BoA card is 4 yrs old, that it would reflect that way on her account too? Not when I added her. All of the cards shows up on her report... the balances too.... she just does not get any pt boost on Fico 8..... EQ 617 TU 610 EX 620, where all her other Ficos (and Vantage 3.0) all show mid to high 600's.

I was going to do the Chase first anyway, just because... and I will wait as you suggest....that makes sense..

Thanks CGiD! and stRealT

Re: Does Fico 8 recognize AU's?

Stryder — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 21:47:51 GMT

CGiD- btw, that link is awesome. I haven't messed with CK much, but that is very helpful...thanks. I will set my DW up tonight and see where shes at!