topic Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Anonymous — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 14:03:23 GMT

I normally pay very little attention to my VS 3.0 scores (CK) but upon my weekly Sunday morning login today, I noticed that both of my CK scores were +16. Immediately I got excited as I thought it could mean that one of my two late payments (2 different accounts) had been removed from my hard GW campaign. If that were the case, my FICO scores would clearly increase as well upon a fresh CCT pull.

When looking at those 2 accounts, unfortunately both of those late payments are still there. Too bad; no doubt my FICO scores will stay the same.

My question though, since I don't really know the VS 3.0 model very well, what other less obvious reasons are there for a score increase such as this? Looking at some of the basics, I didn't have any inquries fall off or age past a year, my AAoA from the VS 3.0 viewpoint is 2.2 years, so it didn't cross the threshold of "2" this update so that shouldn't have changed anything. My two late payments did not cross another whole number in terms of age in years (although one will in mid-January) so that can't be it. Utilization has been 1% for months at this point. I've played with letting 1, 2, 3 or all of my revolvers report a small balance and like my FICO scores my VS 3.0 scores never seemed to change because of this so I don't think the increase would have anything to do with utilization.

Anyway, not that it matters much, but does anyone have any ideas of something less obvious (or maybe obvious, just not to me) that would yield a VS 3.0 increase of +16?

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Thomas_Thumb — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 17:47:54 GMT

VS3 actually looks at 150 criteria per the below paste. The criteria get lumped together for simplicity in identifyinf primary scoring categories the way Fico does.

Note: Unlike Fico, VS3 does, to a degree, look at available credit in its scoring model.

Note: VS DOES look at inquieies for a full 2 years. I gained 3 points on EQ within days of my lone inquiry reaching 2 years and falling off. Something else is in play in your case but one would likely need to dig deep into your data to offer a reasonable guestimate on cause.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Marcos8 — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 18:09:26 GMT

Doesn't CK have a link under each score that says "what's changed?" Maybe that can provide more insight.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

JLK93 — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 23:18:18 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

my AAoA from the VS 3.0 viewpoint is 2.2 years,

I know very little about VS. What did you mean by the VS 3.0 viewpoint?

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 01:14:22 GMT

@JLK93 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

my AAoA from the VS 3.0 viewpoint is 2.2 years,

I know very little about VS. What did you mean by the VS 3.0 viewpoint?

I just mean that I know VS 3.0 only looks at open accounts, not all accounts (open and closed) in the last 10 years when determining AAoA. So, while my AAoA is 7 years in terms of what FICO looks at, from the viewpoint of VS 3.0 my AAoA is only 2 (2.2) years.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 01:17:14 GMT

Thomas,

One thing I hadn't considered as the aging of new accounts. I opened 4 new accounts in June (well Blispay only reports to EX, so 3 in terms of what CK sees) so perhaps it could do with the aging of "new" accounts and perhaps not considering them "new" any longer? It has only been 5 months though, actually 3-4 months of reporting depending on the account which seems like a rather short threshold. Also, I don't recall losing 16+ points when I opened these accounts under the VS 3.0 model. There's got to be something else that I'm not seeing.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

JLK93 — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 01:26:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@JLK93 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

my AAoA from the VS 3.0 viewpoint is 2.2 years,

I know very little about VS. What did you mean by the VS 3.0 viewpoint?
I just mean that I know VS 3.0 only looks at open accounts, not all accounts (open and closed) in the last 10 years when determining AAoA. So, while my AAoA is 7 years in terms of what FICO looks at, from the viewpoint of VS 3.0 my AAoA is only 2 (2.2) years.

I don't think that is correct. Credit Karma only looks at open accounts. VS is the score provided by CK, but it does not use AAoOA like CK does. VantageScore uses AAoA. Your VS AAoA should be the same as your FICO AAoA. There is no correlation between Credit Karma and VantageScore.

Of course, like I said, I know very little about VantageScore.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 01:23:46 GMT

@Marcos8 wrote:
Doesn't CK have a link under each score that says "what's changed?" Maybe that can provide more insight.

I don't see that link and spent about 5 minutes looking for something like this but haven't come across it.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

JLK93 — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 01:34:07 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thomas,

One thing I hadn't considered as the aging of new accounts. I opened 4 new accounts in June (well Blispay only reports to EX, so 3 in terms of what CK sees) so perhaps it could do with the aging of "new" accounts and perhaps not considering them "new" any longer? It has only been 5 months though, actually 3-4 months of reporting depending on the account which seems like a rather short threshold. Also, I don't recall losing 16+ points when I opened these accounts under the VS 3.0 model. There's got to be something else that I'm not seeing.

According to FICO scoring, accounts opened in June would be 6 months old on December 1st. I have no idea how VantageScore sees this aging.

For clean files, there is a rebucketing, and sometimes significant score increase, on FICO 04, when youngest account reaches 6 months. This probably doesn't apply to dirty files. If you have access to your FICO 04 scores, it would be interesting to see if there was any increase.

This could be what is going on with your VantageScores.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 01:27:30 GMT

@JLK93 wrote:

I don't think that is correct. Credit Karma only looks at open accounts. VS is the score provided by CK, but it does not use AAoOA like CK does. Your VS AAoA should be the same as your FICO AAoA. There is no correlation between Credit Karma and VantagScore.

Of course, like I said, I know very little about VantageScore.

I just searched and read a couple of articles that say that VS only includes open accounts in AAoA, so that leads me to believe it's not just a CK thing. I could be wrong, but this has always been my understanding and the articles I just Googled seem to support that. TT would probably be the person to ask, though!

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

JLK93 — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 01:29:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@JLK93 wrote:
I don't think that is correct. Credit Karma only looks at open accounts. VS is the score provided by CK, but it does not use AAoOA like CK does. Your VS AAoA should be the same as your FICO AAoA. There is no correlation between Credit Karma and VantagScore.

Of course, like I said, I know very little about VantageScore.
I just searched and read a couple of articles that say that VS only includes open accounts in AAoA, so that leads me to believe it's not just a CK thing. I could be wrong, but this has always been my understanding and the articles I just Googled seem to support that. TT would probably be the person to ask, though!

Yes, TT would know. I'm not definitely not the person to ask about VantageScore.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 03:09:46 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thomas,

One thing I hadn't considered as the aging of new accounts. I opened 4 new accounts in June (well Blispay only reports to EX, so 3 in terms of what CK sees) so perhaps it could do with the aging of "new" accounts and perhaps not considering them "new" any longer? It has only been 5 months though, actually 3-4 months of reporting depending on the account which seems like a rather short threshold. Also, I don't recall losing 16+ points when I opened these accounts under the VS 3.0 model. There's got to be something else that I'm not seeing.

Aging of new accounts is a possibility but, VS infographs show a 90 day timeframe for impact on score.

BTW _VantageScore 3.0 (and prior versions of VS) calculate AAoA - same as Fico, VS looks at open + closed accounts for average age. IV posted a profound link direct to VS which explicitly states how the model looks at average age. Please note CK is NOT VantageScore - it just reports VantageScore. The summaries shown on CK (including average age) are from a bygone era prior to CK switching to VS3. I can't recall what the prior model was - reported score had changed to VS3 on CK before I set up an account on CK.

VS has a long list of reason codes that you can look through to see if anything might click. I posted a link before to their reason codes but don't have time to find it now. Ignore the Y axis as it is meaningless in absolute terms

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

JLK93 — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 03:41:13 GMT

Are you sure your 90 day late hasn't reached 2 years?

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 03:47:00 GMT

Yes, although it's close. When it reaches 2 years I'd expect my FICO scores to increase and they have not budged a single point in 6-7 weeks now. I have another thread going trying to solicit info from those that have had a late payment cross the 2 year mark regarding how many points they got back. I'm thinking I should see at least a few, maybe as much as 5-7 but who knows. Until I see them come back under FICO scoring, I wouldn't think that the late payment aging would improve my VS 3.0 scores.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

JLK93 — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 03:50:19 GMT

Do you have FICO scores from December?

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Marcos8 — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 13:06:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Marcos8 wrote:
Doesn't CK have a link under each score that says "what's changed?" Maybe that can provide more insight.
I don't see that link and spent about 5 minutes looking for something like this but haven't come across it.

Both my CK iOS app as well as the CK website from my browser both show links or data under the TU and EQ sections that says What Changed? And then lists all the things since the last score change or pull

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 13:16:51 GMT

@JLK93 wrote:
Do you have FICO scores from December?

I have not pulled my 3B yet in Dec. The last 3B scores I pulled were on 11/24, then Discover gave me my TU 08 on 11/28. I will pull my 3B scores Tuesday (tomorrow) though. I don't expect to see a change with any of them. If I do though, I would chalk it up to the 90 day late hitting a threshold although IMO that would be happening a bit early.

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 13:20:31 GMT

@Marcos8 wrote:
Both my CK iOS app as well as the CK website from my browser both show links or data under the TU and EQ sections that says What Changed? And then lists all the things since the last score change or pull

Interesting. Where specifically are you seeing this? I'm by no means a CK expert. On the overview screen where it displays the TU and EQ scores, below them all it says is, "See details that can impact your score. Check out your Credit Factors." On the credit reports screen under TU and EQ I don't see a "what changed" either. I assume I'm looking in the wrong places here?

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Marcos8 — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 18:27:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Marcos8 wrote:
Both my CK iOS app as well as the CK website from my browser both show links or data under the TU and EQ sections that says What Changed? And then lists all the things since the last score change or pull
Interesting. Where specifically are you seeing this? I'm by no means a CK expert. On the overview screen where it displays the TU and EQ scores, below them all it says is, "See details that can impact your score. Check out your Credit Factors." On the credit reports screen under TU and EQ I don't see a "what changed" either. I assume I'm looking in the wrong places here?

Not sure why it's different. Just logged into CK again on my iPad and the first thing I see are both my TU and EQ scores. Under my scores I see a "what's changed?" Link Under that I see Updated on and a date

Re: Less obvious reason for a VS 3.0 +16?

Anonymous — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 23:26:22 GMT

This is what I see when logging in. Odd that you see "what's changed" - I don't recall ever seeing that there.