topic Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Asilomar — Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:43:36 GMT

The baddies on my CRs are 13 late payments from a closed auto loan paid off in 2013. Beginning this October they were due to begin falling off one by one, finishing up in February 2019.

Well, I just refreshed my EX report using Experian CreditWorks and all but the 2 most recent have disappeared -- a full year ahead of schedule. Now normally I would think it was a glitch with CreditWorks' metrics as I have seen them go haywire/be inaccurate before. BUT, I also got a 24 point score jump so it seems real. But how??? I haven't done a GW letter or anything like that. Is it possible that it is just a system glitch and the late payments will return?

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks a bunch.

Before:

After:

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:32:09 GMT

It could be a glitch or it could be that the late payments just came off early. This could have been a mistake on the part of the lender or they may have removed them early. Definitely don't poke the sleeping bear and see what happens. Once those final 2 come off, assuming you don't have any other negatives on your credit report your scores should increase significantly.

I don't know anything about CreditWorks, but I'd check some other report sources if possible like CK, WH, etc. and see if you're seeing the same thing from them. The real thing you need to do, though, is request a copy of your real hard copy credit report and look at that to make sure all of these negatives are gone. Monitoring software can be funny at times and provide some false positives.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Asilomar — Wed, 23 Aug 2017 21:57:24 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
It could be a glitch or it could be that the late payments just came off early. This could have been a mistake on the part of the lender or they may have removed them early. Definitely don't poke the sleeping bear and see what happens. Once those final 2 come off, assuming you don't have any other negatives on your credit report your scores should increase significantly.

I don't know anything about CreditWorks, but I'd check some other report sources if possible like CK, WH, etc. and see if you're seeing the same thing from them. The real thing you need to do, though, is request a copy of your real hard copy credit report and look at that to make sure all of these negatives are gone. Monitoring software can be funny at times and provide some false positives.

Does the lender even update an account once its been closed? I figured CapOne had nothing to do with this and it was some kind of Experian glitch. Besides, I just couldn't see CapOne removing an entire year of late payments in one fell swoop for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

How do you mean, poke the bear?

You think that the remaining two late payments, even given their age, are having a marked effect on my score? And no, I don't have any other baddies.

Oh yeah, I know how wonky credit monitoring software can be which is why I wrote this post -- wanted to see if anyone else had seen this kind of thing before.

Anyway, I took your good advice and went over to AnnualCreditReport for the "official paper report". I've already gotten my once-per-year but I've noticed that that system is also glitchy and will usually provide fresh reports more often than yearly. And... Bingo. TU wouldn't give me a new report but Experian and Equifax did. EX looks just like the credit monitoring software:

But EQ is all wonky and doesn't even have the table showing the correct years, so it's basically blank with some random 'on time' 3 years after the account closed. LOL.

Thanks for your input, BBS. I appreciate it.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 00:29:30 GMT

@WhiteCleats wrote:

Does the lender even update an account once its been closed? I figured CapOne had nothing to do with this and it was some kind of Experian glitch. Besides, I just couldn't see CapOne removing an entire year of late payments in one fell swoop for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

How do you mean, poke the bear?

You think that the remaining two late payments, even given their age, are having a marked effect on my score? And no, I don't have any other baddies.

Oh yeah, I know how wonky credit monitoring software can be which is why I wrote this post -- wanted to see if anyone else had seen this kind of thing before.

Anyway, I took your good advice and went over to AnnualCreditReport for the "official paper report". I've already gotten my once-per-year but I've noticed that that system is also glitchy and will usually provide fresh reports more often than yearly. And... Bingo. TU wouldn't give me a new report but Experian and Equifax did. EX looks just like the credit monitoring software:

I've had lenders update my accounts after they've been closed. It isn't common, but it happens. My don't poke the sleeping bear I simply mean since this was obviously a favorable change, don't do anything that could switch it back to the way it was. Basically, don't contact CO and ask them what's up or anything, as you'd stand a chance of them re-reporting the negative information.

In general, people seem to say that 30 day late payments don't have a significant impact after 2 years. Based on your scores though, I'd say they are still impacting your scores, as an aged file with no baddies (assuming low utilization) should be in the mid 700's no problem at all, even upper 700's.

Good job getting your real credit report. That once a year stuff is kind BS, IMO. All you need to do is write to any of the bureaus and suggest that something is incorrect on your credit report. It could be as simple as a single character in your name or address. For example, you could live at 49 MyFico Ave and your report says 49 MyFico Av and you could write them requesting that they correct that 1 character on your credit report and then they'll send you a hard copy of your report (for free). I've done this with all 3 bureaus and have never had a problem getting a free credit report any time I've wanted it (which isn't THAT often).

Do you have anything else on your file that could be holding back your scores? If not, I'd say without question it's those minor delinquencies.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Asilomar — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 01:12:12 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I've had lenders update my accounts after they've been closed. It isn't common, but it happens.

Oh, okay. Good to know.

My don't poke the sleeping bear I simply mean since this was obviously a favorable change, don't do anything that could switch it back to the way it was. Basically, don't contact CO and ask them what's up or anything, as you'd stand a chance of them re-reporting the negative information.

Oh no, I'm blonde but I ain't that blonde!

Good job getting your real credit report. That once a year stuff is kind BS, IMO. All you need to do is write to any of the bureaus and suggest that something is incorrect on your credit report. It could be as simple as a single character in your name or address. For example, you could live at 49 MyFico Ave and your report says 49 MyFico Av and you could write them requesting that they correct that 1 character on your credit report and then they'll send you a hard copy of your report (for free). I've done this with all 3 bureaus and have never had a problem getting a free credit report any time I've wanted it (which isn't THAT often).

I didn't know you could do that -- great tip! Because, as you know, there are times when a "real" report is valuable, even neccessary. And I've had several such situations over the last 2 or so years of Operation: Clean Up White Cleats' Credit.

In general, people seem to say that 30 day late payments don't have a significant impact after 2 years. Based on your scores though, I'd say they are still impacting your scores, as an aged file with no baddies (assuming low utilization) should be in the mid 700's no problem at all, even upper 700's.

Do you have anything else on your file that could be holding back your scores? If not, I'd say without question it's those minor delinquencies.

I'm assuming you rolled over my siggy and looked at my card details -- I guess you didn't notice how new everything was? My AAoA wasn't impressive to begin with but it took a pounding when I closed my oldest card and app'd for 3 brand new ones the same day. Then, last month, I jumped in on the SSL technique. So the AAoA of my personal accounts isn't even 6 months. My saving grace -- and frankly I have no idea how much it's really helping me -- is the Macy's card on which I'm an AU. Depending on which metric/website you're looking at it brings my AAoA to 2 years 4 months -- 5 years.

I do have 6 inquires on EX, 4 on EQ, and 2 on TU.

EQ and TU are reporting those 12/13 late auto loan payments.

My utilization is overall 7% with one card reporting at 32%.

So, considering the newness and thinness and quite a large number of late payments on that auto loan, I thought my score was kinda where I should be. Now that I've given you more details, what do you think?

P.S. I haven't gotten the SSL bump yet as the loan hasn't reported sub 9% yet (it's still at 16%) -- that will happen in September.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 02:06:58 GMT

Closing your oldest CC doesn't adversely impact AAoA, as the account will remain on your report for 10 years and continue to be factored into your AAoA for those 10 years even though it's closed.

There have been plenty of reports on here recently of people with 6-8 month AAoA possessing scores in the 740-760 range, so if your AAoA is 2 years or so that's definitely not the constraint to your scores being where they are. Your utiization and inquiries seem fine to me, so that brings me back to your payment history (delinquencies) being the factor at play that's adversely impacting your ability to be in the upper 700's.

Once your SSL reports, your scores should all land in the 710-720 range, give or take.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Asilomar — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 02:22:01 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Closing your oldest CC doesn't adversely impact AAoA, as the account will remain on your report for 10 years and continue to be factored into your AAoA for those 10 years even though it's closed.

There have been plenty of reports on here recently of people with 6-8 month AAoA possessing scores in the 740-760 range, so if your AAoA is 2 years or so that's definitely not the constraint to your scores being where they are. Your utiization and inquiries seem fine to me, so that brings me back to your payment history (delinquencies) being the factor at play that's adversely impacting your ability to be in the upper 700's.

Once your SSL reports, your scores should all land in the 710-720 range, give or take.

Well **bleep**. I was humbly accepting of my late 6's, early 7's scores becauase I figured that's what I get for having screwed up my credit file and being in rebuild mode. But now you've got me thinking... and wanting better scores!

Perhaps the newly bumped EX score makes for a good window into the future as it's now at 711 pre-SSL. To be honest, I was hoping to approach 780 as the dust begins to settle -- the 'new account' hit drifts away, the new accounts age, the inquiries fall off, and the late-payments disappear. By spring of 2019 I wanted a 800 score. You think that's possible?

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 03:40:24 GMT

If you have no negative items on your credit report, it's possible to hit 800 scores within 2 years. So yes, if you are negative item free you'll be over 800 no problem.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Asilomar — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:54:21 GMT

Great. Thanks for all your help, BBS.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

RobertEG — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:45:57 GMT

Exclusion of monthly delinquencies is not based on any determination by the creditor.

It is determined solely by the CRA based on the month/year of the reported delinquency.

The statutory requirment is that exclusion must occur no later than 7 years after the month/year of the delinquency. FCRA 605(a)(5).

While each monthly delinquency is required to be excluded based only on its indvidual date of occurence, nothing prevents a CRA from excluding a string of delinquencies once the first delinquency in that string becomes excluded. Many anecdotal posts over the years have shown such discretionary early exclusions of later delinquencies to be common. That may be the case.

One could contact the creditor to determine whether they reported deletion of delinquencies, or contact the CRA to determine whether removal was done by them as an early exclusion. Until confirmation, it is speculative as to whether a removal occured as a result of CRA exclusion or creditor reporting of an actual deletion.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

credit_endurance — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:17:59 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@WhiteCleats wrote:

Does the lender even update an account once its been closed? I figured CapOne had nothing to do with this and it was some kind of Experian glitch. Besides, I just couldn't see CapOne removing an entire year of late payments in one fell swoop for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

How do you mean, poke the bear?

You think that the remaining two late payments, even given their age, are having a marked effect on my score? And no, I don't have any other baddies.

Oh yeah, I know how wonky credit monitoring software can be which is why I wrote this post -- wanted to see if anyone else had seen this kind of thing before.

Anyway, I took your good advice and went over to AnnualCreditReport for the "official paper report". I've already gotten my once-per-year but I've noticed that that system is also glitchy and will usually provide fresh reports more often than yearly. And... Bingo. TU wouldn't give me a new report but Experian and Equifax did. EX looks just like the credit monitoring software:

I've had lenders update my accounts after they've been closed. It isn't common, but it happens. My don't poke the sleeping bear I simply mean since this was obviously a favorable change, don't do anything that could switch it back to the way it was. Basically, don't contact CO and ask them what's up or anything, as you'd stand a chance of them re-reporting the negative information.

In general, people seem to say that 30 day late payments don't have a significant impact after 2 years. Based on your scores though, I'd say they are still impacting your scores, as an aged file with no baddies (assuming low utilization) should be in the mid 700's no problem at all, even upper 700's.

Good job getting your real credit report. That once a year stuff is kind BS, IMO. All you need to do is write to any of the bureaus and suggest that something is incorrect on your credit report. It could be as simple as a single character in your name or address. For example, you could live at 49 MyFico Ave and your report says 49 MyFico Av and you could write them requesting that they correct that 1 character on your credit report and then they'll send you a hard copy of your report (for free). I've done this with all 3 bureaus and have never had a problem getting a free credit report any time I've wanted it (which isn't THAT often).

Do you have anything else on your file that could be holding back your scores? If not, I'd say without question it's those minor delinquencies.

I can make a prime example myself. I have 2 Navient student loans that where reporting 15 lates each on both TU & EQ starting from 2010 through 2013. I made countless disputes trying to first have the loan removed because they both where PIF as of April this year. Finally gave up dealing with the credit bureaus and contacted Navient directly. Had a representative look into my case and noticed that forbearance was offered and excepted from the years of 2010-2012 but somehow the paperwork didn't get through to the right department. But was not offered for the year of 2013. So she had the lates deleted from the years of 2010-2012. Problem that occurred with this is it not only did it leave my most recent lates showing now on my report, I also have to wait longer for the lates to drop off in 2020. Guess I did luck out with the fact that the removing of the older lates( that have less impact on scores) and now showing the most recent ones haven't impacted my scores at all. I guess my point of all this is sometimes we should let sleeping dogs lay. Instead of stirring things back up.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Asilomar — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 02:14:57 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:

Exclusion of monthly delinquencies is not based on any determination by the creditor.
It is determined solely by the CRA based on the month/year of the reported delinquency.
FCRA 605(a)(5).

That's what I figured but thank you for the clarification.

While each monthly delinquency is required to be excluded based only on its indvidual date of occurence, nothing prevents a CRA from excluding a string of delinquencies once the first delinquency in that string becomes excluded. Many anecdotal posts over the years have shown such discretionary early exclusions of later delinquencies to be common. That may be the case.

Very interesting. That's why I posted here -- to see if anyone had had that happen to them. No one who had chimed in but again, thanks for the information.

One could contact the creditor to determine whether they reported deletion of delinquencies, or contact the CRA to determine whether removal was done by them as an early exclusion. Until confirmation, it is speculative as to whether a removal occured as a result of CRA exclusion or creditor reporting of an actual deletion.

I'd be very worried about doing that lest either one re-reports it in a way that doesn't favor me. And in truth, EX removing that string doesn't really help me as both TU and EQ are still reporting those lates "accurately". So unless I can find a captive auto lender that wants to give me 0% whilst only checking Experian...

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Asilomar — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 03:43:10 GMT

@credit_endurance wrote:

I can make a prime example myself. I have 2 Navient student loans that where reporting 15 lates each on both TU & EQ starting from 2010 through 2013. I made countless disputes trying to first have the loan removed because they both where PIF as of April this year. Finally gave up dealing with the credit bureaus and contacted Navient directly. Had a representative look into my case and noticed that forbearance was offered and excepted from the years of 2010-2012 but somehow the paperwork didn't get through to the right department. But was not offered for the year of 2013. So she had the lates deleted from the years of 2010-2012. Problem that occurred with this is it not only did it leave my most recent lates showing now on my report, I also have to wait longer for the lates to drop off in 2020. Guess I did luck out with the fact that the removing of the older lates( that have less impact on scores) and now showing the most recent ones haven't impacted my scores at all. I guess my point of all this is sometimes we should let sleeping dogs lay. Instead of stirring things back up.

I'm confused. Your lates from 2013 were already reporting to your credit reports, yes? So when 2010-2012 lates were removed that only bettered your situation, correct? And your 2013's were always going to be removed in 2020, that didn't change. What am I missing?

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 04:09:41 GMT

I think it's what Robert said. When the first in the string drops, they all drop off if continuous. I have seen this behavior before. I am pretty sure they won't come back. Must feel great!

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Asilomar — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 04:15:08 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I think it's what Robert said. When the first in the string drops, they all drop off if continuous. I have seen this behavior before. I am pretty sure they won't come back. Must feel great!

You've seen it before -- did it happen to you?

It feels like a hollow victory because practically speaking, it doesn't really help me. Now if all three did it, I'd be jumping for joy.

The first one in the string is October and TU has already dropped it while EQ has dropped both Oct and Nov. Sadly, neither seems to be giving me the love that EX did.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 04:49:42 GMT

It did, yes. Back in 2008 when all was melting down, i went back to school, and stupidly took a couple loans. Student loans. Fast forward to 2010, i was in hospital trying to die and i thought the loans were in forbearance. Long story short, a string of LATES began. I tried to get them gone and to this day i cannot figure where my deferment went. But the behavior you are describing/showing is very much what i saw. And yes, not all of them acted the same. You have yet to win the war, but at least you are winning some battles. Hang in there, higher scores are coming!

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Asilomar — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 06:57:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
It did, yes. Back in 2008 when all was melting down, i went back to school, and stupidly took a couple loans. Student loans. Fast forward to 2010, i was in hospital trying to die and i thought the loans were in forbearance. Long story short, a string of LATES began. I tried to get them gone and to this day i cannot figure where my deferment went. But the behavior you are describing/showing is very much what i saw. And yes, not all of them acted the same. You have yet to win the war, but at least you are winning some battles. Hang in there, higher scores are coming!

I hope you're feeling better and no longer trying to die.

Thanks for chiming in, I was hoping someone else had this experience. Good to know they won't just magically reappear.

I won't have won the war until the final 2 lates go away. I'm thinking I may try a GW letter to CapOne Auto and see if I get lucky. That whole string disappearing early has motivated me!

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:29:19 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:

One could contact the creditor to determine whether they reported deletion of delinquencies, or contact the CRA to determine whether removal was done by them as an early exclusion. Until confirmation, it is speculative as to whether a removal occured as a result of CRA exclusion or creditor reporting of an actual deletion.

I would advise against this, as by my definition this constitutes poking the sleeping bear. While it probably wouldn't matter, IMO nothing good can come of this, only bad.

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 15:48:20 GMT

Yes, thank you, all better now, and finally my scores have fully recovered. I had no late pays except those, but the were very persistent, maniacally so. I have paid them down to 20 and 50 dollars each so they won't close, and they are reporting positively until at least 2020, so i made some lemonade finally.

And you just keep making your own lemons into something good. You'll get there. I believe, though i have no direct experience, that i have read of many successful goodwill letters where cap 1 is concerned, so best of luck!

Re: Very Odd Change to EX Report... Would Love Opinions

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Nov 2017 08:10:47 GMT

I really wish I could post this more anonymously than ever now, but here's my story...

I called in, on purpose to the wrong number, full well knowing I would get the wrong department. I then played the oh gee I'm such an idiot, but I've been on hold all day act. Be sure to remember their name and use it often. The guy agreed to transfer me to some internal number that he would not give me but assured me would be answered in the next 3-4 minutes. Lo and behold it was.

The woman on the other end was like a gift to me. I don't know what dept she was in, nor really what her title was but I explained to her my situation (I have this ongoing battle with inquiries not being categorized as auto loans and not being "protected" while loan shopping from the scoring models) so she agreed to take a look at my account.

She then started offering EEs to me. And removing inquiries. Left and right she kept saying things like "well, you probably don't want this on your report.. or this... "

At first I thought she was totally kidding. Until I got the report from Experian and went to CreditWorks to check. They were all gone. Well in advance of when I thought they should have been deleted. And I can't tell you the number of times I have been told that Experian simply *does not remove inquiries* as they are a matter of factual inquiry.

I'm kind of nervous that she was maybe huffing paint or taking too much Benadryl on her lunch hour and they will magically reappear.