topic Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 02:35:43 GMT

I've read some conflicting data points and/or opinions on this, so I felt it was thread-worthy. This question assumes ideal aggregate utilization is a constant, say 1%-5% (but up to 8.9% I'm sure is OK).

What data points do you all have on taking your AZEO card above the 8.9% threshold, but keeping it below the next 28.9% threshold? I've read many times that on a single individual card that no penalty is realized in crossing 8.9%, so long as the individual card stays below 28.9% utilization and aggregate utilization remains in the ideal range. Conversely, I've read that people have taken a slight ding.

I've only had my AZEO card at < 8.9% and then at > 28.9% and > 48.9% (where I've received a ding) but never in the 9%-28.9% range.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

thornback — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 02:51:00 GMT

I've had 3% aggregate with AZEO card at 14% and no FICO 8 score ding on any bureau; but hit with -4 on EX (mortgage) FICO 2. Don't know about other mortgage scores.

Profile: 3 CCs, 11 student loans, one derog.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 02:56:11 GMT

Two questions.

One, when you say AZEO card at 14%, do you mean going to 14% from a number less than 8.9% prior? I'm assuming this is the case, just want to clarify.

Two, you mention 1 derog. Is it a major or a minor, meaning do you possess a clean score card or a dirty score card?

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

thornback — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 02:58:10 GMT

Yes, going from 5% to 14% on that one card.

Major derog. 4 yr old paid chargeoff. Dirty.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

AppHappyTog — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 03:29:17 GMT

Not sure if this is beneficial, AZEO back when I had a reallllly dirty profile (not sure what difference it makes?)- 29% utilization, And dropping to 8% the following month gave me a 27-30 point gain across the board.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 03:41:16 GMT

I am currently doing my annual experimenting with individual utilization on fico 8 since I rarely go over 8.9% individual or 5% overall. Having 0% interest $0 fee balance transfers available each January on my lowest limit card makes for cheap experimentation.

Going from AZEO 0.18% individual/0.018% overall to AZEO 25.8% individual/2.08% overall...

TransUnion stayed the same at 801 (however AZE2 scored like AZE3 usually does for me)

Equifax dropped 2 points from 787 to 785

Experian dropped 5 points from 790 to 785

The next month I lowered the individual utilization to 18.9% and the hit was gone on EQ.

I am still trying to figure out where the 5 point hit on EX goes away for me. It was still there at 18.9% and 14.9%. Last year I saw a 2 point hit at 13% and it was gone at 8.9%. I am planning to test 13.9% when that card reports this month unless anyone has other suggested thresholds to test between 14.9% and 13%.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 03:54:15 GMT

Interesting data points above, speedy, suggesting that on your profile a threshold exists somewhere between 8.9% and 28.9% on individual card utilization. It sounds like the potential impact, at least on your profile is minor at 2-5 points.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 04:27:43 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Interesting data points above, speedy, suggesting that on your profile a threshold exists somewhere between 8.9% and 28.9% on individual card utilization. It sounds like the potential impact, at least on your profile is minor at 2-5 points.

Correct, minor impact that is consistent across varying numbers of cards reporting a balance which has a somewhat larger but still minor impact (9-12 points at 4/5 cards reporting a balance) on EQ and TU for me.

I would like to retest AZE2 with 19-28.9% individual utilization to see if it repeats scoring like AZE3 on TU, but I will not purchase stuff just to test this.

Within my normal spending patterns it seems like the worst thing I can do to my fico 8 scores is allow all 0 balances to report which causes a 25-37 point drop for me.

Thanks for the interesting thread topics.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 04:41:53 GMT

The relationship between my fico 8 scores and individual utilization can be most cleanly seen on experian. The only times my EX score changes are when aging thresholds are crossed, all 0 revolving balances report, or I have utilization above 8.9%. I have other charts for EQ and TU fico 8 as well as EQ and TU Vantagescore 3, but those seem to be affected by number of cards reporting a balance and it is harder to quickly see how utilization affects the scores.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

sarge12 — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 05:49:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I've read some conflicting data points and/or opinions on this, so I felt it was thread-worthy. This question assumes ideal aggregate utilization is a constant, say 1%-5% (but up to 8.9% I'm sure is OK).

What data points do you all have on taking your AZEO card above the 8.9% threshold, but keeping it below the next 28.9% threshold? I've read many times that on a single individual card that no penalty is realized in crossing 8.9%, so long as the individual card stays below 28.9% utilization and aggregate utilization remains in the ideal range. Conversely, I've read that people have taken a slight ding.

I've only had my AZEO card at < 8.9% and then at > 28.9% and > 48.9% (where I've received a ding) but never in the 9%-28.9% range.

BBS...I have one card that all the debt on it and all the interest paid belongs to my sister...It is the only card that does not get PIF every month. It has a 10k cl, and a month ago it went over 50% utilization for the first time. It resulted in about a 10-15 point drop in my score. It came back up the next month after it dropped back below 50%. Hope this helps in your assessment, but since utilization is a point in time metric, I don't really spend much time worrying about it anymore. None of my scores have dropped below 800 in a long, long time. They also have not went over 825...not once!! I dropped credit check total, so I only get EX and TU scores from discover and Amex...I'll pull EQ about every 6 months.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 12:19:15 GMT

There may also be a small ding between a $3 balance reported and an 8% balance reported (on one card). It is VERY profile dependent.

AZEO matters less as your scorecard age grows more, it seems.

I get a ding from each step from $3 -> 8% -> 9% -> 28% on one card but it isn't very much.

Also, 28% on one card doesn't tell you what your aggregate utilization is at all, so that may have an effect on things.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 13:02:34 GMT

@Anonymous
I get a ding from each step from $3 -> 8% -> 9% -> 28% on one card but it isn't very much.

Also, 28% on one card doesn't tell you what your aggregate utilization is at all, so that may have an effect on things.

So, with aggregate utilization remaining ideal, you see a ding if your AZEO card crosses the 8.9% threshold? That's what I'm really after with this thread. If you do see a ding, can you quantify it? I've heard some people reference a ding for crossing that threshold on their AZEO card, but there are definitely others like TT for example that have said in the past that they receive no ding until crossing 28.9% on that one card. Again, aggregate utilization being a constant here (not a variable).

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 13:20:19 GMT

If we are talking about single card balance utilization moving from 8% to 9%, your aggregate utilization must be equal to or less than that number. But moving from 28% to 29% on a single card might mean an aggregate utilization that is above or below 8.9% so it is variable based on how many cards you have and your total CLs.

Also, store card balances affect AZEO differently than bankcard balances, for sure. If I leave $3 on only Amazon store card versus $3 on Discover, I get dinged on the Amazon balance but not on the Discover balance.

I went from 8.8% on Discover one month to 9.1% and got dinged for something like 4 points or so. Then I paid Discover down to 8.8% again and messaged them to update my reports (they did) and I got the 4 points back a few days later. So that was my threshold on that scorecard at that time.

Last month I had a card report 28% by accident due to my AU's big pending charge dropping off (so we couldn't pay it) and then posting on statement date. My score dropped maybe 6 or 8 points for that, but my aggregate utilization was only 4% or something, so my single high utilization had very little effect. The new statement cuts the 23rd and will be reporting $3 balance this month, so I should be able to see what effect it has this month because it reports at a time when no other cards updates.

I do know that friends with very high scorecards (AoOA is super old, like 20+ years) have no effect from utilization up to 28% -- they can report $3 or 8% or 10% or 28% and their scores don't seem to ding at all. My oldest account is either 6 years or 10 years depending on CRA and I definitely see a ding going from 8 to 9%.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Remedios — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 13:36:00 GMT

I don't know if this helps, AZEO card went from 10% to 12%, 3 point ding on Experian. Aggregate changed from 4% to 5%.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 13:45:02 GMT

@RemediosI don't know if this helps, AZEO card went from 10% to 12%, 3 point ding on Experian. Aggregate changed from 4% to 5%.

That's an odd point to experience a ding. I can't say I've heard of that before!

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Remedios — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 14:21:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@RemediosI don't know if this helps, AZEO card went from 10% to 12%, 3 point ding on Experian. Aggregate changed from 4% to 5%.
That's an odd point to experience a ding. I can't say I've heard of that before!

I thought so, too. Maybe it's more sensitive to balances on a really young files. I only have real time access to Experian data, so I cannot tell you if TU and EQ dropped also.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

HeavenOhio — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 14:33:41 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
I don't know if this helps, AZEO card went from 10% to 12%, 3 point ding on Experian. Aggregate changed from 4% to 5%.

I saw a ding last year at well under 8.9% aggregate utilization. The ding occurred at slightly above 5%. Before that, balances were slightly below. Bringing my balance down brought me back to exactly the same scores as before the ding.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 16:20:55 GMT

Anyone else test the 8.9% threshold specifically and receive (or not receive) a ding?

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 02:37:24 GMT

Going to just use my Experian to make it simpler. Current score is 646. Currently have overall utilization of exactly 10% on 6 accounts. 2 accounts are reporting a balance.

I did not receive a score increase when going under 28.9% util, but now that i'm at 10%, I decided to pay off my last major balance of $576. This will leave just one balance on all 6 accounts on my Amex Everyday (balance of $58). So AZEO. Any ideas on what type of score increase i'll see once the $0 balance reports? I have 3 paid collections from 4-5 years ago.

Re: AZEO at < 8.9% vs < 28.9%?

Anonymous — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 04:13:27 GMT

If you're at 10% utilization prior to the paydown and will be landing at low single-digit aggregate utilization, I'd venture to guess you'd gain somewhere around 20 points by crossing the 8.9% aggregate threshold... say 15-25 as a range. I'd probably lean toward the higher end of the range, as if your balance on the card you paid off was high (utilization percentage wise) you'd not only get a gain from the aggregate utilization drop, but also from taking your balance down significantly on the single trade line. What was the limit on the card with the $576 balance that you paid off? It looks like you have a bunch of cards with relatively low limits, so that payoff could have been a significant percentage.