topic Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Mon, 23 May 2016 20:06:27 GMT

FICO auto score 8 has a range of 250-900. Does anyone know how these score compare to a standard FICO 8 score? What auto score would be equivalent to a 720 FICO 8, say.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Thomas_Thumb — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:23:07 GMT

See table below (added Auto score data). This is all from Experian

EX Model	10%	20%	30%	40%	50%	60%	70%	80%	90%
Classic 08	532	589	640	683	716	744	773	797	818
Classic 04	554	606	651	687	718	751	780	799	816
Classic 98	551	599	645	684	721	756	783	802	819
Bankcard 08	528	586	634	678	714	747	783	812	837
Bankcard 04	556	605	647	685	722	761	797	823	844
Bankcard 98	552	594	638	681	723	761	793	820	841
Auto 98	542	591	638	679	713	748	777	799	818
Auto 04	546	602	652	692	726	757	792	816	834
Auto 08	534	595	642	682	714	742	772	801	831
NexGen II	521	584	636	681	726	773	818	853	883
VS 3.0	521	551	589	644	671	698	741	781	809
Nat Equiv	609	636	657	681	713	750	779	802	823

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Mon, 23 May 2016 22:38:21 GMT

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see Auto Score 8 mentioned in those charts.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Thomas_Thumb — Tue, 24 May 2016 00:41:02 GMT

Yes, I had overlooked Auto scores in my summary. I noticed that after I had posted. Take another look at the prior post - Auto scores added.The EX Classic Fico 08 and EX Auto Fico 08 scores match closely in the 10% to 80% range.

Please note Auto scoring models are listed in reverse order in the summary table. The data does line up with the model so no need for concern from that regard.

Also, pasted the data and a busy graph directly into the thread and deleted link to other post.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

RonM21 — Tue, 24 May 2016 01:01:31 GMT

Thanks for the tables. Had not seen these before.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Tue, 24 May 2016 01:51:43 GMT

Thanks for the info, T_T. I've searched all over for this without success. My auto score is indeed lagging considerably behind my FICO8. Hopefully the savings secured loan bumps it up some. Not much else I can do at this point except wait for my accounts to age, and it will take a good 18 months before I hit the 2 year AAoA, which I understand gives a noticeable score boost.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Thomas_Thumb — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:15:32 GMT

I'm rather curious in what factor in the Auto enhanced version could be judging your file so harshly.

The majority of posted data listing both scores and the score percentile tables from EX don't reflect lower Auto scores relative to Classic scores (above single digit percentiles).

Check out below links for additional detail

https://annualcreditreport.experian.com/assets/consumer-information/brochures/risk-based-pricing-rule/booklet-0714-fico-auto-score.pdf

https://www.experian.com/assets/consumer-information/brochures/risk-based-pricing-rule/booklet-0714-fico-classic-score.pdf

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Tue, 24 May 2016 13:39:56 GMT

I'm really not sure, but I'm assuming it's the lack of any installment data on my EX file. It's completely clean, but with a very young AAoA (6 m. and about to go down as I recently added two new trade lines).

I received the letter from them yesterday, and it listed only the number (690) and the range (350 to 850) as far as credit score information. My actual FICO8 from CCT is and was at the time of the pull 725. I talked to at least four different people trying to get the actual score model they used, and it was like trying to pull teeth, I explained as clearly as I could what information I was looking for, and was finally told it was FICO auto 8. I asked why it listed the score range as 350 to 850 and could not get an answer. The guy in the loan department seemed annoyed that I was asking these questions. I got the feeling this is a rare occurrence for them.

All in all, there was no real harm done in all this, and I learned some valuable information about FICO scoring for auto loans, and the general lack of competence of this CU. They really came across as uninformed and unprofessional. I'll keep my credit card open with them as a positive trade line, but I doubt I'll do any further business with them.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

grillandwinemaster — Tue, 24 May 2016 14:55:41 GMT

Sad to say, but it's been my experience that most finance guys are uninformed, and unaware of the specific credit model they pull. Unfortunately, this ignorance is not specific only to your credit union.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Revelate — Tue, 24 May 2016 15:15:29 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I'm really not sure, but I'm assuming it's the lack of any installment data on my EX file. It's completely clean, but with a very young AAoA (6 m. and about to go down as I recently added two new trade lines).

I received the letter from them yesterday, and it listed only the number (690) and the range (350 to 850) as far as credit score information. My actual FICO8 from CCT is and was at the time of the pull 725. I talked to at least four different people trying to get the actual score model they used, and it was like trying to pull teeth, I explained as clearly as I could what information I was looking for, and was finally told it was FICO auto 8. I asked why it listed the score range as 350 to 850 and could not get an answer. The guy in the loan department seemed annoyed that I was asking these questions. I got the feeling this is a rare occurrence for them.

All in all, there was no real harm done in all this, and I learned some valuable information about FICO scoring for auto loans, and the general lack of competence of this CU. They really came across as uninformed and unprofessional. I'll keep my credit card open with them as a positive trade line, but I doubt I'll do any further business with them.

Are you certain that the lower bound was 350? I don't know any FICO model which uses that as a lower bound. Does it say FICO anywhere on there? If it doesn't.... well a quack doesn't always imply a duck.

Sure auto enhanced scores, which do get pulled by the dealerships typically (it's be vanishingly unlikely that a CU would use an auto enhanced score anyway TBH) anecdotally appear to have a "first time buyer penalty" with regards to no installment lines; however, short of somone without installment lines doing a before and after pull of a 1B or a 3B with the share secured loan trick, it'd be hard to pin down and most people aren't interested in doing that. Guess we can go look but most of the people simply look at their FICO 8 scores and I suppose trust that Jamie / I / others did the assessments right on which models were affected, but all of us had prior installment loans so we never got the datapoint around auto enhanced industry options.

Anyway it's vanishingly unlikely more than call it 5 people at the CU know what they're pulling and it won't likely be anyone in the customer support arm; I worked at a near billion dollar lender for a bit, and the only reason I was able to find out what they used was because I sat next to the dude who was in charge of implementing the UW guidelines heh and he wasn't hard to shine on given my plethora of knowledge here.

Anyway there's valid reasons for that: the more the CSR's know about the UW guidelines and where the soft spots are, the easier it is to run scams. Internal fraud can be non-trivial. While it's hard to argue that with regards to FICO (either you clear the hurdle or you don't), it gets obfuscated under the same policy.

I wouldn't be too harsh on them over this, unless someone is a physicist or similar if I start badgering them with questions regarding Quantum Mechanics they'll probably get annoyed regardless of their potential nomination for sainthood. Ultimately that's your choice but if they have good products, use them for that.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Tue, 24 May 2016 16:06:16 GMT

Yes, they listed 350 as the lower boundry. I searched, and didn't find any model that would fit that. I know that they pulled something from EX, as I've gotten the alert from CCT, but other than that, I have no way to truly know if what they told me was true at all. The underwriter said the score wasn't the problem anyway, that the accounts were too new.

Even though my other lenders haven't had a problem with it, I'm OK with it if that's their reasoning.

Wasn't trying to badger the guy at all, just asked a few really simple and straightforward questions. This is a billion dollar CU and I expected to get this information without a problem. Now I know better.

I think this little situation has finally pushed me into the credit burnout zone. I've accomplished everthing I set out to do and more from when I started working on my credit last July. I'm headed for the coolness of the garden and going to let time do it's thing.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Thomas_Thumb — Wed, 25 May 2016 03:43:02 GMT

There are a couple non Fico, non VantageScore models that bottom out at 350.

They include CreditXpert and a consumer credit score called CE score from CE Analytics. CreditXpert is currently being used and marketed. Not sure about CE score

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Wed, 25 May 2016 10:26:26 GMT

I looked for any sites that offered free access to those scores, but came up empty. They are both marketed as "educational" scores. Hard to know what where the score they sent me actually came from, but I'm very sceptical it's a FICO8 auto. In looking through the credit pulls data base, there are many instances of people who claim to know their actual FICO8 score being quoted a much lower score from a CU. Perhaps it's a common practice in the industry.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Sat, 13 May 2017 06:26:34 GMT

I know this is an old thread, but I applied for a car loan through Kia Motor Finance. They showed me 9 different auto fico scores ranging from 630 to 720 from the three CRAs. They still gave me 2.99% financing for 72 months with no money down and a $8000 trade, paying off a $17,000 loan. My monthly payments are $591 for a $24,000 car with full 100k warranty coverage, gap and the old loan payoff. A lousy deal but I'm not exactly savvy when it comes to money. I like the car. It's a 2017 Kia Niro hybrid base model. At least I didn't gamble the money away (or maybe I did), though the first car I got was defective. I had to get a replacement. Same model and color. I gave it a long drive today. Ran fine. On Monday I start the long drive from Arizona to Oregon. Good thing the first new car broke down right away before I was far from the dealership. I've had 3 other Kias and never had a problem. Just another thing that went wrong for me in Arizona. Time to pack and go home to the rain.

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Thomas_Thumb — Sat, 13 May 2017 13:18:19 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I'm really not sure, but I'm assuming it's the lack of any installment data on my EX file. It's completely clean, but with a very young AAoA (6 m. and about to go down as I recently added two new trade lines).

I received the letter from them yesterday, and it listed only the number (690) and the range (350 to 850) as far as credit score information. My actual FICO8 from CCT is and was at the time of the pull 725. I talked to at least four different people trying to get the actual score model they used, and it was like trying to pull teeth, I explained as clearly as I could what information I was looking for, and was finally told it was FICO auto 8. I asked why it listed the score range as 350 to 850 and could not get an answer. The guy in the loan department seemed annoyed that I was asking these questions. I got the feeling this is a rare occurrence for them.

All in all, there was no real harm done in all this, and I learned some valuable information about FICO scoring for auto loans, and the general lack of competence of this CU. They really came across as uninformed and unprofessional. I'll keep my credit card open with them as a positive trade line, but I doubt I'll do any further business with them.

I think your score is CreditXpert. I do know that score pops up from time to time in the lending industry as a secondary option to Fico. I did find a way to obtain CreditXpert scores - not exactly free but, I was curious so I paid $1 for a 14 day PrivacyGuard trial membership which provides CreditXpert scores as part of their credit monitoring/protection service. [Note the 350 to 850 score range]

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Tue, 29 May 2018 09:25:04 GMT

Howdy all -

Since I'm the king of rambling - I'll try to keep this brief as I haven't a clue what these 2 pages are about.

1) Good god I'm confused about that speadsheet on Page 1 .... My TU and EQ "credit scores" (no matter where I pull from) are 778 - I have a medical bill and AoA issue with EXP, PLUS they only show 14 of my 17 accounts?!? One is a gas card and called them - and they said they don't report to EXP - so maybe the other 3 are the same? Either way, without that extra $10K-$15K as usable credit, now my UTIL is all messed up on EXP by 10% too (I'm at 3% on TU/EQ, but 13% on EXP!) - Not sure what my EXP score is? - but when I got my Amex card it said at the bottom it was 723 - but also applied for a CapOne QS card (and got my only denial in 3 yrs) which was like back in 2016 and in their 'rejection letter' it said my EXP CS was like 667 (going from memory) ... So I need to work on my EXP score obviously - just not sure what more I can do....

2) Seems the auto loan FICO8 (9 now?) is even more strigent - FWIW, MBUSA use TU and gave me the 1.99% / 2.99% CPO offer currently running this past weekend... So I'm searching for Auto Loans / Mfg's that only pull TU or EQ? ... Someone mentioned Wells Fargo - Bzzzzz - wrong - they def pull EXP, or at least in Colorado they do - Plus they're super slow with any balance updates - and haven't updated my records now since NOV 2017!!! (They say my account is fresh as of 5 days ago, yet my score is lagging around like 701 (w/BankCard 09, the newest one) - so I have to avoid that now too! till I get this medical bill removed - It's 5 yrs old and long ago written off and hear (read here) it won't affect my score if I pay it off anyways, right? And there's no guarantee after paying it'll get removed from my EXP report either, so may choose to just ride it out for 22 more months? TBD - Funny part is it's not on my TU or EQ reports but the place that filed it (the scummy CA) is literally 5 blocks from my house! - Tempted to go pay them a visit and 'negotiate' with a shot gun :-P (I'M JUST KIDDING!) Just chaps my arse, as they bought it for .10 cents on the dollar yet keep hiking it up monthly with fees etc...

3) Given my situation - Where does one go for an auto loan that pull only TU or EQ?

Just wanna get the best APR% deal and not step on a landmine should they pull an EXP report...

Cheers-

PS: OK - after rereading Page 1 and the rest of Page 2 here again... On that chart (which needs updating to reflect BKC09 now) I have 3 Q's still...

1) As the original poster (OP) asked "What IS a good Auto Loan Score"?? Good question that seems to not really be answered clearly ... Anyone? T_T with all the charts and 850 & 900 perfect scores (if that's you?) I'd think would know this answer best... Or, what qualifies as a "well qualified buyer" with these Mfg offers? "800+" ?? ... or will my 778 scores get me anywhere???

2) What does that "10%-90%" represent across the top of your Auto Score chart?? I also see it again on your PDF link that you kindly provided us for FICO8... and shows my 778 is like 77% - what does that mean?? I'm certain it's something simple and basic but at 3:18AM - Yawn - my brain has checked out....

3) In CO (or southwest/Rocky Mtn region) can anyone recommend a decent C.U. that doesn't require jumping thru a million hoops? I had a run in with Chase back in 1999 after a very ugly "D" and got run thru the wringer with them - and they have *very* long memories - Ironically I just got a 'discharged/write-off' notice from them 2 weeks ago in the post mail from 20 years ago? (1999-to-2018) okay, so 19 years ago... So dunno if that clears my record? - But I currently only bank with HSBC, Barclay's, Wells Fargo, ING, BB&T, USAA and have a trading account with eTrade that is also a bank account with debit card attached (if anyone needs a 'No Check' checking account, defo do the e-Trade thing! They just want your $$$ ) - I did once bank w/TCF and Bank Colorado (or Colorado Bank & Trust?) yeah, the latter... but the closest branch was 92 miles away and they have HORRID customer service as I was travelling Europe once and despite me advising them of my travels, would constantly lock my card up!! Grrrr! So I'd have to wait 9 hours, and phone at $2.99/min from my mobile... Fun bank they are.... Not. Anyway... Am also looking for a place to bank for our Small Business - but with Wells Fargo just changing to BankCard09 which dropped my score about 40 pts (Double Grrrr) and their slow updates, my search continues - I used to love Wells when I lived in SoCal - but now? I guess I need to switch banks - I've never had any issues except with Chase as just mentioned... but they're not a C.U. obviously (none are clearly) - Another idea is that I did work for D.E.C. (aka Compaq/HP) once - so thought about going back to DECUS? - but don't know who they pull from...?

3B) How do I add my scores and card images etc in my footer? I don't see any options within my account setup on here (low priority obvs!) Thanks!

So much for not rambling - sorry again!

TIA

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Tue, 29 May 2018 08:35:32 GMT

I think your score is CreditXpert. I do know that score pops up from time to time in the lending industry as a secondary option to Fico. I did find a way to obtain CreditXpert scores - not exactly free but, I was curious so I paid $1 for a 14 day PrivacyGuard trial membership which provides CreditXpert scores as part of their credit monitoring/protection service. [Note the 350 to 850 score range]

...

Just for grins (b/c I saw your results and also was curious about my latest EXP report) I went ahead and signed up for the "14 day CreditXpert trial" - WOWZERS! - *ALL* my scores using CreditXpert are 100 points LESS than CCT/Others that I've checked recently - with my EXP one around with CreditXpert at 673! Ouch!

This is what I don't understand about the 'credit game' ?? - With these scores, while even CreditXpert are kind enough to still label me as "Fair" - everyone else that pulls my 775+ scores bend over backwards for me??!! - This is just not right or fair - and very feel sorry for peeps that pay $19.99/mo. to get this useless info - unless they're truly doing business with a company that uses this service and score - My understanding is FICO 8 and BankCard 8 are the N. American standards (I have a Vantage 1000 score in England of 985 as they go from 400-1000 and never remove anything, ever!) - so am happy for that -

But I digress.

I'll click around and see what's causing the damage w/CreditXpert - My TU is over 710 - so that's actually just a 65 pt difference - but still, ya know? Just doesn't seem right

Sad BB

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

SouthJamaica — Tue, 29 May 2018 11:36:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for the info, T_T. I've searched all over for this without success. My auto score is indeed lagging considerably behind my FICO8. Hopefully the savings secured loan bumps it up some. Not much else I can do at this point except wait for my accounts to age, and it will take a good 18 months before I hit the 2 year AAoA, which I understand gives a noticeable score boost.

Comparing the negative reason codes in my most recent FICO 8 and FICO Auto 8 it appears that the Auto score is more sensitive to (a) the dollar amount of balances on the revolving accounts (b) the opening of new accounts and (c) the average age of accounts

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Tue, 29 May 2018 13:18:59 GMT

Do the auto score models like to see the presence of an open auto loan? Do they look at closed auto loans? When I recently closed an auto loan (still had 1 open non-auto loan on file) I saw a 4-5 point drop on my Classic FICO 8 scores. I don't know my auto scores, but I would venture to guess that the drop was greater to those from the closure of an auto loan. Thoughts?

Re: FICO Auto Score 8-what's a good score?

Anonymous — Tue, 29 May 2018 15:23:26 GMT

A long while back I suggested that this intuitively plausible common sense idea was likely to be the case. I.e. that the Auto flavors of FICO were likely to weigh Auto accounts more heavily than a Classic or Bankcard flavor. The exact details of that I was unsure but it just seemed obvious that the very nature of an auto flavor would involve this. A number of forum veterans came down on that idea like a ton of bricks, which baffled me at the time, but I didn't care that much so I let it go.

In the last year it seems like people are much more receptive to this idea, which is encouraging.

Assuming it to be true, I remain unclear about the details. For example, I wouldn't be certain that the auto loan has to be open. You need an open loan of some type to benefit from having a 1-9% installment utilization, but it's not clear to me that the auto loan needs to be open. Maybe the Auto flavor gives scoring benefit for closed auto loans that had a perfect payment history.

The practical risk in speculating about this is that it could induce a person to specific actions: e.g. Bob doesn't have an auto loan so he decides to get one to help improve his auto score. Buying a car is expensive! Nobody should ever make an expensive purchuse based on a hypothetical scoring benefit.