topic Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8?? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 01:35:12 GMT

I pulled my Transunion scores from WalletHub and MyFICO this morning. WH is updated daily and said I was a 616 and MyFICO has me at a 701.

Does anyone find this ridiculous like me?

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 01:56:38 GMT

There can easily be 85 point differences between two FICO models -- and in the example you gave, Vantage and FICO 8 are scoring models created by completely different companies. So I am not surprised at all by the difference in your Vantage and FICO 8.

An EQ FICO 8, for example could be 845 while the EQ mortgage score could be 710. (This could happen if you had a collection for $90 on your EQ report with no other derogs.)

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 02:11:00 GMT

Thanks for the reply. I just always thought the Vantage 3.0 was trying to be as close to the Fico 8 version with some slight variances. It’s hard to use it as a gauge if it’s going to be that far off.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 02:22:38 GMT

Some people do have a very similar FICO 8 and Vantage. Mine are pretty close for example.

When people talk about using Vantage as a gauge for FICO 8, it typically means they are paying a lot of money to a credit monitoring tool like myFICO and they want a free or very low cost alternative. We can suggest free or very low cost ways to get FICO 8 scores.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 02:33:23 GMT

Today was the first day I could actually get my FICO Scores for EQ and TU because of no credit history showing with those bureaus. Today my oldest store card turned 6 months old. So i haven’t tried any other sites for FICO Scores and had to rely on Vantage for those two scores. I use Experian’s app for their scores and monitoring. It’s $9.99.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 02:55:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

I use Experian’s app for their scores and monitoring. It’s $9.99.

I thought you said (in your first post) that you were getting your FICO scores through myFICO?

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 03:00:58 GMT

I bought two single one-time scores for TU and EQ today for the first time ever.($19.99 a piece) Before today I was monitoring EX on the experian app and TU and EQ on WalletHub and Credit Karma.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 04:33:04 GMT

My advice is definitely to ignore the VS 3.0 model and the scores provided to you using that model by an source.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 05:26:22 GMT

You can get your FICO 8 from Experian at no cost (along with the credit report).

TU FICO 8 scores can be obtained from a wide variety of credit cards.

The EQ FICO 8 BankCard Enhanced can be obtained from most Citi cards.

Also the $1 trial offer at Credit Check Total will get you all three reports and FICO 8 scores. Many people repeat the trial once per month.

Just an FYI....

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

sarge12 — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 05:34:18 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
You can get your FICO 8 from Experian at no cost (along with the credit report).

TU FICO 8 scores can be obtained from a wide variety of credit cards.

The EQ FICO 8 BankCard Enhanced can be obtained from most Citi cards.

Also the $1 trial offer at Credit Check Total will get you all three reports and FICO 8 scores. Many people repeat the trial once per month.

Just an FYI....

From creditscorecard.com supplied free to everyone by discover.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

moosemoney — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 13:48:29 GMT

My Vantage scores are WAYYYY off of my actual FICO

TU Vantage is 645 , TU FICO 8 is 615 - a 30 point difference

EQ Vantage is 592, EQ FICO 8 is 652 - a 60 point difference in the other direction

I don't even use the Vantage scores as a gauge because they are so wildly different than my FICO 8, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. My Vantage TU is 30 points higher, but EQ is 60 points lower?? Bullocks.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 13:48:46 GMT

Thanks for the info! These options will save me some money!

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 13:54:18 GMT

Wow those are some crazy differences! In my case, it looks like Vantage penalized about 40 points when I added a couple store cards like Kohl’s 3 months ago whereas Fico didn’t take any points from me at all.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Revelate — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 14:11:23 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Wow those are some crazy differences! In my case, it looks like Vantage penalized about 40 points when I added a couple store cards like Kohl’s 3 months ago whereas Fico didn’t take any points from me at all.

Yeah, as noted above there are some big differences between Vantage and FICO.

To my knowledge FICO eliminated the distinction between store and national bank cards back in the FICO 04 and all subsequent models (so we're talking nearly 15 years now).

Vantage may still count them, and I'm also pretty certain it handles new accounts differently whereas depending on your profile FICO might not even care (dirty bucket unless you cross an AAOA threshold no new account matters for example). Clean files and minor deliquency files age of youngest account is factor.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 14:14:55 GMT

I believe what you’re saying. I didn’t have and penalty for opening cards 3 months ago Fico-wise. I’ll just use CK for monitoring going forward.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 14:54:39 GMT

My personal advice is as follows (broken down by credit bureau). All tools are free, with the exception of the $1 trial at CCT.

EXPERIAN:

(1) Sign up for creditscore.com. That gets you both the full Experian report and the FICO 8 score.

(2) Then 14-15 days later, sign up for creditscorecard.com (at Discover) which gives you one more FICO 8.

Now you have two FICO 8s two weeks apart plus a full monthly report.

(3) This step is optional but you can also sign up for credit.com, which will give you a nice high-level summary of your report plus a Vantage 3.0 score. Their front-end summary page is far more accurate than most -- for example its reading of your AAoA correctly includes closed accounts.

===================

TRANSUNION and EQUIFAX

Use Karma for the reports, which are immensely valuable. Some caveats:

* Be constantly aware that its scores are Vantage, so in practice most people ignore them.

* The front end interface will give incorrect readings on your AAoA. If you think you might have late payments or similar derogs in the last 7 years, use other tools to find them, since the front end summary seems to drop any older than two years.

* Ignore any advice that any credit monitoring tool gives you. Karma in particular will imply that you will be helped by having at least 20 open accounts, which is BS.

These caveats aside, the reports themselves are so valuable, especially for looking for new accounts, looking for how balances on accounts may have recetly updated, getting the precise date that the CC issuer sent in the update, etc.

TRANSUNION -- getting FICO 8 Scores

Getting them via a wide range of credit cards is a nice choice. There's Barclays, Bank of America, Walmart, Discover, and several others.

Or you can use the $1 trial offer at Credit Check Total.

EQUIFAX -- getting FICO 8 Scores

Citi cards give you a free FICO 8 BankCard enhanced.

Contributor SouthJ knows of a credit union that gives you a free FICO 8 classic, just for having a savings account.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 15:32:18 GMT

@moosemoney wrote:
My Vantage scores are WAYYYY off of my actual FICO

TU Vantage is 645 , TU FICO 8 is 615 - a 30 point difference
EQ Vantage is 592, EQ FICO 8 is 652 - a 60 point difference in the other direction

I don't even use the Vantage scores as a gauge because they are so wildly different than my FICO 8, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. My Vantage TU is 30 points higher, but EQ is 60 points lower?? Bullocks.

Do you have AU cards at a high utilization level or with lates? Vantagescore 3.0 counts AU cards and Fico 8 may not be counting them. Negatives on AU cards may be hurting your VS 3 score. VS 3 also looks at dollar value (available credit), not just utilization. If you are a renter and have a late payment or a late phone/utility payment that might be looked at in VS 3 as well. Currently VantageScore puts a great deal of weight toward payment history and lates drop score substantially.

As others have mentioned, multiple new accounts are looked at more harshly in VS 3 relative to Fico 8 but, the impact of new accounts should taper off after 90 days (per VS info)

If you have AU cards being counted on Fico 8, my understanding is two CRA includes negative factors (lates) but, the other CRA does not. The "other sources of information" is for Fico 9 but, the 1st four points apply to Fico 8 as well.

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 15:06:21 GMT

That’s a lot of good information there! I’ll put all that to good use!

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

moosemoney — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 15:06:38 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@moosemoney wrote:
My Vantage scores are WAYYYY off of my actual FICO

TU Vantage is 645 , TU FICO 8 is 615 - a 30 point difference
EQ Vantage is 592, EQ FICO 8 is 652 - a 60 point difference in the other direction

I don't even use the Vantage scores as a gauge because they are so wildly different than my FICO 8, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. My Vantage TU is 30 points higher, but EQ is 60 points lower?? Bullocks.
Do you have AU cards at a high utilization level or with lates? Vantagescore 3.0 counts AU cards and Fico 8 may not be counting them. Negatives on AU cards may be hurting your VS 3 score. VS 3 also looks at dollar value ofbalances, not just utilization. If you are a renter and have a late payment or a late phone/utility payment that might be looked at in VS 3 as well. As others have mentioned, multiple new accounts are looked at more harshly in VS 3 relative to Fico 8 but, the impact of new accounts should taper off after 90 days (per VS info)

If you have AU cards being counted on Fico 8, my understanding is one CRA includes negative factors (lates) but, the other two CRAs do not.

No AUs at all and I've been a homeowner since 2007. The only thing I can think of is the dollar value vs utilization. My UTI is 3% overall, but dollar value is very low ($19 out of $700).

Re: 85 point difference between Vantage 3.0 vs Fico 8??

Thomas_Thumb — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 15:28:08 GMT

It looks like you have a thin file. VantageScore requires more accounts on file than Fico models for maximum score potential. That can be costing you quite a few VS 3 points. Also, given your score, I assume you have some lates in your file and/or other derogatory marks. If so, those are probably impacting VS 3 more than Fico 8. And yes, your low total revolving credit ($700) might be inhibiting VS 3 as well.