topic Re: Thin File -> Thick File in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 15:24:25 GMT

Hello!!

I have been reading the MyFico forum for a few years now, and have gained a ton of knowledge about how the FICO scoring model works. However, with a federal student loan ($606) and two CC (Discover 2.2k, US Bank Platinum 300$), I believe I have a thin file.

In two years I will graduate college and begin using my credit for a car loan and possibly even a mortgage, so I have some time to thicken my file up while getting rewards from some new cards. I was eyeing the AMEX Everyday card and Citi Double Cash, but I don't want to ruin my AAoA. Currently at 2 years 7 months average for my oldest account, most recent card is from Janurary '17.

Would I be safe to apply for these two cards? Or would my ruined account age drop my scores?

Discover FICO: 766

TU: 762

0 inquiries in the past 12 months, 2 in the past 24. 3% utilization, 12.5k income as a student.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 15:58:46 GMT

I think you're fine to app for those 2 cards.

In 2 years assuming you don't open any other accounts you'll be at a solid AoYA (2 years) and your AAoA and AoOA will be in a respectable place as well.

When you say your TU score is 762, I'm assuming you're getting that from your Discover account, and the "Discover FICO" is your EX score from creditscorecard provided by Discover?

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

arkane — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 16:02:56 GMT

Well if you do the math, opening a new card now will drop your AAoA to 1 year 11 months and reset your AoYA to 0 months, so you'll get a double ding there, in addition to the ding from a credit inquiry. But one month later your AAoA will have crossed back over past the 2 year threshold so you should recover some lost points.

If you open up two cards though, your AAoA will drop to 1 year 6 months, so it'll take longer for your score to recover. But since you don't have any major applications on the horizon for the next two years, I'd say go for it, although I'd rethink your particular combination since the Double Cash makes the Amex ED somewhat redundant (unless you're just chasing the sign up bonus).

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Gmood1 — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 16:04:29 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hello!!

I have been reading the MyFico forum for a few years now, and have gained a ton of knowledge about how the FICO scoring model works. However, with a federal student loan ($606) and two CC (Discover 2.2k, US Bank Platinum 300$), I believe I have a thin file.

In two years I will graduate college and begin using my credit for a car loan and possibly even a mortgage, so I have some time to thicken my file up while getting rewards from some new cards. I was eyeing the AMEX Everyday card and Citi Double Cash, but I don't want to ruin my AAoA. Currently at 2 years 7 months average for my oldest account, most recent card is from Janurary '17.

Would I be safe to apply for these two cards? Or would my ruined account age drop my scores?

Discover FICO: 766
TU: 762
0 inquiries in the past 12 months, 2 in the past 24. 3% utilization, 12.5k income as a student.

Your AAoA isn't static. It will bounce back and be stronger than what it is now.

There's only one way to build a thicker file.

Add them now, you'll be good to go two years from now. Amex is thin file friendly. Not sure about Citi though.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Thomas_Thumb — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 16:05:46 GMT

Yes, your file is thin. General rule is four or more accounts to be considered not thin.

Sure your score is likely to drop temporarily if you get a couple new CCs. So what. Within 12 months your score will be higher (assuming no delinquencies). If those are cards you like and plan to keep for a long time it's better to get them sooner rather than later - unless there is risk of denial due to lack of income. If income is a concern wait and get cards after college.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 16:34:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
When you say your TU score is 762, I'm assuming you're getting that from your Discover account, and the "Discover FICO" is your EX score from creditscorecard provided by Discover?

@Anonymous The TU score comes from US Bank's system, and the Discover FICO says it is "based on transunion data". I'm not entirely sure, however.

@arkane wrote:
If you open up two cards though, your AAoA will drop to 1 year 6 months, so it'll take longer for your score to recover. But since you don't have any major applications on the horizon for the next two years, I'd say go for it, although I'd rethink your particular combination since the Double Cash makes the Amex ED somewhat redundant (unless you're just chasing the sign up bonus).

@ @arkane Do you have any suggestions for cards? I currently have a Visa and Discover so I figured I should add a Mastercard, and the AMEX has a decent bonus (15k points after 1k spend), but I especially like the 2% on groceries and ticketmaster early access. My Disco does 2% on gas and restaurants so if I can replace that, I would. I don't travel much, however.

It sounds like applying for two cards (5 total accounts) would be a safe bet. Ultimately, I want to build a relationship with whomever I will get a car loan or mortgage through. My PFI is a local credit union, but their credit card offers nothing in terms of rewards. Maybe its worth it to get their card just to strengthen my relationship with them?

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Jul 2018 17:53:49 GMT

Just keep in mind that any 2% CB on everything card like the Citi DC essentially makes the "2-1" on any "3-2-1" card useless, rendering it a "3" card for just that one category. If that category is something you spend a significant amount of money on, the additional 1% (over using your 2% everything card) may be "worth it" to you.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 17:17:59 GMT

Update: AMEX denied me because I had some collections (that are not mine) on my Experian report. I have those removed and my Experian score is now a 721. AMEX wouldn't approve me even after the recon call, so I think I'll wait 30 days.

I really like the AMEX for the 3% groceries, as its the last category I need to cover (groceries, gas, restaurants). However, I have 1k in purchases coming up and those signup bonuses look good (Wells Fargo Cash Wise 1.5%, Citi Double Cash 2%, Capital One Quicksilver 1.5%) for my general spending card.

I'm worried if I get a new card now, AMEX won't approve me anytime soon. What do you all recommend?

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Thomas_Thumb — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 02:28:03 GMT

Do some recon and apply for a card you can use long term but that has higher likelihood of approval. The Wells Fargo Cash Wise no annual fee card might be a good option. Can't complain about $200 cash back on a $1000 spend. The card should have decent CLI potential.

Get the collections removed before applying for AMEX again. I doubt a single new card will hurt your chances with AMEX - it's the collections that hurt.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 01:42:37 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb

Get the collections removed before applying for AMEX again.

It sounds like from Post 8 that the collections were removed, so perhaps his approval odds have now increased significantly.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Thomas_Thumb — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 02:10:18 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Thomas_Thumb

Get the collections removed before applying for AMEX again.
It sounds like from Post 8 that the collections were removed, so perhaps his approval odds have now increased significantly.

Usually the removal process takes some time.

My take was the collections were likely in dispute and not counting toward score but, perhaps not yet removed from the file.

Also, AMEX may be more difficult than other cards as a student if income is limited.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 02:17:30 GMT

Hi Windrock. Was it a surprise to you when you realized that you had collections on your report?

Just curious.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 03:15:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Hi Windrock. Was it a surprise to you when you realized that you had collections on your report?

Just curious.

Oh yes. My dad and I have the same name, except he has no middle name and I do. This is often a cause of confusion. He is going through debt consolidation, so the unpaid doctor bills got matched to my report. Oddly enough, only Experian had them, whereas Transunion and Equifax were fine. Both collection agencies removed my debt the same day I called, and my report is now updated with my middle name and no collections. I'm at a 721 Ex, 735 TU FICO now.

With my student income, I'm essentially looking for the AMEX card for groceries and another general spend card cashback card that I can get a decent CL on.

Citi Doublecash seems popular at 2%, $100 back on $500 and free Equifax FICO scores.
Wells Fargo earns cashback at 1.5% and a $200 back on 1k, seems like they'd take me with their rebranding,.
Captial One Quicksilver earns at 1.5% and $150 back on $500. Pulls all three bureaus but I heard they are good about CLIs.
US Bank Cash 365 earns at 1.5% and $150 back on $500, but its on the AE network and my Platinum card has had the same limit for 3 years. I think it would have been increased automatically already, but the false collections held them back. It's a hardpull otherwise.

Any thoughts? Sorry for all the questions!

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

arkane — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 03:52:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Hi Windrock. Was it a surprise to you when you realized that you had collections on your report?

Just curious.
Oh yes. My dad and I have the same name, except he has no middle name and I do. This is often a cause of confusion. He is going through debt consolidation, so the unpaid doctor bills got matched to my report. Oddly enough, only Experian had them, whereas Transunion and Equifax were fine. Both collection agencies removed my debt the same day I called, and my report is now updated with my middle name and no collections. I'm at a 721 Ex, 735 TU FICO now.

With my student income, I'm essentially looking for the AMEX card for groceries and another general spend card cashback card that I can get a decent CL on.
Citi Doublecash seems popular at 2%, $100 back on $500 and free Equifax FICO scores.
Wells Fargo earns cashback at 1.5% and a $200 back on 1k, seems like they'd take me with their rebranding,.
Captial One Quicksilver earns at 1.5% and $150 back on $500. Pulls all three bureaus but I heard they are good about CLIs.
US Bank Cash 365 earns at 1.5% and $150 back on $500, but its on the AE network and my Platinum card has had the same limit for 3 years. I think it would have been increased automatically already, but the false collections held them back. It's a hardpull otherwise.

Any thoughts? Sorry for all the questions!

Citi, WF, and US Bank are all pretty conservative with limits. Capone not so much but if you get bucketed, good luck ever getting out. So i'd call them a four way tie basically as far as CL is concerned.

Citi DC would obviously be the best % wise but make sure you actually see the $100 after $500 offer in your application page. I don't remember them offering a SUB on the DC. All other 3 I'd pass on.

If getting a good CL is important to you though, I recommend you have a look at BoA's travel rewards. Don't be fooled by the name, it's really just another 1.5% card with a $200 on $1k SUB. You do get a 10% bonus if you redeem it into a BoA checking account making it a slightly better 1.65% card. BoA is pretty generous with limits though, especially after they've gotten to know you for a bit.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 04:11:18 GMT

@Anonymous
Oh yes. My dad and I have the same name, except he has no middle name and I do.

The name curse strikes again!

My suffix is V (my pops is IV) and I have zero regrets not naming my son the VI. It's been a nightmare my entire life.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

arkane — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 04:27:41 GMT

You should've named your son Mark VI.

Re: Thin File -> Thick File

Anonymous — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 13:55:28 GMT

Haha, Mark IV would be pretty original.

I applied for Chase Freedom Unlimited and got approved for 2.5k!! The bonus was $150 on $500 so it was similar to many other cards, but I can begin my relationship with Chase. I didn't feel good about being approved with Capital One Quicksilver with my "new credit" status, and the annual fee wasn't appealing.

I appreciate everyone's help! Now hoping AMEX will take me in a month!