topic Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected.... in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:31:41 GMT

Oh myFICO Guru's.....insight please....dropped 24 points on EX over this period:

810 on 6/8/18 (6/13 re-fi inquiry didn't impact score at that time)

809 on 8/2 (only thing I could find that changed was acct reported $0 and one reported $61???)

803 on 8/9 (seemingly after new CC inquiry total 4....3 in 12 months)

786 on 8/30 (only thing I could find that changed was new CC reporting $0/$5,000)

This was a bit more than I expected but one of many things I've learned here is that what's the purpose of good scores if you can't benefit from them. Took a while to sink in because I worked so hard to get to 800+. Became a bit obsessed with continuing the climb. But I don't expect to need credit for quite some time.

More changes expected as my old MTG has not reported closed and new MTG not reporting to date (Wallet HUB & CK). No utilization issues as I've had less than $200 reporting on 1 of 8 cards for more than 6 months and less than 8% total for revolving for over a year. However, I have the most inquiries on EX with 4. (9/2016, 1/2018 re-activate dormant acct, 6/2018 mtg re-fi, 8/2018 new CC).

As of 8/9 FICO report:

AAoA - 12.5 yr

AoYA - 1.10 yr

AoOA - 22.5 yr

4 inquiries (3 within 12 months)

Score 803

New CC not on 8/9 report. As noted above new MTG not showing yet, assume it will show up in October - (1st pymt due). Old MTG still open on 8/9 report and appears to not have reported closed as of today per TU Wallet Hub.

8/29 received notice of the new CC reporting on EX

8/30 received notice of score decrease 803 to 786 on EX...Ouch!

Last reported balances as of 7/27 with 1% - $61/78K revolving. However, its possible my Aug balances reported to EX but I did not receive an alert yet. (Not showing on TU - Wallet HUB, not sure about other CRA). New utilization for Aug should be $1200/$83,000) 1 card reporting @ 14% utlization.

The change to AAoA should not drop much but now have an AoYA at 0 instead of 1.10 yrs. Will have the new MTG show up with $0 paid instead of 33% paid prior to re-fi.

Open Accts (8/9 report (no aug balance reporting yet)

C1 Savor $61/$9,500 (1 - 30d 1/2012, 1- 60d 2/2012)

C1 Venture 0/$3,950 (1 - 30d 1/2012, 1- 60d 2/2012)

C1 Quick Silver 0/$2,800

C1 Quick Silver 0/$2,100

USB Cash+ 0/$8,800 (will have 1200 report for 8/2018)

WF Pl 0/$25,000

HAPO CU 0/%20,000

Comenity Retail Card 0/$1000

LOC 0/$5,000

_____________

Auto $18,730/$38,400

MTG (not reported closed yet) $124,675/$160,000 (re-fi from 5/1 ARM into conv fixed 2006)

Closed Accts

1 auto pd off early no lates

1 personal loan pd off early no lates

1 store card pd, no lates

Best Buy pd off, (1 - 30d 1/2012, 1 - 60d 2/2012, 1 - 30 12/2012)

Not on report

*New WF Cash Wise as of 8/9, 1st reported on 8/30 - 0/$5,000 (when I received alert for score change 803 to 786)

*New MTG $127,500 (not yet reporting)

No collections, bankruptcies, charge offs – only derogs were lates in the past and those remaining above.

Darn C1 cards that won’t grow (but I don’t use much credit). 3 of 4 are my oldest so I keep them. Got out of CC debt and refuse to go back so I don’t use them much but learned that I need to use them more to keep limits, increase limits and/or get better SL. So I use them more in the last 2 months, but pay down before statement but always let one report with a balance.

Thoughts on rational behind current point loss and expected change when new MTG reports. OLD reports closed?

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:48:51 GMT

Just got this alert for EQ. So I assume the new account is the biggest culprit in my score decrease(s) which scares me due to the future reporting of my new MTG

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

kxkxkxx — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 16:32:42 GMT

I probably missed it on your book report there ...but what was paid off? I see 100% decrease...

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 17:23:15 GMT

It is long, right.. Tried to anticipate all the questions that seem to come up later in a post when an OP asks for feed back to evaluate a score.

The 100% paid off is the $61 noted from the one card that reported a balance 7/27. This is the first indication my C1 cards just reported the 8/27 balances. I rotate cards for AZEO so each card reports a balance within the year.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

HeavenOhio — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 18:34:31 GMT

The biggest thing I see is that you knocked your AoYA down from 1.1yr to zero. Another new account within a short time frame won't do that again.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 17:39:06 GMT

Thanks @HeavenOhio

I sure hope you're right about not receiving an additional ding when my MTG accounts update as closed and new. Since yesterday TU has updated with new account. So EQ loss of 14 and TU loss of 14!

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Anonymous — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 21:59:57 GMT

Just for reference, my AoYA reached 1 year today and my score changed +21 on Ex, +27 on TU and +11 on EQ, resetting AoYA from 1 year+ to zero will definitely have a decent to large impact on your score.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 00:09:04 GMT

Thanks @oldman87

My updates today show that all cards reported zero around the 28th. I suppose part of these decreases are attributed to that. Will be intersting to see what happens when USB reports a balance.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 03:15:58 GMT

@Trudy
The change to AAoA should not drop much but now have an AoYA at 0 instead of 1.10 yrs.

This is the reason right here. 12 months is a major threshold for AoYA. As OM referenced above, scoring can be impacted by 20+ points here. My scores all saw increases of around 20 points back in May when my AoYA moved from 11 months to 12 months. If you were at 13 months and dropped to 0 months, you'd expect to see drops of ~20 points on average from the AoYA change alone, not counting the inquiries or anything else that may have changed. As already mentioned above, if a new account reports now for you with your AoYA already at 0 months (or even if you were at 1 month or 2 months and dropped back to 0) you would not see a further score increase as you're already experiencing the maximum penalty associated with a new account/AoYA.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 03:31:30 GMT

Thanks @brutalbodyshots

So you agree that when my new MTG with $0 pd and closed MTG with 33% pd should not impact my score further?

@HeavenOhio, you and several others have been a great source of solid information, I am concerned about a further decrease when the new MTG reports with $0 pd and old closed, likely in October.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 22:02:27 GMT

@Trudy
So you agree that when my new MTG with $0 pd and closed MTG with 33% pd should not impact my score further?

From an AoYA perspective, that's correct. Keep in mind though that AAoA is also an age of accounts scoring factor that can be impacted from the opening of a new account. The third and final age of accounts factor, AoOA cannot be impacted by adding a new account.

This being said, if your AAoA drops across a threshold from a new account reporting, you could see a slight score drop. If you do see a score drop, that's most likely the reason. Then you'd have to determine your before/after AAoA and try and figure out the threshold point, as those aren't well documented. Many people feel they could be at whole numbers of years (converted to months) so for example 48 months, 60 months, 72 months, etc. The mid-points may be thresholds as well, but maybe not every single one... 54 months, 66 months, etc. I know for sure on my profile that 78 months was one (6.5 years) although the crossing of that point only constituted a 4 point impact.

Example: Perhaps you figure that your AAoA drops from 64 months to 57 months from the addition of another account to your CR. Maybe your score goes down 7 points from this. You may theorize that the threshold is at 60 months. If that's the case, in 3 months your now 57 month AAoA would be up to 60 months and those 7 points may (and probably would) return. If they didn't return, you know that in another 4 months you'll be back to 64 months where you were originally, so no later than that time you'd get those 7 points back.

Hopefully that is helpful.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 23:18:21 GMT

Thanks @BrutalBodyShots. It does help.

Although I know each person may have a different profile, creating different thresholds, I assume (maybe falsely) with an AAoA of 12.5 yrs, this new acct reducing it to 11.9 yrs, that this is enough above "a" threshold that it should not cause a change. I will watch closely and provide an update.

I know my previous AoYA was 1.10 yrs, the next youngest 1.11 yrs. Wonder if crossing 2 years will have an impact. At the same time I will have an inquiry from 9/2016 drop from each CRA, 2 from TU. May be difficult to determine what may cause changes in the next month or 2.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Anonymous — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 01:47:55 GMT

@Trudy
Although I know each person may have a different profile, creating different thresholds, I assume (maybe falsely) with an AAoA of 12.5 yrs, this new acct reducing it to 11.9 yrs, that this is enough above "a" threshold that it should not cause a change. I will watch closely and provide an update.

I know my previous AoYA was 1.10 yrs, the next youngest 1.11 yrs. Wonder if crossing 2 years will have an impact. At the same time I will have an inquiry from 9/2016 drop from each CRA, 2 from TU. May be difficult to determine what may cause changes in the next month or 2.

If you AAoA is going to be > 8 years both before/after the addition of a new account to your CR, I agree that there would be no scoring change associated with the AAoA drop. Essentially everything above 8 years from what I've come to understand is gravy.

Regarding AoYA and the 2 year mark, I think it's possible that a few points could be obtained at that point, but that amount would be far diminished to the biggest bump which comes at the 1 year mark.

As far as inquiries go, keep in mind that they become unscoreable after 365 days, even though they stay on your report for 2 years. Your inquiry from 9/2016 that is due to come off will have no impact on your score at all. What you should look to however are any inquiries you took on from 9/2017 to present, as crossing 365 days in age on any of those could positively impact your score as they become unscorable.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 05:12:33 GMT

Thanks @BrutalBodyShots. You have been a wealth of information.

It seems my extra inquiries on EX, 3 within 12 months is a theshhold for my profile as 3 seemed to move me from very good to fair in inquiries after the 3rd (per creditscore.com) and possibly impacted my sore. So I assume (again, maybe falsely) that the # of inquiries impact my profile, possibly because I've not ever had more than 3 within 12 months but have seen many post with well above 3 that seemingly didn't impact them (maybe no new acct resulting from inquiries).

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 03:17:51 GMT

Don't get too caught up in the "fair" verses "good" stuff that you see from CMS software. It's all fluff and designed to dumb things down for people. Going from 2 inquires to 3 may take someone from "good" to "fair" but could potentially have no impact at all on their credit scores.

The best way to know how many points you'll gain from an inquiry hitting the 1 year mark is to note how many points you lose (if any) when you take on the inquiry. If you lose 5 points from an inquiry, you'll gain back those 5 points 365 days later.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 14:43:12 GMT

Just thought I'd provide an update. I falsely assumed the 14 -17 pt loss I received across all 3 CRA was due to the new account, resetting my AoYA to 0. Apparently that did not impact me somehow. I rotate cards for AZEO and the one reported paid before the other reported a balance. My scores dropped when that account reported paid and I had no revolvers reporting a balance.

So far, TU and EX returned all of those points once the other account reported a balance.

So I believe someone noted in this thread that I should not expect 'another' ding when my new MTG reports. Since I seemingly wasn't dinged for the new CC that already reported I suppose now I will be for my new MTG?

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Anonymous — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 17:02:17 GMT

If you had a new account report already, assuming the account opening date is correct your AoYA should be figured based on the age. This many times is 1 month, as by the time a new account reports the 1st of the following month (after the opening date listed on the account) has passed. Typical AoYA drops from a new account being added are going to fall to the 0-2 month range, with 1 month probably being the most common just based on the amount of time it typically takes a new account to report on average.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 17:43:03 GMT

@BrutalBodyShots

I read, stepped away and re-read and for some reason I'm not understanding...

The new CC reported in late August with the correct opening date of 8/9 (8/1 on EX), before I received an alert my score dropped 17 points. So I thought the score drop that came the next day was a result of that. But apparently not. My new MTG will likely not report until October, maybe even November as my 1st payment is not due until October and my credit reports still show the outstanding balance from my old MTG, which is paid, but has not been reported nor updated since 8/6 (I closed on the re-fi on 8/7). I am wondering since it doesn't appear I took a hit for a new account reporting, should I expect a hit once the MTG reports?

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Trudy — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 17:45:08 GMT

Oh, I think I get what you're saying now. I guess I was looking for an answer in there regarding whether I should expect a hit when the MTG reports.

Re: Ouch...Score dropped more than I expected....

Anonymous — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 18:04:43 GMT

You would not expect a hit related to AoYA, as your AoYA is currently 1 month and at most will be 2 months when your next new account reports. A drop from 1-2 months AoYA to 0 months will not result in a score drop. Any penalty you're experiencing from AoYA drop is already in place from your last account that reported in August. AAoA is a different factor that may or may not cross a threshold when it is reduced from the new account being added. You'd have to compute your before/after though to try and gauge any potential impact there.