topic Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Should I close my OLDEST CC?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:03:00 GMT

Hi All,

Should I close my Oldest (Active account)?... I have 14 years total in credit but this Card is my oldest (ACTIVE)/(OPEN)

Best Buy (5 years) CL-$1000 Balance $0... (I ralrey use this card...I don't shop a BB that much anymore)

Should I dump this? I mean I could try a CLI to bump my Ratio/Untlization% up, But would it be wise to dump this one and get another card in its place that has a better reward?, or should I keep it and use it once and a while to get small things to keep my credit age up?

I have 6 Total accounts open

Auto - Current

Discover-IT- Unscured- $1800-Limit -Balance $0 -Age 7mo.

Chase Card - $10,000 Limit -Balance $0 age 2 years

Walmart - $200 Limit - Balance $0 Age 1 week

Best Buy - $1000 Limit (Was Deniled last year 2-17-208 for CLI) Balance $0 5Yrs

WellsFargo $3500 Limit - Balance $2945 Age- 1 year

Let me know youur thoughts!

THANKS EVERYONE THESE FOURMS HAVE TAUGHT ME ALOT!!!

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

xaximus — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:07:58 GMT

I would highly recommend to keep it open, throw a small charge on it and set it to auto-pay. I would not close it unless you absolutely need to. Even though it'll stay on your CR for 10 years after closing, I would leave it for now.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:19:20 GMT

Thanks for the input! I was leaning towards keeping it, just tossing a few tiny things on it /Christmas gifts each year on it and then PIF after.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

xaximus — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:36:57 GMT

That's a good idea. I have a small checklist that I go through if I wanna keep a card or close -

1 - AF or no AF
2 - any special benefits that no other card I currently have provides?
3 - age
4 - can it be pc'd or combined
5 - credit limit and how often it has grown

I usually go through that checklist - if it has an AF, that alone is an indication that I would like to PC or close it. I always mention that when I'm speaking to a CSR. I have been able to get the AF waived before.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:49:57 GMT

I have a question for ya! ...Do you feel using your Credit cards to pay your general bills is good? Or using them each month for bills would mess up your UTI?

For example... We have all our Bills Elc/Cell/Water/Gas/Cable and so fourth auto paid but with our Checking account(which does nothing for your credit).. Would it be wise to set some of them to be Auto takin out of a Credit Card (with has a big enough limited already on it so you're not maxing it out each month)...and then just have the Credit card Autopay from the checking account that way the Card is being used and its payed off and I could get a CLI by doing this/showing good payments.. or Is doing this just a waste of an extra step? Because Im already on Autopay with all my bills but would it be wise to Autopay with Credit card and then Auto from my Checking account.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:50:08 GMT

It looks like your oldest CC is 3+ years older than your next oldest. Based on that, I'd keep it open. If not, in 10 years you would probably experience some sort of score drop (hard to say how much) when your AoOA drops from 15 years to 12 years.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

rbentley — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:53:30 GMT

@xaximus wrote:
I would highly recommend to keep it open, throw a small charge on it and set it to auto-pay. I would not close it unless you absolutely need to. Even though it'll stay on your CR for 10 years after closing, I would leave it for now.

Why do you recommend keeping it open? It will continue to age and contribute to his AAoA for 7-10 years. I am considering doing much the same thing and am interested in why I might want to keep it open. Mine has an AF and a small CL that is not growing.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

xaximus — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 16:55:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I have a question for ya! ...Do you feel using your Credit cards to pay your general bills is good? Or using them each month for bills would mess up your UTI?
For example... We have all our Bills Elc/Cell/Water/Gas/Cable and so fourth auto paid but with our Checking account(which does nothing for your credit).. Would it be wise to set some of them to be Auto takin out of a Credit Card (with has a big enough limited already on it so you're not maxing it out each month)...and then just have the Credit card Autopay from the checking account that way the Card is being used and its payed off and I could get a CLI by doing this/showing good payments.. or Is doing this just a waste of an extra step? Because Im already on Autopay with all my bills but would it be wise to Autopay with Credit card and then Auto from my Checking account.

Personally - that is exactly what I do. For any and all bills that do not charge an extra fee for paying by credit card, I put on CC's, then have them auto-pay on either statement dates, or due dates. This way, I have either CB/Points/Miles always accumulating at all times. At one point, I was getting about 10k-20k in points on one card ( I used it as a daily driver and had a few bills hitting so it was around ~1k a month going through it easily in a month). With those points, I got 2 free flights. So it mostly definitely is worth it. Just make sure you can an eye on your bills/charges and make sure there's no discrepencies.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

xaximus — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:00:39 GMT

@rbentley wrote:
@xaximus wrote:
I would highly recommend to keep it open, throw a small charge on it and set it to auto-pay. I would not close it unless you absolutely need to. Even though it'll stay on your CR for 10 years after closing, I would leave it for now.
Why do you recommend keeping it open? It will continue to age and contribute to his AAoA for 7-10 years. I am considering doing much the same thing and am interested in why I might want to keep it open. Mine has an AF and a small CL that is not growing.

In the OP's situation - I would keep it open for several reasons. One being age, two being that there's no AF, so there's no loss in leaving it open, it's helping his AAoA and with his other cards being quite a bit younger, that card has a bigger effect.

In your case - since you have an AF, small CL and not growing, I would definitely see what options you have - possibly try to PC to a non-AF card, not sure on the age of account or AAoA so unable to comment on that. I would definitely speak to a CSR to see what is available to PC too, what can be done about the AF, sometimes CSR's have the ability to waive it.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:04:53 GMT

FANTASIC NEWS! THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR!, I mean its a loop hole I think we all miss. You make complete sense on what your saying...You're already gonna pay the bills anyways why not just set up them on Auto and reek the points! Thanks my Friend!!

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

rbentley — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:34:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
It looks like your oldest CC is 3+ years older than your next oldest. Based on that, I'd keep it open. If not, in 10 years you would probably experience some sort of score drop (hard to say how much) when your AoOA drops from 15 years to 12 years.

Is there data points for a score drop if you have at least 10 years of AoOA? Didn't you achieve a perfect 850 with an AAoA of only 7 years? What was your AoOA when you had that score?

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

staticvoidmain — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:41:24 GMT

Put it in the sock drawer. Doing the math, I'd keep it just because of it's age relative to your other cards and your total credit history.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

xaximus — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 19:20:47 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
FANTASIC NEWS! THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR!, I mean its a loop hole I think we all miss. You make complete sense on what your saying...You're already gonna pay the bills anyways why not just set up them on Auto and reek the points! Thanks my Friend!!

You're welcome. I'm always learning new things as well, if I knew what I know today 5-10 years ago, I'd have made some smarter choices and been in a completely different situation today. But as always, live and learn!

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 19:48:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
FANTASIC NEWS! THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR!, I mean its a loop hole I think we all miss. You make complete sense on what your saying...You're already gonna pay the bills anyways why not just set up them on Auto and reek the points! Thanks my Friend!!

It's not exactly a loop hole (and we certainly don't all miss it!). The question comes up regularly and it always surprises me why people think paying a bill with a credit card is any different from making any other on-line purchase with a credit card. (Or even sending in the bill with the cc information filled in...)

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

topgunvf — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 21:20:52 GMT

@xaximus wrote:
That's a good idea. I have a small checklist that I go through if I wanna keep a card or close -

1 - AF or no AF
2 - any special benefits that no other card I currently have provides?
3 - age
4 - can it be pc'd or combined
5 - credit limit and how often it has grown

I usually go through that checklist - if it has an AF, that alone is an indication that I would like to PC or close it. I always mention that when I'm speaking to a CSR. I have been able to get the AF waived before.

+ 1,000

If no AF, NO Harm No Foul. Keep the card and let the good payment history BUUIIILLLDDDD!

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 23:04:28 GMT

@rbentley wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
It looks like your oldest CC is 3+ years older than your next oldest. Based on that, I'd keep it open. If not, in 10 years you would probably experience some sort of score drop (hard to say how much) when your AoOA drops from 15 years to 12 years.
Is there data points for a score drop if you have at least 10 years of AoOA? Didn't you achieve a perfect 850 with an AAoA of only 7 years? What was your AoOA when you had that score?

BBS is talking about AoOA (Age of Oldest Account). That's a very different scoring factor from AAoA (Average Age of Accounts).

It's well established that people continue to get a benefit as their Age of Oldest continues to go up well past 12. My profile was perfect (zero inquiries, Age of Youngest Account > 13 months, several cards, loans at < 8% utilization, AZEO, etc.) but I did not hit 850 until my oldest account was 17 years old. Even then that only happened at one bureau. My guess is that it's possible to get scoring benefit (for people with scores less than 850) until at least an Age of Oldest of 20.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

rbentley — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 22:58:40 GMT

I clearly referred to AoOA and also AAoA. My question remains if there is any score drop if your AoOA drops but stays above 10 years. I was curious about his AoOA when he hit 850 since he has referenced his AAoA being less than 8 years at that time.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 23:14:06 GMT

Hi RB. The thing that misled me was your emphasis on his AAoA. It sounded like you didn't realize that the scoring benefit one might get from AoOA is completely separate from whatever you might get from AAoA. Therefore whatever the breakpoints might be for AAoA ("Didn't you achieve a perfect 850 with an AAoA of only 7 years?") wouldn't allow you to infer what they are for AoOA. To be honest it still sounds like you think that you can infer one from the other.

I do feel like I gave you some feedback about AoOA specifically, but it sounds like you'd like to hear directly from BBS, so I will look forward to hearing your conversation with him.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

rbentley — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 23:20:41 GMT

CGID, I'm sorry if I came across as contentious in my last post. It was not my intent. Your explanation to me was very politely worded. My initial response was not worded very well at all. I do recognize the difference between a AAoA and AoOA and that you can't infer much about one from the other.. I am just in the midst of reading another thread on here where BBS was soliciting data points of the youngest age that someone had reached a perfect 850 and his theorizing that you needed an AoOA of 15 to 17 years to reach that. I am still curious of what score drop you might encounter going from a AoOA of 15 years down to 13 years. I think it would likely be pretty minimal.

Re: Should I close my OLDEST CC?

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 23:41:45 GMT

No problem, buddy!

The thing is that we just don't have a lot of test data on this. What we'd need is skilled FICO testers (people who know how to carefully control for other factors and who really like this stuff as a hobby) but who also have an oldest account that is (say) 18 years old (and closed), about to fall off, and who's next oldest account is (say) 13 years old -- and who have had enough foresight to carefully pull their scores just before and just after the 18 year old account fell off. Even still we'd need to somehow take into account the drop in AAoA.

It's really hard to find such a person, because typically experienced FICO junkies don't have an 18 year old closed account on their report that will soon be falling off and which is their oldest account.

What we can do is make some provisional inferences based on when people get an 850, and then assume that the AoOA benefit extends at least a few years further than that (for people with scores under 849).

Another elegant testing device would be for a person with an AAoA > 8.0 and an AoOA of 13 to add an AU account of precisely 18 years. If there was an immediate but fairly small increase that would support your conjecture that AoOA benefit is small after 13 (say).