topic Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older? in Understanding FICO® Scoring

Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 14:30:02 GMT

I've searched these forums and couldn't find an answer...

At what years on the 7 path do these negatives start counting less on your overall score ?

3, 4, 5, 6?

Thx!!

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:40:16 GMT

There are 2 other variables here that need to be known outside of the element of time:

1 - How many negatives

2 - The severity of them

The answer to your question would be very different if you're talking a person having a single 30 day late payment verses a different person that has multiple major negative items (90+ day late, collection, etc).

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:51:43 GMT

Thank you for the response.. multiple past 90 day Medical Bill's... 4 to 5 yrs old each not paid

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

RobertEG — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 23:42:24 GMT

If you have a debt that is still delinquent, as is apparently the case as you state that the debt is still unpaid, then the creditor can, at any time, update their reporting to show a current status that it remains delinquent.

That means that the delinquency period has extended.

That will result in increased level of delinquency since initial delinquency, with negative scoring effect.

Contrasting that with the scoring of prior reported delinquencies where the debt has been paid, payment terminates the delinquency status of the debt, and thus fixes the highest level of delinquency. It is only then that the delinquency scoring begins to age, with decreased scoring impact.

Stated differently, if the debt remains delinquent, negative impact increases, not decreases, as updates are made.

The period since initial delinquency continues to increase until the account is brought out of delinquency status.

"Derogs getting older" only produces score improvement when the delinquency has terminated.

Otherwise, the "derogs get longer/greater" and their negative impact increases.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Queen_Etherea — Fri, 21 Sep 2018 04:51:09 GMT

Omg this explains why my scores are so low! I have an old account in collections (set to come off in October) but the status is current. Those jerks update it every single month, even after 7 years 🙄 I kept reading that old collections don’t really have an impact, but it makes sense now.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Revelate — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 12:12:39 GMT

@Queen_Etherea wrote:
Omg this explains why my scores are so low! I have an old account in collections (set to come off in October) but the status is current. Those jerks update it every single month, even after 7 years 🙄 I kept reading that old collections don’t really have an impact, but it makes sense now.

Sadly old collections carry full weight except if they fall under one of the newer FICO model guidelines:

FICO 8: any collection under $100 is discounted

FICO 9: any paid collection is discounted

Beyond that though, collections bucket you similarly to tax liens and BK's frankly, and as such they penalize you for the entire time they are on there.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Miner — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 03:19:01 GMT

Well I was going to post how severe negatives weigh on your credit scores until they fall off, imposing a ceiling on their growth. Which is unlike 30 day lates whose effects lessen with time. Then I noticed the OP's other post saying they were medical collections. If I remember right, medical collections once paid, are handled differently than other collections and won't have as long of a negative impact as say credit card accounts. Or am I remembering this wrong? It's been several years since I had one.

But any account that is not paid, even if the account hasn't been freshened in the last year, as long as it reports unpaid with a balance, will really tank your scores.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Revelate — Sun, 23 Sep 2018 07:14:05 GMT

@Miner wrote:
If I remember right, medical collections once paid, are handled differently than other collections and won't have as long of a negative impact as say credit card accounts. Or am I remembering this wrong? It's been several years since I had one.

But any account that is not paid, even if the account hasn't been freshened in the last year, as long as it reports unpaid with a balance, will really tank your scores.

Yeah, medical collections are handled differently under FICO 9: not given as much weight.

FICO 8 and earlier still same as normal CA's to my knowledge. There aren't that many lenders using FICO 9 but enough are out there that one could target them if medical collections are the only thing holding one back.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Queen_Etherea — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 17:36:47 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@Queen_Etherea wrote:
Omg this explains why my scores are so low! I have an old account in collections (set to come off in October) but the status is current. Those jerks update it every single month, even after 7 years 🙄 I kept reading that old collections don’t really have an impact, but it makes sense now.
Sadly old collections carry full weight except if they fall under one of the newer FICO model guidelines:

FICO 8: any collection under $100 is discounted
FICO 9: any paid collection is discounted

Beyond that though, collections bucket you similarly to tax liens and BK's frankly, and as such they penalize you for the entire time they are on there.

Yeah I have 2 collections and both are medical. One is for $80, which I paid a few weeks ago, but it hasn't updated yet, and the other is for $1,600. I'm guessing the $80 one isn't doing any damage, but that $1,600 one is hurting for sure. That's the one that says "open" on my reports. Oh well... one more month and it'll be gone.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Revelate — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 02:02:01 GMT

@Queen_Etherea wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@Queen_Etherea wrote:
Omg this explains why my scores are so low! I have an old account in collections (set to come off in October) but the status is current. Those jerks update it every single month, even after 7 years 🙄 I kept reading that old collections don’t really have an impact, but it makes sense now.
Sadly old collections carry full weight except if they fall under one of the newer FICO model guidelines:

FICO 8: any collection under $100 is discounted
FICO 9: any paid collection is discounted

Beyond that though, collections bucket you similarly to tax liens and BK's frankly, and as such they penalize you for the entire time they are on there.
Yeah I have 2 collections and both are medical. One is for $80, which I paid a few weeks ago, but it hasn't updated yet, and the other is for $1,600. I'm guessing the $80 one isn't doing any damage, but that $1,600 one is hurting for sure. That's the one that says "open" on my reports. Oh well... one more month and it'll be gone.

Nice! Chance that $1600 one might be outside your state's SOL anyway; however, if those are your only two negatives there's a good chance you'll get a non-trivial bump on both FICO 8 and FICO 9 though the paid collection will still depress your mortgage scores for a while.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Queen_Etherea — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:13:17 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@Queen_Etherea wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@Queen_Etherea wrote:
Omg this explains why my scores are so low! I have an old account in collections (set to come off in October) but the status is current. Those jerks update it every single month, even after 7 years 🙄 I kept reading that old collections don’t really have an impact, but it makes sense now.
Sadly old collections carry full weight except if they fall under one of the newer FICO model guidelines:

FICO 8: any collection under $100 is discounted
FICO 9: any paid collection is discounted

Beyond that though, collections bucket you similarly to tax liens and BK's frankly, and as such they penalize you for the entire time they are on there.
Yeah I have 2 collections and both are medical. One is for $80, which I paid a few weeks ago, but it hasn't updated yet, and the other is for $1,600. I'm guessing the $80 one isn't doing any damage, but that $1,600 one is hurting for sure. That's the one that says "open" on my reports. Oh well... one more month and it'll be gone.
Nice! Chance that $1600 one might be outside your state's SOL anyway; however, if those are your only two negatives there's a good chance you'll get a non-trivial bump on both FICO 8 and FICO 9 though the paid collection will still depress your mortgage scores for a while.

I got a nice 9 point bump from having 2 accounts with 120+ late payments deleted yesterday! My mortgage scores are the ones I'm going to be most concerned about next year as we want to buy a house. I've also mentioned before that the whole reason I even started paying attention to my credit was because I wanted a boob job lol, but I think at this point in time, a house is more important. Can't live under those new boobies! I don't know how much my scores will go up once that $80 account is deleted later next year, but I hope it's enough! My boyfriend has good credit, so we should be ok.

Also, the SOL in my state (CA) is 4 years, so we're way past that on all my accounts.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Revelate — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 19:13:11 GMT

Congrats on the deletion of the 120D's!

Joint mortgage apps take the lower of the two tri-merge pull mid-scores... basically whoever has the worse credit score, is the one they underwrite on.

I'd post the $80 collection in Rebuilding if you haven't already, worth some effort to get it off if you can if we're talking mortgage underwriting in the future.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Queen_Etherea — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 15:35:07 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
Congrats on the deletion of the 120D's!

Joint mortgage apps take the lower of the two tri-merge pull mid-scores... basically whoever has the worse credit score, is the one they underwrite on.

I'd post the $80 collection in Rebuilding if you haven't already, worth some effort to get it off if you can if we're talking mortgage underwriting in the future.

I did not know that! I need to start reading up on the this whole mortgage thing as I'm completely clueless to the entire process.

As for the $80 collections, I'm leaving it alone. I've posted about it before, but I think it's best to just let it fall off when it does. Only because I have other accounts (largest one $30,000) with that same collection agency that aren't reporting for some reason. They only reported the $80 one. I'm not about to go poking that nest... I read that medical collections under $100 aren't even factored into your score, and paid medical collections aren't either. One was for FICO 8 and one for FICO 9, can't remember which one, but definitely read it somewhere lol.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:30:04 GMT

It's the more recent FICO 9 that doesn't count those things, where the older FICO 8 does.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Revelate — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 00:23:54 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
It's the more recent FICO 9 that doesn't count those things, where the older FICO 8 does.

Yup (well almost, FICO 8 would ignore it because the collection is <$100) but none of those scores are used for mortgage underwriting:

FICO 98 and 04 (EX, and EQ / TU respectively) any collection of any size regardless of paid or not it counts to be explicit.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

sjt — Sat, 06 Oct 2018 00:56:08 GMT

@Queen_Etherea wrote:
Omg this explains why my scores are so low! I have an old account in collections (set to come off in October) but the status is current. Those jerks update it every single month, even after 7 years 🙄 I kept reading that old collections don’t really have an impact, but it makes sense now.

Collections cant report after 7 years from the DOFD.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Revelate — Sat, 06 Oct 2018 13:32:28 GMT

@sjt wrote:
@Queen_Etherea wrote:
Omg this explains why my scores are so low! I have an old account in collections (set to come off in October) but the status is current. Those jerks update it every single month, even after 7 years 🙄 I kept reading that old collections don’t really have an impact, but it makes sense now.
Collections cant report after 7 years from the DOFD.

That's actually a good point: if you can figure out what your DOFD is (when you first missed a payment, typically the month before the 30D late got reported if it was from a tradeline for example) if it's either wrong or clearly out of bounds, it's a silly easy dispute to get that deleted.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Queen_Etherea — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:06:57 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
@sjt wrote:
@Queen_Etherea wrote:
Omg this explains why my scores are so low! I have an old account in collections (set to come off in October) but the status is current. Those jerks update it every single month, even after 7 years 🙄 I kept reading that old collections don’t really have an impact, but it makes sense now.
Collections cant report after 7 years from the DOFD.
That's actually a good point: if you can figure out what your DOFD is (when you first missed a payment, typically the month before the 30D late got reported if it was from a tradeline for example) if it's either wrong or clearly out of bounds, it's a silly easy dispute to get that deleted.

Well, it shows 60 days in December, so wouldn't the DoFD be Novemeber? I thought the date was Oct., but I guess not. The only CRA that won't delete it is EX. EQ just deleted it by themselves, and I did a dispute with TU. Whatevs! All I know is it will for sure come off by the end of the year LOL.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

sjt — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:14:09 GMT

Contact Experian and ask what date they show the DOFD that led to the 60 day late and see when they will delete it.

Also, if EQ deleted it then there is a good chance that the others might follow.

Re: Points- How Many as Derogatory gets older?

Queen_Etherea — Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:30:08 GMT

@sjt wrote:
Contact Experian and ask what date they show the DOFD that led to the 60 day late and see when they will delete it.

Also, if EQ deleted it then there is a good chance that the others might follow.

I've contacted them so many times over the past few months, so what's one more time? LOL They keep telling me it won't delete until Dec or Jan, but on the EX report from the free annual report thing, it shows on record until October!

I thought FOR SURE 100% without a doubt, that EQ would be the last one to delete this collection account. TU was the easiest because they just deleted everything a few months ago when I called.

EQ won't delete those old student loan accounts, though. At least, not until December. EX and TU deleted those long ago as well. TU is my only "clean" report at the moment and it's obviously my highest score at 686. Now, I'm just working on my UTI to bring my scores up as that's the only thing holding me back. Well, that and letting my new accounts age.